Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V2.0

[billy_hoyle]

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

That's a lottery team? Hmmm.

Any team who is starting Ausar / Duren / Clingan in 2024-25, and brining Paul Reed, Aaron Wiggins, and Shaedon Sharpe off the bench as your 8th-10th men is a lottery team, and quite easily so.

The fact that is even a conversation is just telling as to how hard rebuilding is when you get as unlucky as DET has gotten with ping pong balls. You can re-draft 100% perfectly and still be kind of ass.

You could play a lineup of:

Haliburton
Cade
Sharpe
Jaden McDaniels
Duren

With Tyrese Maxey as the 6th man, Clingan your 7th, Ausar as 8th.

Good bench depth in Sasser, Williams and Wiggins.

That team could have home court this year.

Maxey and garbage was 0.500.

Haliburton with Myles Turner was above 0.500.

[WaltFrazier]

I would say they have not really (since Cade was picked)

2022 - they took Ivey. Who realistically is materially a more talented player you are confident is going to be better over the rest of their careers? Mathurin? Sharpe?

2022 - Duren was a clear hit. There is not a single player in the draft drafted after him you would take.

2023 - Ausar Thompson - again, no obvioius misses were taken in that range

2024 - Holland - such a TBD there is no point even discussing.

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

Also once you go back in time and change one or two picks, like Hali and Maxey in 2020, nothing else would be the same going forward. Draft position, etc

[billy_hoyle]

I don't think they have been swinging and missing, but here's their team from 2020 on with guys available and mocked in those ranges:

PG: Haliburton @ 7 (Hayes 2020), Maxey @ 16 (Stewart 2020), Sasser @ 25 (Sasser 2023)

SG: Cade @ 1 (Cade 2021), Aaron Wiggins @ 42 (Livers 2021), Vince Williams @ 36 (Procida 2022)

SF: Ausar Thompson @ 5 (Ausar 2023), Shaedon Sharpe @ 5 (Ivey 2022)

PF: Duren @ 13 (Duren 2022), Jaden McDaniels @ 19 (Saddiq Bey 2020)

C: Clingan @ 5 (Holland 2024) , Paul Reed @ 38 (Lee 2020)


That's a fairly stark change from what it is today. They did pick 4 of the same guys in a re-draft, so its not like they have been completely idiotic, but look at how much that 2020 draft changes things.

You can’t just take hindsight and say what they’re should’ve done with knowing how they end up

Besides - the fact you took absolute best case scenario and constructed a lotttery teams still shows they couldn’t do much anyways

Also once you go back in time and change one or two picks, like Hali and Maxey in 2020, nothing else would be the same going forward. Draft position, etc

Your right, they may have actually won the Wemby draft. That goes the other way too.
They could have taken Barnes over Cade. Moved down to select Jalen Williams instead of Ivey.

Lots of things could go differently, but they really have had the chance to select multiple stars, they haven't, and that's the most damning thing about their rebuild. Need to pick the actual stars

[Pointgod]

I honestly don't get the Pistons.

I think Cade in the right situation could be a great hub because he can do many things well in terms of creation, playmaking, shooting. But the Pistons keep drafting one dimensional guys who can't shoot and who aren't play creators/finishers to surround him with. Holland - can't shoot. Thompson - can't shoot. Ivey - can't shoot. Duran - can't shoot. Hayes - can't shoot. And none of these guys project as good shooters as they develop either. Even their big FA signing Harris was only a 35% 3pt shooter despite all the spacing and attention Maxey/Embiid create.

They need to blow up the tank and re-tank because their recent picks will not get the most out of Cade.

Pistons are the perfect example of what happens when you don’t commit to tanking properly. They stupidly signed vets to take minutes away from their young players, they hired a coach who actually played vets over young players, they held onto bums like Kilian Hayes instead of trading them for anything. The goal of any rebuilding team should be to have multiple first round picks in any given draft to give you flexibility to move up or take chances in the draft. It’s amazing how much they’re **** up their rebuild considering Cade should be the easiest player to build around.

Don't commit to a tank? They've had the BEST odds of winning the draft in:

2024
2023
2022

Drafted Cade #1 in 2021

They've literally done THE best you could possibly do.

They had 3 firsts in the 2020 draft.
They had 2 firsts in the 2023 draft.
They had 2 lottery picks in the 2022 draft.

Was this post satirical?

Part of leaning into the tank involves giving minutes to young players to develop or up their trade value. The Pistons were bad but they were giving minutes to vets and didn’t build up the value of any of the trade value of their young players. The point of having multiple picks through tanking is to give yourself more outs, just having the picks isn’t good enough because as you pointed out you’ll miss on some. You have to be willing to pump up the value of young guys and move off of them early to bring in more picks or players around Cade.

They literally had Killian Hayes on the roster past his useful life, traded Saddiq Bey for peanuts because they waited too long and Isiah Stewart is a decent role player but he also plays the same position as Jalen Duren. Other than Cade the rest of the picks are too young to know for sure but they’re still continuing to sign vets like Tobias Harris for some reason, claimed Paul Reed off waivers and signed Malik Beasley while they should just be taking on salary and making sure that there’s a clear path for Ivey, Duren, Thompson and Holland to get minutes.

[dagger]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

[OakleyDokely]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

He's barely averaged 20 minutes for his career, and played only 26 minutes last year.

Who was the last player given a max playing that few minutes?

Say what you want about Scottie, Cade, Mobley, Wagner, but at least they're proven, starting caliber, 30+ minute a game guys.

[JB7]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

[OakleyDokely]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

[Kingsway_fan]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

GS will deal with realities of today's nba.. max up or lose for nothing

[AkelaLoneWolf]

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

GS will deal with realities of today's nba.. max up or lose for nothing

better to let him get to rfa next year; no team will offer him the max unless he has a crazy season this year.

[JB7]

Jonathan Kuminga is looking for a max extension, same $$$ as Scottie, Cade, Mobley...

Discuss

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

I don't buy that Kuminga was untouchable this offseason. I think they were reluctant to trade Podz, because he was the one guy they have on a rookie deal for the next few seasons that is probably guaranteed to play in their rotation.

[OakleyDokely]

That is probably the reason the Warriors were looking at Markkanen, and also the reason the deal did not get done. GSW probably wanted to offer Kuminga in the deal (they didn't want to pay him that much), and Utah didn't want Kuminga if he had those salary expectations.

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

I don't buy that Kuminga was untouchable this offseason. I think they were reluctant to trade Podz, because he was the one guy they have on a rookie deal for the next few seasons that is probably guaranteed to play in their rotation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/warriors/article/warriors-gm-calls-jonathan-kuminga-18656896.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10120539-warriors-trade-rumors-jonathan-kuminga-pretty-much-untouchable-amid-contract-buzz

[HumbleRen]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=jjXxOoE4yWMd4fG6_-MQMQ

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=jjXxOoE4yWMd4fG6_-MQMQ

Jokic looks like he shed a few? Denver back to the championships? Just need Murray to not look broken.

[JB7]

Apparently he was one the deal breakers in the talks and he's been deemed untouchable by their ownership.

I'm not sure who GS thinks Kuminga is, but they better be right.

I don't buy that Kuminga was untouchable this offseason. I think they were reluctant to trade Podz, because he was the one guy they have on a rookie deal for the next few seasons that is probably guaranteed to play in their rotation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/warriors/article/warriors-gm-calls-jonathan-kuminga-18656896.php

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10120539-warriors-trade-rumors-jonathan-kuminga-pretty-much-untouchable-amid-contract-buzz

That is what you call a bluff.

[JB7]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=jjXxOoE4yWMd4fG6_-MQMQ

Jokic looks like he shed a few? Denver back to the championships? Just need Murray to not look broken.

Murray is the problem now. If he continues to play the way he did last playoffs and this olympics, Denver is done. Jokic can’t win a chip all by himself. And Murray also then has no trade value to flip him for another #2.

[bballsparkin]

Utah wanted to bankroll GSW plus take all their draft capital. Ensuring high picks the Danny way. Why would they want to take Kuminga on when he wants money like that and GSW would have to pay him? That's what's up.

[bballsparkin]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=jjXxOoE4yWMd4fG6_-MQMQ

Jokic looks like he shed a few? Denver back to the championships? Just need Murray to not look broken.

They need a lot. KCP, Grant, BB, they've lost a lot of talent. .

[bballsparkin]

Murray is the problem now. If he continues to play the way he did last playoffs and this olympics, Denver is done. Jokic can’t win a chip all by himself. And Murray also then has no trade value to flip him for another #2.

If Jokic got "injured", they could cash in a nice pick this draft. Just saying...

[JB7]

Murray is the problem now. If he continues to play the way he did last playoffs and this olympics, Denver is done. Jokic can’t win a chip all by himself. And Murray also then has no trade value to flip him for another #2.

If Jokic got "injured", they could cash in a nice pick this draft. Just saying...

Yes, but they would probably have to trade that pick along with Murray to acquire the 2nd star to replace Murray. Whoever they would draft would not fit Jokic’s timeline.