TOR - NOP

[Colbinii]

Everyone here is wrong. I am right. None of RealGM understands the value of an All-Defensive 1st Team 3+D wing locked in long-term.

[Colbinii]

Remember guys, Herb Jones isn't an All-Star. He has limited value. Just like Mikal Bridges.

[psman2]

I think that deal could work if CJ gets rerouted to 3rd team.

The question is who is the third team that would be interested in a veteran like CJ, and send back assets for a rebuilding team?

I can potentially think of Atlanta, if they want to compete. They have a hole at the 2, and if they want to make the playoffs, they send out something like D Hunter + Cody Zeller (both negative contracts) along with the LA ‘25 1st

The move is to bring in the Clippers.

Toronto trades Poeltl, Agbaji
Raptors receive Missi, Powell
Powel is a heck of shooter last year and gives a good backup option to Barrett allowing Dick to season another year. Missi gets groomed by Olynyk.

New Orleans sends Missi, McCollum
Pelicans receive PJ Tucker, Agbaji, Poeltl
Poetlt becomes the center they need. Tucker a buy out candidate, Agbaji comes off the bench behind Jones.

Los Angeles trades Powell, Tucker
Clippers receive McCollum.
Not much difference between McCollum and Powell at this point but McCollum does have a better resume. Allows LA to get off of Tucker for limited cost.

Toronto was offered the Edey (9?) pick for Poeltl. Powell and Missi wouldn't be enough if that was their most recent offer. The overvaluing of Murphy and Jones is insane. Neither of these guys have creation or playmaking skills that would turn them into all star players. Maybe both aren't worth Poeltl, but in a 1 to 1 exchange it would be equal. A lot of posters fail to realize that no one is going to bail out the Pelicans without getting extra value. The Raptors know the Pelicans need to compete with investments in guys like CJ who are 32. Poeltl for Herb or Murphy 1 to 1 is fair value, but it isn't right now. The Raptors would likely ask for a pick or additional value if this were to ever happen. Powell is basically the same age as CJ, the Raptors are building a young team and have enough vets.

Where was the reported? I know a lot of Raptor fans thought Memphis would offer it, but I didn't see anyone outside of the Raptor fanbase that really thought that was going to be offered and Poeltl carries that trade value currently.

I think it is clear that the Raptors lost the Poeltl trade in hindsight, but it seems some among the Raptor fanbase want to hold the line that since you gave up pick 8 for him that must be his current trade value instead of they made a bad trade on value.

I think this equation is likely close to Poeltl's current trade value. MIssi/filler = Poelt.

[wegotthabeet]

Real talk, if the Pelicans don't trade for Poeltl, I'm having difficulty identifying another team that would. These Raptors pieces just don't have the value that's being attributed to them.

That’s valid. Some teams could certainly use him, the question is more do those teams have the right pieces to make a move for him.

New York could use him as a replacement for iHart, but how do they match salaries or provide value?

Memphis seems like an obvious fit, but maybe they just prefer to roll with Edey and JJJ splitting minutes.

The two LA teams make sense.

Golden State

Does OKC want to split minutes with iHart or have Pöltl as an insurance in case they move iHart in a blockbuster trade? Can Chet play the 4 full time?

He can provide value as a rotation big or starter playing 24 minutes a game, but you’re right that at least now before the season starts there’s not many options.

Orlando, Chicago, Phoenix?

[lordjeff05]

Toronto was offered the Edey (9?) pick for Poeltl. Powell and Missi wouldn't be enough if that was their most recent offer. The overvaluing of Murphy and Jones is insane. Neither of these guys have creation or playmaking skills that would turn them into all star players. Maybe both aren't worth Poeltl, but in a 1 to 1 exchange it would be equal. A lot of posters fail to realize that no one is going to bail out the Pelicans without getting extra value. The Raptors know the Pelicans need to compete with investments in guys like CJ who are 32. Poeltl for Herb or Murphy 1 to 1 is fair value, but it isn't right now. The Raptors would likely ask for a pick or additional value if this were to ever happen. Powell is basically the same age as CJ, the Raptors are building a young team and have enough vets.

Yeah I have a tough time understanding why you feel this way. Poetl is an average center on an average deal. Trey is about to get paid but he is on his rookie deal for one more year. He’s also the kind of player that virtually every team wants, big wing who can guard multiple positions and can shoot the absolute lights out at a high rate.

As has already been stated Herb was first team all defense. He shot 42 percent from 3 in his third year in the league. He’s got a VERY reasonable contract at about 15 per year. Good wing play is more valuable, and harder to find then average center help.

As for desperation for the Pels and implied leverage, if it gets especially dire, the Pelicans own all their picks and would use those before sacrificing young talent that is around the same age as their best player.

Poetl isn’t a guy that teams are kicking doors down to try and get so again I’m not sure I see the leverage Toronto supposedly has here.

[psman2]

Real talk, if the Pelicans don't trade for Poeltl, I'm having difficulty identifying another team that would. These Raptors pieces just don't have the value that's being attributed to them.

That’s valid. Some teams could certainly use him, the question is more do those teams have the right pieces to make a move for him.

New York could use him as a replacement for iHart, but how do they match salaries or provide value?

Memphis seems like an obvious fit, but maybe they just prefer to roll with Edey and JJJ splitting minutes.

The two LA teams make sense.

Golden State

Does OKC want to split minutes with iHart or have Pöltl as an insurance in case they move iHart in a blockbuster trade? Can Chet play the 4 full time?

He can provide value as a rotation big or starter playing 24 minutes a game, but you’re right that at least now before the season starts there’s not many options.

Orlando, Chicago, Phoenix?

Regarding Memphis I think that ship has most likely sailed. We are ducking the tax this year (just some 800k under) and plan on giving Edey all the minutes he can handle. I don't think the allure of Poeltl would motivate us to enter the tax. We would have to do a 4/5 for 1 type of trade just to match his money and not enter the tax and thus not have enough cap space to sign players to those roster spots afterwards and miss the tax. So unless in the unlikely event we trade Smart somewhere I don't think at this point will be looking at bringing in a expensive center this season.

Maybe something like Kennard/Rose/2nds for Kelly O would be something that could be considered at the deadline.

[ejftw]

CJ is 32 years old and the Raptors are rebuilding. Why do you think the Raptors would value him when they are already guard heavy?

When did Herb get this valuable? He isn't an all star or projected to be one. He's similar to Poeltl in that regard. I'd give the value advantage to Poeltl here since the Pelicans should be competing, yet they have a rookie projected to start. There is desperation there and other teams are going to prey on it. The Raptors were in this position recently and got spurred in a deal.

Then we have to include Murphy for salaries to match. Poeltl for Murphy and Jones looks lopsided so I included Dick, a recent lotto pick. This leaves Toronto with a C hole but if Missi is valued that high he could be replaced with a future pick from MIL.

I think that deal could work if CJ gets rerouted to 3rd team.

The question is who is the third team that would be interested in a veteran like CJ, and send back assets for a rebuilding team?

I can potentially think of Atlanta, if they want to compete. They have a hole at the 2, and if they want to make the playoffs, they send out something like D Hunter + Cody Zeller (both negative contracts) along with the LA ‘25 1st

The move is to bring in the Clippers.

Toronto trades Poeltl, Agbaji
Raptors receive Missi, Powell
Powel is a heck of shooter last year and gives a good backup option to Barrett allowing Dick to season another year. Missi gets groomed by Olynyk.

New Orleans sends Missi, McCollum
Pelicans receive PJ Tucker, Agbaji, Poeltl
Poetlt becomes the center they need. Tucker a buy out candidate, Agbaji comes off the bench behind Jones.

Los Angeles trades Powell, Tucker
Clippers receive McCollum.
Not much difference between McCollum and Powell at this point but McCollum does have a better resume. Allows LA to get off of Tucker for limited cost.

If there's not much difference, why are Clippers taking on an extra $10M next year for no compensation?

And even then, which I disagree, I think CJ is clearly better than Norm still (argue if the salary difference negates it is cool), the Clippers aren't going to roll with a Harden/CJ back court. Would be absolutely putrid.

[RollingWave]

Good lord, you have no idea how teams value players.

Even if Toronto attach every pick they could possibly do, NOP wouldn't remotely think about it.

[Mrakar]

I think CJ/Missi/1st for Poeltl/Agbaji has legs

CJ is 32 years old and the Raptors are rebuilding. Why do you think the Raptors would value him when they are already guard heavy?

When did Herb get this valuable? He isn't an all star or projected to be one. He's similar to Poeltl in that regard. I'd give the value advantage to Poeltl here since the Pelicans should be competing, yet they have a rookie projected to start. There is desperation there and other teams are going to prey on it. The Raptors were in this position recently and got spurred in a deal.

Then we have to include Murphy for salaries to match. Poeltl for Murphy and Jones looks lopsided so I included Dick, a recent lotto pick. This leaves Toronto with a C hole but if Missi is valued that high he could be replaced with a future pick from MIL.

Do you even watch basketball?
What has Dick done untill now to show you that he will be on Jones/Murphy level?
Jones is 1st team All-NBa defense player who shots 40% from 3 and has one of the most team friendly deals in the NBA right now.
Murphy is one of the NBAs top sharpahooters and also athletic as it gets with huge wingspan and good upside.
I wouldnt trade those 2 for Scottie Barnes, let alone that pile of crap.
You are like 5 unprotected 1sts short, at least.

[Thaddy]

I think CJ/Missi/1st for Poeltl/Agbaji has legs

CJ is 32 years old and the Raptors are rebuilding. Why do you think the Raptors would value him when they are already guard heavy?

When did Herb get this valuable? He isn't an all star or projected to be one. He's similar to Poeltl in that regard. I'd give the value advantage to Poeltl here since the Pelicans should be competing, yet they have a rookie projected to start. There is desperation there and other teams are going to prey on it. The Raptors were in this position recently and got spurred in a deal.

Then we have to include Murphy for salaries to match. Poeltl for Murphy and Jones looks lopsided so I included Dick, a recent lotto pick. This leaves Toronto with a C hole but if Missi is valued that high he could be replaced with a future pick from MIL.

Do you even watch basketball?
What has Dick done untill now to show you that he will be on Jones/Murphy level?
Jones is 1st team All-NBa defense player who shots 40% from 3 and has one of the most team friendly deals in the NBA right now.
Murphy is one of the NBAs top sharpahooters and also athletic as it gets with huge wingspan and good upside.
I wouldnt trade those 2 for Scottie Barnes, let alone that pile of crap.
You are like 5 unprotected 1sts short, at least.

There's a degree of overvaluing here. Jones and Murphy for Poeltl isn't close based on the age aspect and what NOP is planning to do. The defensive award Jones got wasn't deserved. There's a reason OG was worth way more than him, yet he didn't get any award.

But saying Barnes a former ROY and all star is lesser than Hubert and Murphy isn't a fair assessment. Neither Hubert or Murphy will ever be all stars. They have some pretty big limitations to overcome before getting there.

Maybe you watch basketball but you definitely haven't seen Barnes.

[Skybox]

Looks like a massive overpay by the Pels. IMO the two most valuable players in the deal are Murphy and Jones. I know NO has an urgent need for a credible center but this is rediculous.

I'd also argue that rather than help tank, the talent upgrade heading to Toronto makes them a solid play-in team (9th in the EC or so) even with a weak center rotation.

Missi is arguably the third most valuable prospect.

[louc1970]

I think that deal could work if CJ gets rerouted to 3rd team.

The question is who is the third team that would be interested in a veteran like CJ, and send back assets for a rebuilding team?

I can potentially think of Atlanta, if they want to compete. They have a hole at the 2, and if they want to make the playoffs, they send out something like D Hunter + Cody Zeller (both negative contracts) along with the LA ‘25 1st

The move is to bring in the Clippers.

Toronto trades Poeltl, Agbaji
Raptors receive Missi, Powell
Powel is a heck of shooter last year and gives a good backup option to Barrett allowing Dick to season another year. Missi gets groomed by Olynyk.

New Orleans sends Missi, McCollum
Pelicans receive PJ Tucker, Agbaji, Poeltl
Poetlt becomes the center they need. Tucker a buy out candidate, Agbaji comes off the bench behind Jones.

Los Angeles trades Powell, Tucker
Clippers receive McCollum.
Not much difference between McCollum and Powell at this point but McCollum does have a better resume. Allows LA to get off of Tucker for limited cost.

If there's not much difference, why are Clippers taking on an extra $10M next year for no compensation?

And even then, which I disagree, I think CJ is clearly better than Norm still (argue if the salary difference negates it is cool), the Clippers aren't going to roll with a Harden/CJ back court. Would be absolutely putrid.

That sounds like the Clippers to me.

[daoneandonly]

Its one of the worst time for sports fans right now, preseason NFL sucks and the NBA season hasnt started yet. With boredom comes a tendency to troll and use forums like this to past the time. Thats all this is, a troll attempt, nobody with any degree of objectivity can think this is remotely a real offer.

[LightTheBeam]

I actually like something based around using Ingram instead of CJ.

Ingram is still only 26 years old and Masai could look at it as a cheap purchase of a wing.

Ingram for Poeltl/Boucher/1st ?

[Tripod]

I actually like something based around using Ingram instead of CJ.

Ingram is still only 26 years old and Masai could look at it as a cheap purchase of a wing.

Ingram for Poeltl/Boucher/1st ?

Fills one hole with a guy you have to overpay to keep only to create another hole at C and losing a future 1st. Not going to happen.

As for the OP, Raps fans on their board told him this was a bad deal for NO but he didn't listen and took the deal here. Just so people don't think "Raps fans" see this as fair value.

[Mrakar]

CJ is 32 years old and the Raptors are rebuilding. Why do you think the Raptors would value him when they are already guard heavy?

When did Herb get this valuable? He isn't an all star or projected to be one. He's similar to Poeltl in that regard. I'd give the value advantage to Poeltl here since the Pelicans should be competing, yet they have a rookie projected to start. There is desperation there and other teams are going to prey on it. The Raptors were in this position recently and got spurred in a deal.

Then we have to include Murphy for salaries to match. Poeltl for Murphy and Jones looks lopsided so I included Dick, a recent lotto pick. This leaves Toronto with a C hole but if Missi is valued that high he could be replaced with a future pick from MIL.

Do you even watch basketball?
What has Dick done untill now to show you that he will be on Jones/Murphy level?
Jones is 1st team All-NBa defense player who shots 40% from 3 and has one of the most team friendly deals in the NBA right now.
Murphy is one of the NBAs top sharpahooters and also athletic as it gets with huge wingspan and good upside.
I wouldnt trade those 2 for Scottie Barnes, let alone that pile of crap.
You are like 5 unprotected 1sts short, at least.

There's a degree of overvaluing here. Jones and Murphy for Poeltl isn't close based on the age aspect and what NOP is planning to do. The defensive award Jones got wasn't deserved. There's a reason OG was worth way more than him, yet he didn't get any award.

But saying Barnes a former ROY and all star is lesser than Hubert and Murphy isn't a fair assessment. Neither Hubert or Murphy will ever be all stars. They have some pretty big limitations to overcome before getting there.

Maybe you watch basketball but you definitely haven't seen Barnes.

Not deserved?
Anunoby plays his whole career with good defenders around him, Herb plays with Zion, Ingram, CJ and Jonas.....
Anunoby earns 45 milion per season and Herb 13. Every **** GM in the league would take Herb with 13 over OG with 45(and his injuries..)

Hubert? that says it all

[WhatsaTDot]

Thread started poorly and somehow managed to get worse with Barnes not being enough in a counter offer and needing 5 unprotected picks added.