Bird 1983 - 1986 V Jokic 2020/2021/2023

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:51 pm

Bird 1983 - 1986 V Jokic 2020 - 2020/2021/2023

It looks more impressive that Bird won MVP 3 years in a row. And he did during Magics prime of whom nobody in todays league is on Magics level during those years.

mdonnelly1989 · Post #2 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:58 pm

Imo this maybe determine who people on RealGM actually think was a better player. I mean this is at their best. Assuming Jokic has closed to peaked out. That was clearly Birds peak of his prime.

Inspektor1312 · Post #3 » by **Inspektor1312** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:04 pm

Give me Bird. But I don’t think Jokić has peaked yet.

iggymcfrack · Post #4 » by **iggymcfrack** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:09 pm

Easily Jokic. He should have had 4 straight MVPs if not for an absurd media narrative. His stats blow Bird’s out of the water, and his insane passing mean he has greater non-box impact too. Over those 4 year spans, here are their stats:

Bird (reg season): 25.1 PER, .231 WS/48, 8.2 BPM
Bird (postseason): 23.6 PER, .211 WS/48, 8.7 BPM

Jokic (reg season): 31.6 PER, .301 WS/48, 13.0 BPM
Jokic (postseason): 30.7 PER, .259 WS/48, 11.9 BPM

Jokic also did it in a tougher era as there were almost no international players in the league in the mid-80s. I don’t see how the comparison is remotely close. Bird’s only edges are that he was a little better as a defender and that he played on a better team so he managed to get 2 rings. I’d take all 4 of Jokic’s seasons over any of Bird’s though and I don’t think it’s close.

SlimShady83 · Post #5 » by **SlimShady83** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:28 pm

Bird Easy

brackdan70 · Post #6 » by **brackdan70** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:33 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:Easily Jokic. He should have had 4 straight MVPs if not for an absurd media narrative. His stats blow Bird’s out of the water, and his insane passing mean he has greater non-box impact too. Over those 4 year spans, here are their stats:

Bird (reg season): 25.1 PER, .231 WS/48, 8.2 BPM
Bird (postseason): 23.6 PER, .211 WS/48, 8.7 BPM

Jokic (reg season): 31.6 PER, .301 WS/48, 13.0 BPM
Jokic (postseason): 30.7 PER, .259 WS/48, 11.9 BPM

Jokic also did it in a tougher era as there were almost no international players in the league in the mid-80s. I don’t see how the comparison is remotely close. Bird’s only edges are that he was a little better as a defender and that he played on a better team so he managed to get 2 rings. I’d take all 4 of Jokic’s seasons over any of Bird’s though and I don’t think it’s close.

You can’t really compare those stats across eras. Bird led the league in’s BPM in for 4 seasons and WinShares/48 for 2 during that timer frame. Jokic has led the league in both categories for the last 4 seasons.

Both were pretty dominant during those time periods.

Chokic · Post #7 » by **Chokic** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:39 pm

Give me Bird. He's in my top 5 all time. I doubt Jokic will reach that.

SNPA · Post #8 » by **SNPA** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:51 pm

Yes Jokic was close to getting four in a row. But Bird’s run of MVP votes is mind boggling.

Two great players. Defense is the separator. One of these guys was on all-defense teams.

Bird.

Post #9 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:54 pm

SNPA wrote:Yes Jokic was close to getting four in a row. But Bird’s run of MVP votes is mind boggling.

Two great players. Defense is the separator. One of these guys was on all-defense teams.

Bird.

Bird would not likely make All-D teams in this league, though, so I don't know how compelling an argument that is. It's like Jordan and Kobe making All-D teams well after they ought to have done. Kobe, especially.

Whopper_Sr · Post #10 » by **Whopper_Sr** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:00 am

I would struggle to pick Bird over Jokic in an all time draft.

SelfishPlayer · Post #11 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:04 am

I'll take Bird because Jokic can't compare if his three point shot isn't sinking. His three point shot has been bad. It was bad all playoffs and for the Olympics. Another plus Bird has on Jokic is that he is the closer. Jokic doesn't close games anywhere near as well as Bird.

MavsDirk41 · Post #12 » by **MavsDirk41** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:10 am

Jokic is amazing but Bird’s peak is goat worthy. And he was more versatile defensively.

Post #13 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:32 am

SelfishPlayer wrote:I'll take Bird because Jokic can't compare if his three point shot isn't sinking.

What? That makes not the first lick of sense. He takes less than 3.0 3PA/g and shoots almost 61% inside the arc on his career, what are you trying to say here?

SelfishPlayer · Post #14 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:37 am

tsherkin wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:I'll take Bird because Jokic can't compare if his three point shot isn't sinking.

What? That makes not the first lick of sense. He takes less than 3.0 3PA/g and shoots almost 61% inside the arc on his career, what are you trying to say here?

Jokic is a center that has never averaged a block or more per game. Bird did it twice!

Post #15 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:38 am

SelfishPlayer wrote:Jokic is a center that has never averaged a block or more per game. Bird did it twice!

Not relevant to a post of mine related to offense.

wegotthabeet · Post #16 » by **wegotthabeet** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:21 am

Pretty close but I have to give the edge to Bird.

Much better defender. More gritty. More feared. More competitive. 4 straight Finals appearances and winning two vs the showtime Lakers. I had to remember who the Nuggets beat and that was less than two years ago. Denver had arguably the easiest path to a championship ever. Even easier than Boston this year. Jokic won three mvps, should have been four, but the team success just isn’t there to put him over Bird.

Lockdown504090 · Post #17 » by **Lockdown504090** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:29 am

Inspektor1312 wrote:Give me Bird. But I don’t think Jokić has peaked yet.

where do you think he has room to improve? I think he can shoot it a bit better from 3 during the regular season.

kwajo · Post #18 » by **kwajo** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:50 am

wegotthabeet wrote:Pretty close but I have to give the edge to Bird.

Much better defender. More gritty. More feared. More competitive. 4 straight Finals appearances and winning two vs the showtime Lakers. I had to remember who the Nuggets beat and that was less than two years ago. Denver had arguably the easiest path to a championship ever. Even easier than Boston this year. Jokic won three mvps, should have been four, but the team success just isn’t there to put him over Bird.

I loved Bird, and I’m not saying you’re wrong either, but let’s not pretend that Bird didn’t have a phenomenal group of Hall of Fame players around him. Jokic with that good of a roster would probably have similar success.

theonlyclutch · Post #19 » by **theonlyclutch** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 6:01 am

Jokic is Bird but bigger, more efficient, with better shooting touch (easily so in the paint) , more physicality inside and better playoff resiliency, heck doesn't go around fighting people in pubs during the playoffs so better intangibles as well, him easily.

iggymcfrack · Post #20 » by **iggymcfrack** » Tue Aug 13, 2024 11:54 am

SelfishPlayer wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:I'll take Bird because Jokic can't compare if his three point shot isn't sinking.

What? That makes not the first lick of sense. He takes less than 3.0 3PA/g and shoots almost 61% inside the arc on his career, what are you trying to say here?

Jokic is a center that has never averaged a block or more per game. Bird did it twice!

Yeah, why don't you hang your hat on Bird averaging an extra 0.1 blocks per game when Jokic has points, rebounds, assists, and shooting efficiency.

Better 3 MVP Seasons Combined