Team Canada Basketball Thread V4.0

[gp2015]

So what happens going forward with the coaching situation? Surely Jordi probably will quit as he'll want to concentrate more on his NBA gig. Who would they replace him with? Jama Mahlalela or is he not big enough name to attract NBA commitment (and lack of international coaching experience)? Or do they go to the previous route and just hire the Raptors head coach like they did with Nurse and hire Darko?

I think we need to look at FIBA coach. After the fallout of this Olympic, despite not having a complete and balanced roster, our system and organization is the most to blame imo. Our system is give SGA the ball, space the floor as much as possible and let him cook, that's style of play is specifically ineffective in FIBA because of the 3seconds rule and smaller court and it really affects SGA in major ways. Basically all our guards dribble too much and don't know what to do or where to go, that's not understanding what's translates and what doesn't in FIBA.

I know Jamal Murray is the punching bag right now but SGA also really didn't meet the moment, also missed 3 crucial FTs. Hopefully we can build from here and have all the guys back for the next World Cup. I feel like we have a long way to go...sure we need real talent in the frontcourt but we also need a system that can work to our players' strength and in FIBA

SGA was the least to blame for the loss. Sure he missed a couple of free throws at the end but he was pretty gassed from carrying the load on offense.

Not sure how you can say he didn't really 'meet the moment'. It was basically him and RJ, who contributed in the second half.

I would say SGA needed a lot more help. Murray was 3-13 and Brooks was 1-9. You're not winning anything with two of your main guys shooting like that.

[mkot]

So what happens going forward with the coaching situation? Surely Jordi probably will quit as he'll want to concentrate more on his NBA gig. Who would they replace him with? Jama Mahlalela or is he not big enough name to attract NBA commitment (and lack of international coaching experience)? Or do they go to the previous route and just hire the Raptors head coach like they did with Nurse and hire Darko?

I think we need to look at FIBA coach. After the fallout of this Olympic, despite not having a complete and balanced roster, our system and organization is the most to blame imo. Our system is give SGA the ball, space the floor as much as possible and let him cook, that's style of play is specifically ineffective in FIBA because of the 3seconds rule and smaller court and it really affects SGA in major ways. Basically all our guards dribble too much and don't know what to do or where to go, that's not understanding what's translates and what doesn't in FIBA.

I know Jamal Murray is the punching bag right now but SGA also really didn't meet the moment, also missed 3 crucial FTs. Hopefully we can build from here and have all the guys back for the next World Cup. I feel like we have a long way to go...sure we need real talent in the frontcourt but we also need a system that can work to our players' strength and in FIBA

SGA was the least to blame for the loss. Sure he missed a couple of free throws at the end but he was pretty gassed from carrying the load on offense.

Not sure how you can say he didn't really 'meet the moment'. It was basically him and RJ, who contributed in the second half.

I would say SGA needed a lot more help. Murray was 3-13 and Brooks was 1-9. You're not winning anything with two of your main guys shooting like that.

I'm not blaming this on SGA, if you read my first point regarding the system we are running, it's directly related to how ineffective he was in late game situation and it isn't on him. It's on the coach to put the right pieces around him to supplement his offense. At one point when we were trying to come from behind we had Lyles and Powell out there killing the spacing, leaving SGA with no choice but to dribble into 4 defenders trying to draw foul. The court is already smaller, and teams can pack the paint in FIBA because there's no 3 seconds rule, iso is ineffective in FIBA and this specifically affect Shai's game and we literally had nothing to fall back on aside from SGA iso ball

This isn't a knock on Shai, it's the style we choose to play and I don't like it because it doesn't translate well in FIBA that's all I'm saying. I did say he didn't meet the moment and I feel very strongly about this. I think he didn't meet the moment either when OKC had a chance to go up 3-2 aginst the Mavs and in G6. That's an whole other issue with the way the OKC play down the stretch and some flaws in Shai's game that I'm not going into it but he is still very young, as great as Shai is and even LeBron, Steph, Giannis, Jokic, these guys had to go through trial after trial and learn how to win games taht matter in clutch time until they are at their late 20s.

[gp2015]

I think we need to look at FIBA coach. After the fallout of this Olympic, despite not having a complete and balanced roster, our system and organization is the most to blame imo. Our system is give SGA the ball, space the floor as much as possible and let him cook, that's style of play is specifically ineffective in FIBA because of the 3seconds rule and smaller court and it really affects SGA in major ways. Basically all our guards dribble too much and don't know what to do or where to go, that's not understanding what's translates and what doesn't in FIBA.

I know Jamal Murray is the punching bag right now but SGA also really didn't meet the moment, also missed 3 crucial FTs. Hopefully we can build from here and have all the guys back for the next World Cup. I feel like we have a long way to go...sure we need real talent in the frontcourt but we also need a system that can work to our players' strength and in FIBA

SGA was the least to blame for the loss. Sure he missed a couple of free throws at the end but he was pretty gassed from carrying the load on offense.

Not sure how you can say he didn't really 'meet the moment'. It was basically him and RJ, who contributed in the second half.

I would say SGA needed a lot more help. Murray was 3-13 and Brooks was 1-9. You're not winning anything with two of your main guys shooting like that.

I'm not blaming this on SGA, if you read my first point regarding the system we are running, it's directly related to how ineffective he was in late game situation and it isn't on him. It's on the coach to put the right pieces around him to supplement his offense. At one point when we were trying to come from behind we had Lyles and Powell out there killing the spacing, leaving SGA with no choice but to dribble into 4 defenders trying to draw foul. The court is already smaller, and teams can pack the paint in FIBA because there's no 3 seconds rule, iso is ineffective in FIBA and this specifically affect Shai's game and we literally had nothing to fall back on aside from SGA iso ball

This isn't a knock on Shai, it's the style we choose to play and I don't like it because it doesn't translate well in FIBA that's all I'm saying. I did say he didn't meet the moment and I feel very strongly about this. I think he didn't meet the moment either when OKC had a chance to go up 3-2 aginst the Mavs and in G6. That's an whole other issue with the way the OKC play down the stretch and some flaws in Shai's game that I'm not going into it but he is still very young, as great as Shai is and even LeBron, Steph, Giannis, Jokic, these guys had to go through trial after trial and learn how to win games taht matter in clutch time until they are at their late 20s.

Fair enough.

[Randle McMurphy]

Canada doesn’t even win a single game in that tournament without SGA and would have lost by 30+ to France without him. He really couldn’t have done much more than he did and this program needs to do whatever it can to keep him happy and committed going forward.

[gp2015]

SGA did all he could to keep us in the game. Sure, he missed a couple of three throws but you can't expect anyone to be perfect.

Jokic is the best player in the league, won a championship and has all the experience in the world of playing in big games but even he was gassed, made mistakes and didn't shoot well at the end of the Wolves playoff series.

[Chalky_White]

One underdiscussed flaw in the roster was the lack of shooting. Everyone focuses on the lack of size, which is true, but the lack of shooting was almost just as big of a problem. Combining lack of size with lack of shooting is a death knell for most teams, and it ultimately bit this team in the end.

Brooks, Barrett, and Dort had decent tournaments overall, but they're streaky shooters who leave you vulnerable to droughts on offense. We saw that last World Cup in the loss against Brazil and now against France in Paris.

Going forward a solution could be starting Mathurin on the wing next to RJ. Mathurin's jumper demands respect and he's growing into being an alpha scorer, the kind who beasts on the FIBA stage.

Even a guy like Caleb Houstan would be a decent addition considering he's been a consistent outside threat for Orlando. But it's clear the program has to put more of an emphasis on shooting going forward and not just athleticism.

[Kingsway_fan]

Should we be concerned about the Kelly acquisition after this Olympics run?

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He averaged 1.5 PPG and 9 minutes with FG 16.7% in 4 Olympic games.

Yes.

It's not just that. He was getting abused on defense... brutal... totally unplayable.

[Hair Canada]

One underdiscussed flaw in the roster was the lack of shooting. Everyone focuses on the lack of size, which is true, but the lack of shooting was almost just as big of a problem. Combining lack of size with lack of shooting is a death knell for most teams, and it ultimately bit this team in the end.

Brooks, Barrett, and Dort had decent tournaments overall, but they're streaky shooters who leave you vulnerable to droughts on offense. We saw that last World Cup in the loss against Brazil and now against France in Paris.

Going forward a solution could be starting Mathurin on the wing next to RJ. Mathurin's jumper demands respect and he's growing into being an alpha scorer, the kind who beasts on the FIBA stage.

Even a guy like Caleb Houstan would be a decent addition considering he's been a consistent outside threat for Orlando. But it's clear the program has to put more of an emphasis on shooting going forward and not just athleticism.

Mathurin right now is a horrible defensive player, who mainly excels in driving to the basket (not very efficiently yet), doesn't pass well, and is a streaky 3-point shooter (34% for his NBA career). Hardly a good fit next to Barrett (also a mediocre defender who likes to drive). Things can change in 3 years, but right now Mathurin hasn't shown anything that would instill confidence he should get a starting role for Team Canada over the likes of Dort and Brooks, who are far superior defenders and are not worse shooters (Brooks was tremendous in last year's WC and Mathurin would be lucky to ever have this kind of influence for Team Canada).

[kwajo]

One underdiscussed flaw in the roster was the lack of shooting. Everyone focuses on the lack of size, which is true, but the lack of shooting was almost just as big of a problem. Combining lack of size with lack of shooting is a death knell for most teams, and it ultimately bit this team in the end.

Brooks, Barrett, and Dort had decent tournaments overall, but they're streaky shooters who leave you vulnerable to droughts on offense. We saw that last World Cup in the loss against Brazil and now against France in Paris.

Going forward a solution could be starting Mathurin on the wing next to RJ. Mathurin's jumper demands respect and he's growing into being an alpha scorer, the kind who beasts on the FIBA stage.

Even a guy like Caleb Houstan would be a decent addition considering he's been a consistent outside threat for Orlando. But it's clear the program has to put more of an emphasis on shooting going forward and not just athleticism.

Mathurin right now is a horrible defensive player, who mainly excels in driving to the basket (not very efficiently yet), doesn't pass well, and is a streaky 3-point shooter (34% for his NBA career). Hardly a good fit next to Barrett (also a mediocre defender who likes to drive). Things can change in 3 years, but right now Mathurin hasn't shown anything that would instill confidence he should get a starting role for Team Canada over the likes of Dort and Brooks, who are far superior defenders and are not worse shooters (Brooks was tremendous in last year's WC and Mathurin would be lucky to ever have this kind of influence for Team Canada).

True, but a more mature Mathurin in his prime (26) could be ideal in a role off the bench who can come in and light it up from 3.

[ATLTimekeeper]

What Mathurin has going for him is a first step and pull-up jumper. RJ likes to drive in transition or off rotations, not squaring up a defender. There was redundancy in the half court with Brooks and Dort (and RJ, really). Shai overhandled way too much, and then it became easier for teams to throw bodies at him. There's always a balance between efficiency and ability. Ideally Nembhard fills that secondary ballhandler role in the SL going forward, but I think Mathurin has more scoring talent. Ideally Shai becomes better at being a floor general. He's amazing at creating his own jump shot (moreso 2 than 3), but that's a weapon.

Personally I'm probably hoping that Brooks accepts a bench role going forward. He YOLOs on offense too much, that even when he's on it's a disruption in the offensive flow. Dort is more conservative. It'd be a hard sell because he was the 3rd best Canadian in this tournament, but bad Dillon is a risk in elimination games (as we learned).

[Randle McMurphy]

Canada needs all the scoring/shooting they can get judging by this tournament (teams are just collapsing regularly on SGA because they know nobody on the perimeter is a threat) and that should definitely include Mathurin going forward.

[Kingsway_fan]

Had Jamal Murray performed to his norm... we had enough scoring... but we needed Eddy. To take pressure off of the guards.. and for D ...

The team was unbalanced roster wise.

We lost by nine points with Murray 3 for 13 and Brooks 1 for 9....

[ItsDanger]

Even with one of the best guards in NBA, still lost. Hope more people can appreciate why you need better bigs and initiate more offense with them early in possessions. This my turn, your turn style has to to stop. You don't have an advantage doing that and its very easy to structure a defense against it.

[gp2015]

Murray was the shooter that we needed when teams surrounded Shai to shut him down.

Unfortunately, Murray decided not to show up.

[PushDaRock]

One underdiscussed flaw in the roster was the lack of shooting. Everyone focuses on the lack of size, which is true, but the lack of shooting was almost just as big of a problem. Combining lack of size with lack of shooting is a death knell for most teams, and it ultimately bit this team in the end.

Brooks, Barrett, and Dort had decent tournaments overall, but they're streaky shooters who leave you vulnerable to droughts on offense. We saw that last World Cup in the loss against Brazil and now against France in Paris.

Going forward a solution could be starting Mathurin on the wing next to RJ. Mathurin's jumper demands respect and he's growing into being an alpha scorer, the kind who beasts on the FIBA stage.

Even a guy like Caleb Houstan would be a decent addition considering he's been a consistent outside threat for Orlando. But it's clear the program has to put more of an emphasis on shooting going forward and not just athleticism.

Mathurin right now is a horrible defensive player, who mainly excels in driving to the basket (not very efficiently yet), doesn't pass well, and is a streaky 3-point shooter (34% for his NBA career). Hardly a good fit next to Barrett (also a mediocre defender who likes to drive). Things can change in 3 years, but right now Mathurin hasn't shown anything that would instill confidence he should get a starting role for Team Canada over the likes of Dort and Brooks, who are far superior defenders and are not worse shooters (Brooks was tremendous in last year's WC and Mathurin would be lucky to ever have this kind of influence for Team Canada).

I don't really care whether he would be starting or not, probably more ideal off the bench but he's a microwave scorer that can really catch fire and hit a bunch of contested shots, something this team was lacking the entire tournament. He obviously has his flaws but he's also capable of winning you a game by himself in this type of format.

[TheFutureMM]

Even with one of the best guards in NBA, still lost. Hope more people can appreciate why you need better bigs and initiate more offense with them early in possessions. This my turn, your turn style has to to stop. You don't have an advantage doing that and its very easy to structure a defense against it.

Agreed. It gets old and defences start to clue into it knowing that they just have to stop the 1-guy in front of them.

I will say, it does feel like we didn't have as much 'my turn your turn' in the Spain & Greece games but I wonder if Wemby in the paint kind of threw off our scheme and freaked the guys out about going into the paint and as a result dudes just devolved into chucking when the ball hit their hands.

[kwajo]

I think the result at the Olympics has made me far more invested in watching Memphis games this year. We need Edey to develop into a major piece who can help our national team, I'm 100% in on following his growth as he becomes a pro.

[frumble]

I am not sure if we should read too much into the loss. We had a very good team, but not one so outstanding that we could expect to win every game. We went 3-1 against very good competition, which is in line with expectations. It's just unfortunate that the one loss was in the QFs. This is the nature of single-elimination tournaments.

Having Edey and a Murray who was healthy, in-shape, engaged, and unrestricted would have made us better, but I am not sure that the end result would have been any different.

All in all it was a very good cycle.

[Chalky_White]

I don't really care whether he would be starting or not, probably more ideal off the bench but he's a microwave scorer that can really catch fire and hit a bunch of contested shots, something this team was lacking the entire tournament. He obviously has his flaws but he's also capable of winning you a game by himself in this type of format.

Mathurin still has flaws but its clear we were missing a player of his profile. Too much of the scoring burden fell on SGA.

The team probably expected Murray to come in as the starting two-guard and add that shooting threat, but it didnt work out that way. NAW deserved more minutes.

Defense is important but not surrounding Shai with more shooting going forward but would be a tremendous waste of an elite player's time with the national team.

[Strategist1]

I don't really care whether he would be starting or not, probably more ideal off the bench but he's a microwave scorer that can really catch fire and hit a bunch of contested shots, something this team was lacking the entire tournament. He obviously has his flaws but he's also capable of winning you a game by himself in this type of format.

Mathurin still has flaws but its clear we were missing a player of his profile. Too much of the scoring burden fell on SGA.

The team probably expected Murray to come in as the starting two-guard and add that shooting threat, but it didnt work out that way. NAW deserved more minutes.

Defense is important but not surrounding Shai with more shooting going forward but would be a tremendous waste of an elite player's time with the national team.

A healthy and rested Murray & Wiggins...is all we needed.. Both proven in big games and being clutch. But it just wasn't meant to be.