In hindsight with the level of international competition there is now, does this change how you view the '92 Dream Team?

[Yuri36]

International competition is better now, though the 92 Croatia team had Toni Kukoc, Drazen Petrovich, Dino Radja, and Zan Tabak who were either in the nba or close to it at that time.

Honestly, which team is better: 92 Croatia team or 2024 French team?

Physically and athletically (and so in defense)? France 2024 >>>>>> 92 Croatia and that's not even close.

Yes in term of talent, that's probably the reverse but against the US (be it in 92 or 2024), if you can't at least match them a bit in term of athleticism, the rest (pure talent, basketball IQ) becomes rapidly irrelevant

[zimpy27]

The slowest guy in the 100m sprint this year was faster than the winner at the 1992 Olympics..

Most of Phelps records are broken. Everyone everywhere has peaked higher, fast, stronger than 1992.

Everywhere.. except the olympics. This is the logic people would have you believe.

Teams can't be transported from the past and expect to be as good now, all you can do is judge teams in their era. Obviously basketball wasn't as big internationally but all that tells you is you can't compare this team to that team.

I had no idea that was the case.

Yeah he no longer holds an individual world record, only in a couple relay teams does he hold the WR jointly.

He was still competing 8 years ago in Rio olympics.

[Hair Jordan]

The slowest guy in the 100m sprint this year was faster than the winner at the 1992 Olympics..

Most of Phelps records are broken. Everyone everywhere has peaked higher, fast, stronger than 1992.

Everywhere.. except the olympics. This is the logic people would have you believe.

Teams can't be transported from the past and expect to be as good now, all you can do is judge teams in their era. Obviously basketball wasn't as big internationally but all that tells you is you can't compare this team to that team.

Lame reasoning cause it’s a little more nuanced than that. Bob Beamon’s long jump world record from 1968 has only been bested once in 56 years and that was in 1991 which was 33 years ago. Carl Lewis's gold medal winning jump from 1984 (28’) was better than the 2024 gold medal jump (27’9”). Lewis’s 1988 jump was even better (28’7”). FloJo’s 100M and 200M records from1988 still stand. Johnathan Edwards triple jump WR from 1995 still stands. You can’t just look at raw times in track and field or swimming and make generational comparisons because it’s not apples to apples. Track surfaces are different, track shoes/spikes are different etc. You also have to factor in the temperature and wind conditions; i.e. were they running into a headwind or tailwind? Same thing with swimmers. A few years ago they were wearing bodysuits and swim trunks that were so aerodynamic in the water it was literally shaving seconds off of their times. Things like that have to be taken into account. Take Lebron for example. His first NBA game took place in October of 2003 which was 21 years ago. Most track and field and swimming records from back then have been broken. So by your logic, Lebron shouldn’t be able to compete against these modern athletes who should be bigger/stronger/and faster then him but here he is, competing just as well if not better then 2006 when he stunk it up and won a bronze. Evolution takes thousands of years. It doesn’t happen in less then 20. You probably think South Sudan could beat the Dream Team because Team 2024 struggled against them

[zimpy27]

The slowest guy in the 100m sprint this year was faster than the winner at the 1992 Olympics..

Most of Phelps records are broken. Everyone everywhere has peaked higher, fast, stronger than 1992.

Everywhere.. except the olympics. This is the logic people would have you believe.

Teams can't be transported from the past and expect to be as good now, all you can do is judge teams in their era. Obviously basketball wasn't as big internationally but all that tells you is you can't compare this team to that team.

Lame reasoning cause it’s a little more nuanced than that. Bob Beamon’s long jump world record from 1968 has only been bested once in 56 years abd that was in 1991 which was 33 years ago. Carl Lewis's gold medal winning jump from 1984 (28’) was better than the 2024 gold medal jump (27’9”). Lewis’s 1988 jump was even better (28’7”). FloJo’s 100M and 200M records from1988 still stand. Johnathan Edwards triple jump WR from 1995 still stands. You can’t just look at raw times in track and field or swimming and make generational comparisons because it’s not apples to apples. Track surfaces are different, track shoes/spikes are different etc. You also have to factor in the temperature and wind conditions; i.e. were they running into a headwind or tailwind? Same thing with swimmers. A few years ago they were wearing bodysuits and swim trunks that were so aerodynamic in the water it was literally shaving seconds off of their times. Things like that have to be taken into account. Take Lebron for example. His first NBA game took place in October of 2003 which was 21 years ago. Most track and field and swimming records from back then have been broken. So by your logic, Lebron shouldn’t be able to compete against these modern athletes who should be bigger/stronger/and faster then him but here he is, competing just as well if not better then 2006 when he stunk it up and won a bronze. Evolution takes thousands of years. It doesn’t happen in less then 20. You probably think South Sudan could beat the Dream Team because Team 2024 struggled against them

You labelled a few exceptions to the rule, therefore proving it.

[Hair Jordan]

The slowest guy in the 100m sprint this year was faster than the winner at the 1992 Olympics..

Most of Phelps records are broken. Everyone everywhere has peaked higher, fast, stronger than 1992.

Everywhere.. except the olympics. This is the logic people would have you believe.

Teams can't be transported from the past and expect to be as good now, all you can do is judge teams in their era. Obviously basketball wasn't as big internationally but all that tells you is you can't compare this team to that team.

Lame reasoning cause it’s a little more nuanced than that. Bob Beamon’s long jump world record from 1968 has only been bested once in 56 years abd that was in 1991 which was 33 years ago. Carl Lewis's gold medal winning jump from 1984 (28’) was better than the 2024 gold medal jump (27’9”). Lewis’s 1988 jump was even better (28’7”). FloJo’s 100M and 200M records from1988 still stand. Johnathan Edwards triple jump WR from 1995 still stands. You can’t just look at raw times in track and field or swimming and make generational comparisons because it’s not apples to apples. Track surfaces are different, track shoes/spikes are different etc. You also have to factor in the temperature and wind conditions; i.e. were they running into a headwind or tailwind? Same thing with swimmers. A few years ago they were wearing bodysuits and swim trunks that were so aerodynamic in the water it was literally shaving seconds off of their times. Things like that have to be taken into account. Take Lebron for example. His first NBA game took place in October of 2003 which was 21 years ago. Most track and field and swimming records from back then have been broken. So by your logic, Lebron shouldn’t be able to compete against these modern athletes who should be bigger/stronger/and faster then him but here he is, competing just as well if not better then 2006 when he stunk it up and won a bronze. Evolution takes thousands of years. It doesn’t happen in less then 20. You probably think South Sudan could beat the Dream Team because Team 2024 struggled against them

You labelled a few exceptions to the rule, therefore proving it.

That’s the retort I get from a forum mod? I expected better. You completely missed my point. You also misspelled labeled. Get me Tsherkin. At least he puts forth some well thought out responses even if I find his opinions disagreeable most of the time.

[Onlytimewilltel]

The Dream Team lost to a bunch of college kids. Serbia and France would both beat them.

Context:

It’s rumored that Daly ran up to the press box and told the scorekeeper to erase the score before the press walked into the gym. Krzyzewski eventually admitted that Daly actually threw the game because he wanted the professionals to lose. Why? Daly’s philosophy was that any team–no matter how talented–could lose on any given day. He wanted to prove that point.

When the teams got together the next day for a rematch–with Jordan playing the entire game (Daly had reduced Joran’s playing time the day before)–the Olympic team blew away the college all-stars.

We’ll never know if Daly’s tactic was the reason “The Dream Team” went on to perform brilliantly that year. But what we do know is that Jordan and Company coasted to Olympic Gold.

https://www.thesportscol.com/2017/10/dream-team-vs-college-stars/

Karl Malone said that the Dream Team wanted a rematch on the same day, but Chuck Daly did not allow it. During their second scrimmage, however, the Dream Team showed why they were known as such by being absolutely dominating.

“The next day, we couldn’t get the ball over half court,” Grant Hill recalled, while Chris Webber had an even worse memory of that second encounter.

“We didn’t score a point. Not one point. Not a point on a free throw, not a point in the game. We were the perfect wake-up call for them, and they were the perfect reality check for us,” C-Webb said.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/charles-barkley-recalls-dream-team-scrimmage-vs-college-all-stars

[zimpy27]

Lame reasoning cause it’s a little more nuanced than that. Bob Beamon’s long jump world record from 1968 has only been bested once in 56 years abd that was in 1991 which was 33 years ago. Carl Lewis's gold medal winning jump from 1984 (28’) was better than the 2024 gold medal jump (27’9”). Lewis’s 1988 jump was even better (28’7”). FloJo’s 100M and 200M records from1988 still stand. Johnathan Edwards triple jump WR from 1995 still stands. You can’t just look at raw times in track and field or swimming and make generational comparisons because it’s not apples to apples. Track surfaces are different, track shoes/spikes are different etc. You also have to factor in the temperature and wind conditions; i.e. were they running into a headwind or tailwind? Same thing with swimmers. A few years ago they were wearing bodysuits and swim trunks that were so aerodynamic in the water it was literally shaving seconds off of their times. Things like that have to be taken into account. Take Lebron for example. His first NBA game took place in October of 2003 which was 21 years ago. Most track and field and swimming records from back then have been broken. So by your logic, Lebron shouldn’t be able to compete against these modern athletes who should be bigger/stronger/and faster then him but here he is, competing just as well if not better then 2006 when he stunk it up and won a bronze. Evolution takes thousands of years. It doesn’t happen in less then 20. You probably think South Sudan could beat the Dream Team because Team 2024 struggled against them

You labelled a few exceptions to the rule, therefore proving it.

That’s the retort I get from a forum mod? I expected better. You completely missed my point. You also misspelled labeled. Get me Tsherkin. At least he puts forth some well thought out responses even if I find his opinions disagreeable most of the time.

Labeled is American English, labelled is British English

[doogie_hauser]

The Dream Team was the inception point for the takeoff of basketball internationally. You're talking apples and oranges.

I'm thrilled the games are entertaining now.

Pretty much this.

The 1992 Dream Team/Jordan Mania led to the rise of popularity of Hoops on Europe/Australia/South America etc and the main reason why there is so much international/foreign talent in today's NBA.

I would honestly say its David Stern's greatest legacy as NBA Commissioner.

[Invictus88]

TLDR'D the rest of the thread. Sorry.

The 92 Dream Team was a big influence on the growth of international basketball. If anything what you see now makes me appreciate what they did even more.

[tsherkin]

I've seen people defend the greatness of the Dream Team by mentioning Larry Bird. It was over for him at that time and the same for Magic.

Magic... had authored a 19/7/12.5 season on +9% rTS while leading his team to the Finals the year prior. He was very far from done, he had simply retired due to controversy over his HIV diagnosis. He was still killing it quite effectively until VERY shortly before the Barcelona Olympics.

More broadly, the 92 team beat up a bunch of crap squads which never had a chance. That's clear. But it was the first time pros were allowed to play, and they were brilliantly dominant. It was a fantastic narrative. It was also very different than the current environment of competition at the Olympics, where the world is in a much better state of talent development and focus on the game of basketball. Of course things are going to be different than they were more than 30 years ago. That's... normal.

If everyone on the 92 team was in their primes, they'd be a hell of a match up for any more recent Team USA squad, no doubt. Hell, even as composed, they'd be interesting. I don't really see why the present level of competition should diminish our memory/stance on how the 92 team competed in its own time.

[Clyde Frazier]

Failing to acknowledge games are closer now because the rest of the world is better is absurd. That said, no it doesn't change my opinion of the dream team at all. It's a moment in time that should be celebrated, not minimized.

[Sedale Threatt]

International competition is better now, though the 92 Croatia team had Toni Kukoc, Drazen Petrovich, Dino Radja, and Zan Tabak who were either in the nba or close to it at that time.

Honestly, which team is better: 92 Croatia team or 2024 French team?

Physically and athletically (and so in defense)? France 2024 >>>>>> 92 Croatia and that's not even close.

Yes in term of talent, that's probably the reverse but against the US (be it in 92 or 2024), if you can't at least match them a bit in term of athleticism, the rest (pure talent, basketball IQ) becomes rapidly irrelevant

It's been a while since I rewatched that game -- I used to have all the Dream Team games on VHS (lol) -- but as good as that Croatia team was talent-wise, it was extremely apparent they were basically shtting their pants from the opening tip.

France, on the other hand, went right after the USA. Just like Serbia, Spain, South Sudan, Germany, Argentina, Greece ... pretty much anybody we play now over the past two decades. Just believing you can beat them has been as big an improvement as anything else with international competition.

[TheNG]

It made me realize how much the current players are not in the same tier of that 92 team.
Winning by 51 against Lithuania with Sabonis, Marciulionis, Karnisovas in the semis, just wow...
And by 32 against Croatia with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc in the Finals, again just wow....
And in comparison the current team wins by 4 against Avramovic, Petrusev, Dobric...
And by 11 against Yabusele...
No need to say more.

[Yuri36]

It made me realize how much the current players are not in the same tier of that 92 team.
Winning by 51 against Lithuania with Sabonis, Marciulionis, Karnisovas in the semis, just wow...
And by 32 against Croatia with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc in the Finals, again just wow....
And in comparison the current team wins by 4 against Avramovic, Petrusev, Dobric...
And by 11 against Yabusele...
No need to say more.

Seems like you didn't read all the previous posts of this thread.

It's smart for you to put the names of the main stars of the international teams of 92 like this but the reality is that apart Drazen, all those stars were miles away from knowing what it really took to play in NBA, let alone to match its best players.


Things have changed drastically since then.

[jstudabaka]

The legacy of the 1992 Dream Team isn't really about basketball prowess; it's about how their star power grew the game internationally. You can draw a direct line from that squad to the level of international talent today. They 100% accelerated the international-NBA pipeline.

[jstudabaka]

It made me realize how much the current players are not in the same tier of that 92 team.
Winning by 51 against Lithuania with Sabonis, Marciulionis, Karnisovas in the semis, just wow...
And by 32 against Croatia with Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc in the Finals, again just wow....
And in comparison the current team wins by 4 against Avramovic, Petrusev, Dobric...
And by 11 against Yabusele...
No need to say more.

That is 100% false. The international game was not nearly as developed in 1992.

[homecourtloss]

The slowest guy in the 100m sprint this year was faster than the winner at the 1992 Olympics..

Most of Phelps records are broken. Everyone everywhere has peaked higher, fast, stronger than 1992.

Everywhere.. except the olympics. This is the logic people would have you believe.

Teams can't be transported from the past and expect to be as good now, all you can do is judge teams in their era. Obviously basketball wasn't as big internationally but all that tells you is you can't compare this team to that team.

Lame reasoning cause it’s a little more nuanced than that. Bob Beamon’s long jump world record from 1968 has only been bested once in 56 years and that was in 1991 which was 33 years ago. Carl Lewis's gold medal winning jump from 1984 (28’) was better than the 2024 gold medal jump (27’9”). Lewis’s 1988 jump was even better (28’7”). FloJo’s 100M and 200M records from1988 still stand. Johnathan Edwards triple jump WR from 1995 still stands. You can’t just look at raw times in track and field or swimming and make generational comparisons because it’s not apples to apples. Track surfaces are different, track shoes/spikes are different etc. You also have to factor in the temperature and wind conditions; i.e. were they running into a headwind or tailwind? Same thing with swimmers. A few years ago they were wearing bodysuits and swim trunks that were so aerodynamic in the water it was literally shaving seconds off of their times. Things like that have to be taken into account. Take Lebron for example. His first NBA game took place in October of 2003 which was 21 years ago. Most track and field and swimming records from back then have been broken. So by your logic, Lebron shouldn’t be able to compete against these modern athletes who should be bigger/stronger/and faster then him but here he is, competing just as well if not better then 2006 when he stunk it up and won a bronze. Evolution takes thousands of years. It doesn’t happen in less then 20. You probably think South Sudan could beat the Dream Team because Team 2024 struggled against them

Here we have some strawmen, false equivalencies, red herrings, cherry-picking, misinterpretation of the use of "evolution"; you got them all covered!

[SelfishPlayer]

I've seen people defend the greatness of the Dream Team by mentioning Larry Bird. It was over for him at that time and the same for Magic.

Magic... had authored a 19/7/12.5 season on +9% rTS while leading his team to the Finals the year prior. He was very far from done, he had simply retired due to controversy over his HIV diagnosis. He was still killing it quite effectively until VERY shortly before the Barcelona Olympics.

More broadly, the 92 team beat up a bunch of crap squads which never had a chance. That's clear. But it was the first time pros were allowed to play, and they were brilliantly dominant. It was a fantastic narrative. It was also very different than the current environment of competition at the Olympics, where the world is in a much better state of talent development and focus on the game of basketball. Of course things are going to be different than they were more than 30 years ago. That's... normal.

If everyone on the 92 team was in their primes, they'd be a hell of a match up for any more recent Team USA squad, no doubt. Hell, even as composed, they'd be interesting. I don't really see why the present level of competition should diminish our memory/stance on how the 92 team competed in its own time.

The Dream Team is held as the standard, a standard that can't be surpassed unless equal blowouts are produced. You clearly can see that Team USA plays better teams today and two of the names on the Dream Team that are used to define their greatness over other US teams were actually not in their best form at the time they completed in 1992. This is like my Jordan never made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Pippen line. It's a line that only rings more and more true as we see Lebron looking dominant at the same age where Jordan was given a pass for not getting the Wizards to the playoffs. As time goes on we can see clearer. The Dream Team didn't play anyone while Magic and Bird were no longer great players.

[tsherkin]

The Dream Team is held as the standard, a standard that can't be surpassed unless equal blowouts are produced. You clearly can see that Team USA plays better teams today and two of the names on the Dream Team that are used to define their greatness over other US teams were actually not in their best form at the time they completed in 1992. This is like my Jordan never made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Pippen line. It's a line that only rings more and more true as we see Lebron looking dominant at the same age where Jordan was given a pass for not getting the Wizards to the playoffs. As time goes on we can see clearer. The Dream Team didn't play anyone while Magic and Bird were no longer great players.

Magic was pretty clearly still a great player, though, which was my point. He was a YEAR removed from coming 2nd to Jordan in the MVP vote, man. It's violently inaccurate that Magic wasn't still a great player. Bird, sure, he had his injuries and could barely be on the court due to his back. Magic, though, was a different story.

Yes, Team USA has stiffer competition today. That's fine, it's harder, the margins are smaller. That's normal. That doesn't really change anything about what happened in 92, though. There was still an aura about that team, and an international impact, which has nothing to do with the quality of the competition. It was about the narrative as much as anything else. There's no need to compare teams 30 years apart because the contexts are so different. That was my point.

[SelfishPlayer]

The Dream Team is held as the standard, a standard that can't be surpassed unless equal blowouts are produced. You clearly can see that Team USA plays better teams today and two of the names on the Dream Team that are used to define their greatness over other US teams were actually not in their best form at the time they completed in 1992. This is like my Jordan never made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Pippen line. It's a line that only rings more and more true as we see Lebron looking dominant at the same age where Jordan was given a pass for not getting the Wizards to the playoffs. As time goes on we can see clearer. The Dream Team didn't play anyone while Magic and Bird were no longer great players.

Magic was pretty clearly still a great player, though, which was my point. He was a YEAR removed from coming 2nd to Jordan in the MVP vote, man. It's violently inaccurate that Magic wasn't still a great player. Bird, sure, he had his injuries and could barely be on the court due to his back. Magic, though, was a different story.

Yes, Team USA has stiffer competition today. That's fine, it's harder, the margins are smaller. That's normal. That doesn't really change anything about what happened in 92, though. There was still an aura about that team, and an international impact, which has nothing to do with the quality of the competition. It was about the narrative as much as anything else. There's no need to compare teams 30 years apart because the contexts are so different. That was my point.

Come on, why participate on a forum like this if you want to restrict conversation? Magic sat out an entire year before playing for the Dream Team. He gleefully talks about how Jordan dominated him and Bird in practice thus further cementing Jordan as the absolute best. Magic wasn't great anylonger. David Robinson was second in MVP voting in 95-96. He was injured and out almost the entire 96-97 season. When he returned in 97-98 he was nolonger a MVP level player. So that is proof that missing time as a 30 something can set your game back.