Help the Jazz lose without making it too obvious

[louc1970]

The Jazz trade Clarkson/Collins
The Nets trade Simmons

No picks move, 3 players that no one seems to want.
For Utah, Simmons comes off the books at the end of the year so Markkanen's new deal is less cumbersome.
For Nets, they are losing and gain 2 players that will be in the final year next year as their rookies from 25 get needed playing time.

[psman2]

Zero reason for Brooklyn to take on those salaries.

[BK_2020]

The Jazz are fine. They won 11 games in the 2nd half of 2023-24 season and 5 games after the trade deadline.

[ChettheJet]

The move to not look obvious is

CHI Collins and Clarkson
UT Zach Lavine

They can worry about his contract and redirecting him next summer and all that next summer
What they get this year is a guy who is coming off an injury who wanted out of CHI where he signed his max contract, he wants to be seen as the #1 guy which he isn't going to be anywhere, he thinks by his veteran status he should be seen as a team leader but he's not a leader. What he'd end up doing in UT is trading scoring games with Lauri the same way he did with DeRozan, 32 for one tonight, 34 for the other the next game. And they lose more than they'd win which is what the move is supposed to accomplish without looking like a race to the lottery.

The Bulls don't mind the salaries since they're shorter than what they give up as Collins become the starting 4, Clarkson and Dosunmu come off the bench and play plenty of minutes.

[babyjax13]

The move to not look obvious is

CHI Collins and Clarkson
UT Zach Lavine

They can worry about his contract and redirecting him next summer and all that next summer
What they get this year is a guy who is coming off an injury who wanted out of CHI where he signed his max contract, he wants to be seen as the #1 guy which he isn't going to be anywhere, he thinks by his veteran status he should be seen as a team leader but he's not a leader. What he'd end up doing in UT is trading scoring games with Lauri the same way he did with DeRozan, 32 for one tonight, 34 for the other the next game. And they lose more than they'd win which is what the move is supposed to accomplish without looking like a race to the lottery.

The Bulls don't mind the salaries since they're shorter than what they give up as Collins become the starting 4, Clarkson and Dosunmu come off the bench and play plenty of minutes.

Utah is owed value here and this doesn't meet the brief. Brooklyn is owed value in the first deal (I'd do the lowest of our 2027 1sts since we will likely have 4).

[babyjax13]

Clarkson for Vincent, see if we can get a 2nd, too.

[babyjax13]

The Jazz are fine. They won 11 games in the 2nd half of 2023-24 season and 5 games after the trade deadline.

Because they rested their veterans on mostly alternating days. We need to move some of Collins/Clarkson/Sexton to really tank. Only one of those guys has positive value.

[jayjaysee]

Without making it obvious?

Utah has made it obvious by their lack of activity this offseason. No matter how little some value the firsts Utah own, they still own enough to have done something..anything. They still had the cap flexibility to have done something, anything..

Theres no reason for Brooklyn to consider the OP, at all.. But Utah doesn’t seem to be hiding the plan to be terrible this year..

Random..

I don’t think you focus on trading Collins if you’re tanking. I think you start him. Hide Lauri by keeping Collins and one of Clarkson/George on the court with him at all times… Will ensure the starters can’t win many games and then force feed the youth minutes off the bench to commit to rebuild.

Sure trade him if you get off his second year cheap enough, but wouldn’t feel a need to.

[BK_2020]

The Jazz are fine. They won 11 games in the 2nd half of 2023-24 season and 5 games after the trade deadline.

Because they rested their veterans on mostly alternating days. We need to move some of Collins/Clarkson/Sexton to really tank. Only one of those guys has positive value.

Not really. Collins played all of the post-TDL games except two 2nd leg of b2b games until being shut down on the last day of March. Sexton played every game post-TDL including 2nd legs of b2b until being shut down on April 9. Clarkson played every night post-TDL except one missed game until being shut down for good early March. Their veterans did not rest every other day.
Jazz record post-TDL with Clarkson was 2 - 10, without 3 - 14.
Jazz record post-TDL with Collins was 4 - 15, without 2 - 8.
Jazz record post-TDL with Sexton was 3 - 23, without 2 - 2.
The Jazz are fine.

[babyjax13]

The Jazz are fine. They won 11 games in the 2nd half of 2023-24 season and 5 games after the trade deadline.

Because they rested their veterans on mostly alternating days. We need to move some of Collins/Clarkson/Sexton to really tank. Only one of those guys has positive value.

Not really. Collins played all of the post-TDL games except two 2nd leg of b2b games until being shut down on the last day of March. Sexton played every game post-TDL including 2nd legs of b2b until being shut down on April 9. Clarkson played every night post-TDL except one missed game until being shut down for good early March. Their veterans did not rest every other day.
Jazz record post-TDL with Clarkson was 2 - 10, without 3 - 14.
Jazz record post-TDL with Collins was 4 - 15, without 2 - 8.
Jazz record post-TDL with Sexton was 3 - 23, without 2 - 2.
The Jazz are fine.

I was being a bit hyperbolic, but some additional context:

Clarkson played once in games 66-82; Lauri played 0 times in games 62-66 & 4 times in 67-82; Collins played 0 games from 75-82, had his minutes reduced to under 24 minutes in 4 of the 6 games he played from games 68-74 and was held out in one of the 4 games Lauri did play. Sexton said at the end of the season he was told to rest (sounds like a "recommendation" he had the option to refuse) and he said he wanted to play in every game he could (but he still was out for games 78-82). We also shut down Walker Kessler and Kris Dunn from games 78-82.

So, not 'every other game' (though it did feel like there was a pretty conscious effort to not have Clarkson and Lauri play at the same time), but certainly there was a very concerted effort to rest the veterans in the second half of the season and pump minutes to the young guys (who were not ready, mercifully). I don't think that level of holding guys out is really possible for an entire season, so if we want to keep up a disgraceful record for the entire year, some guys need to go.

[bkohler]

I don’t think you focus on trading Collins if you’re tanking. I think you start him. Hide Lauri by keeping Collins and one of Clarkson/George on the court with him at all times… Will ensure the starters can’t win many games and then force feed the youth minutes off the bench to commit to rebuild..

I think the secret weapon is starting Collins, Lauri, and Kessler together. Last year, that combination was awful, and many forget that the Jazz were one of the worst teams in the league for the first few months before the lineup was changed and more spacing was introduced.

[chrbal]

Detroit will offer you Moore Jr for a similarly priced player you don’t want. We’re honestly not sure if he can do anything, but he’s a young wing

[louc1970]

The move to not look obvious is

CHI Collins and Clarkson
UT Zach Lavine

They can worry about his contract and redirecting him next summer and all that next summer
What they get this year is a guy who is coming off an injury who wanted out of CHI where he signed his max contract, he wants to be seen as the #1 guy which he isn't going to be anywhere, he thinks by his veteran status he should be seen as a team leader but he's not a leader. What he'd end up doing in UT is trading scoring games with Lauri the same way he did with DeRozan, 32 for one tonight, 34 for the other the next game. And they lose more than they'd win which is what the move is supposed to accomplish without looking like a race to the lottery.

The Bulls don't mind the salaries since they're shorter than what they give up as Collins become the starting 4, Clarkson and Dosunmu come off the bench and play plenty of minutes.

Would bringing in LaVine hurt any team chemistry/dynamics of the young players?

[HornetJail]

they have a notably worse roster than every team in the West except maybe Portland. They will have no problem getting a bottom 5 record as it is, playing all those teams 3 and 4 times each. Trading Sexton for anything (and thus funneling shots to Clarkson, who sucks) would solidify it.

I like Collins+Sexton for Simmons in terms of value, no way BRK willingly takes on Clarkson+Collins without incentive.

[babyjax13]

The move to not look obvious is

CHI Collins and Clarkson
UT Zach Lavine

They can worry about his contract and redirecting him next summer and all that next summer
What they get this year is a guy who is coming off an injury who wanted out of CHI where he signed his max contract, he wants to be seen as the #1 guy which he isn't going to be anywhere, he thinks by his veteran status he should be seen as a team leader but he's not a leader. What he'd end up doing in UT is trading scoring games with Lauri the same way he did with DeRozan, 32 for one tonight, 34 for the other the next game. And they lose more than they'd win which is what the move is supposed to accomplish without looking like a race to the lottery.

The Bulls don't mind the salaries since they're shorter than what they give up as Collins become the starting 4, Clarkson and Dosunmu come off the bench and play plenty of minutes.

Would bringing in LaVine hurt any team chemistry/dynamics of the young players?

I would assume so. No defense, teammates and coaches seem to have issues with his play. Seems like a nice enough guy but I wouldn't want him taking shots and possessions from the young guys while also not contributing to them learning how to play defense.

[zimpy27]

They had the worst record in the NBA after the ASB last season..

And they lost Dunn who was one of their better players..

Don't worry, they will be terrible.

[brackdan70]

I don’t think need much help lol.

[clippertown]

Utah can get worse now and better later by trading Collins and Clarkson for Powell, Tucker and Mann.

Mann would be a solid 3&D for Utah but is not a primary scorer yet. Powell will get moved at the deadline and can keep things competitive without complaints about starting minutes. Tucker loses games naturally but is a great veteran presence.

Clips replace some of Norm's scoring with Clarkson and improve at the PF position at the cost of Mann. Tucker is gone.

[babyjax13]

Utah can get worse now and better later by trading Collins and Clarkson for Powell, Tucker and Mann.

Mann would be a solid 3&D for Utah but is not a primary scorer yet. Powell will get moved at the deadline and can keep things competitive without complaints about starting minutes. Tucker loses games naturally but is a great veteran presence.

Clips replace some of Norm's scoring with Clarkson and improve at the PF position at the cost of Mann. Tucker is gone.

Considering that the Clippers wouldn't trade Mann for Jesus, I don't think they will trade him and expirings for bad money. I'd add our worst 2025 1st to grease the wheels and the Clippers can replace Mann with Batum and Coffey. We can buyout all of them so they can sign with contenders.

[meekrab]

Brooklyn is finally at the end of the Ben Simmons Fun Time Adventure and OP wants them to trade him for non-expiring salaries?