RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[TorontoBarneys]

Gotta win another 2 championships for me to anoint him #2 all-time.

[Onus]

He's not a GOAT level player when his three point shot isn't falling. Last season, the playoffs, and the Olympics his three point shot wasn't good enough. You add that in with him never averaging a full block per game in his career and he can't be in GOAT conversation.

Jokic 2023 playoff run was insane. He was an incredible shooter in that run. This past playoff his 3 was not falling and was a big reason Minnesota was able to win. They were letting him shoot so it helped shrink the court, he wasn't giving as much space to his teammates as he did in 2023.

[SelfishPlayer]

He's not a GOAT level player when his three point shot isn't falling. Last season, the playoffs, and the Olympics his three point shot wasn't good enough. You add that in with him never averaging a full block per game in his career and he can't be in GOAT conversation.

Jokic 2023 playoff run was insane. He was an incredible shooter in that run. This past playoff his 3 was not falling and was a big reason Minnesota was able to win. They were letting him shoot so it helped shrink the court, he wasn't giving as much space to his teammates as he did in 2023.

Jokic no longer looks like a GOAT type player when that three point shot isn't falling. It makes the offense less dynamic.

[dhsilv2]

Thoughts?

I mean...but what does your barber think?

[dhsilv2]

And while we're here, the 2nd best player ever while fully healthy never goes out like that in the playoffs like he did vs. Minny a few months ago, while in his age 28 season at that.

No great player in a game 7 against the best defense in the league puts up 34 19 7?

[dhsilv2]

And while we're here, the 2nd best player ever while fully healthy never goes out like that in the playoffs like he did vs. Minny a few months ago, while in his age 28 season at that.

34Pts 19Reb 7Ast?

Sorry but if you want to be the best player ever you can't lose that series. Excuses aren't made when you're talking that high of a level

Ah...the old "if you want to be the best, you gotta team up with the best" argument.

[Onus]

He's not a GOAT level player when his three point shot isn't falling. Last season, the playoffs, and the Olympics his three point shot wasn't good enough. You add that in with him never averaging a full block per game in his career and he can't be in GOAT conversation.

Jokic 2023 playoff run was insane. He was an incredible shooter in that run. This past playoff his 3 was not falling and was a big reason Minnesota was able to win. They were letting him shoot so it helped shrink the court, he wasn't giving as much space to his teammates as he did in 2023.

Jokic no longer looks like a GOAT type player when that three point shot isn't falling. It makes the offense less dynamic.

I completely agree. In 2023 I think he looked like a GOAT like player. In 2024 he looked like a great player. His numbers may have looked similar but visually and matchup wise he just wasn't as big of a factor because Minnesota was able to sag off of him which mucked up the Nuggets offense. They couldn't score at all in that collapse in game 7 and that's what is supposed to be Jokic's GOAT claim.

[SelfishPlayer]

Jokic 2023 playoff run was insane. He was an incredible shooter in that run. This past playoff his 3 was not falling and was a big reason Minnesota was able to win. They were letting him shoot so it helped shrink the court, he wasn't giving as much space to his teammates as he did in 2023.

Jokic no longer looks like a GOAT type player when that three point shot isn't falling. It makes the offense less dynamic.

I completely agree. In 2023 I think he looked like a GOAT like player. In 2024 he looked like a great player. His numbers may have looked similar but visually and matchup wise he just wasn't as big of a factor because Minnesota was able to sag off of him which mucked up the Nuggets offense. They couldn't score at all in that collapse in game 7 and that's what is supposed to be Jokic's GOAT claim.

Another observation from last postseason was Luka not scoring 40 or more in a single game. Luka needs to be more of a scoring threat to apply "GOAT" level pressure on the opposition. Jokic needs to be a great three point shooter to apply "GOAT" level pressure on the opposition. I think the fact that they are overall so productive it conceals when they fail to perform exceptionally in those areas. Luka needs to produce back breaking scoring barages. Jordan and LeBron would play excellent floor games and at some point in the game just decide to turn up the pressure offensively causing the opponent to have to adjust to them or even panic.

[Onus]

Jokic no longer looks like a GOAT type player when that three point shot isn't falling. It makes the offense less dynamic.

I completely agree. In 2023 I think he looked like a GOAT like player. In 2024 he looked like a great player. His numbers may have looked similar but visually and matchup wise he just wasn't as big of a factor because Minnesota was able to sag off of him which mucked up the Nuggets offense. They couldn't score at all in that collapse in game 7 and that's what is supposed to be Jokic's GOAT claim.

Another observation from last postseason was Luka not scoring 40 or more in a single game. Luka needs to be more of a scoring threat to apply "GOAT" level pressure on the opposition. Jokic needs to be a great three point shooter to apply "GOAT" level pressure on the opposition. I think the fact that they are overall so productive it conceals when they fail to perform exceptionally in those areas. Luka needs to produce back breaking scoring barages. Jordan and LeBron would play excellent floor games and at some point in the game just decide to turn up the pressure offensively causing the opponent to have to adjust to them or even panic.

Luka really had a disappointing finals appearance to me. He wasn't able to force the Celtics to double him, so his style of play just didn't get anyone else involved.

[GSWFan1994]

Mods are working overtime merging all those threads,

[LaLover11]

Yeah totally agree. It’s not like what Lebron did in his prime losing to a Mavs team with the loaded Heat. Ask you this what team is better that Heat team or last year’s Nuggets team. Lol.

Timberwolves didn't beat the Back to Back Champion KB/Gasol/Phil Lakers, Big 3 Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder in the Western Conference lol

Mavs we're way better and I mean way better than the Gobert Timberwolves

Again the Heat was a super team. Last year Nuggets were not even close in comparison. The Heat were over whelming favourites to win. Prime Wade Prime Lebron prime Bosh

Not 1 not 2 not 3…

If you notice in your mini clip you posted.... Wade is already holding his knees because they we're shot

Imagine calling 2011 Wade Prime lmao

He was already on his decline bad knees and other injuries. He was also never a good fit with LeBron and Bosh.

Steph, LeBron & Bosh or LeBron, Bosh & Dwight would've been a much better fit vs 6'2 Wade with no outside shot and injuries

[NyKnicks1714]

Why isn't Wilt in this poll? He's probably not the GOAT and IMO it's just about impossible to accurately compare Wilt and Russell with today's players, but there are exactly 5 players that you could make a singular GOAT case for without looking crazy, and he's one of them.

If someone who watched Wilt play tells me he's the best ever, I'll disagree but think "fair enough". If someone tells me they think Kobe or Magic or Curry is the single best player in NBA history, I'm not going to take them seriously at all.

[CodeBreaker]

Timberwolves didn't beat the Back to Back Champion KB/Gasol/Phil Lakers, Big 3 Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder in the Western Conference lol

Mavs we're way better and I mean way better than the Gobert Timberwolves

Again the Heat was a super team. Last year Nuggets were not even close in comparison. The Heat were over whelming favourites to win. Prime Wade Prime Lebron prime Bosh

Not 1 not 2 not 3…

If you notice in your mini clip you posted.... Wade is already holding his knees because they we're shot

Imagine calling 2011 Wade Prime lmao

He was already on his decline bad knees and other injuries. He was also never a good fit with LeBron and Bosh.

Steph, LeBron & Bosh or LeBron, Bosh & Dwight would've been a much better fit vs 6'2 Wade with no outside shot and injuries

Lmaooo you gave me a good laugh

[LaLover11]

Again the Heat was a super team. Last year Nuggets were not even close in comparison. The Heat were over whelming favourites to win. Prime Wade Prime Lebron prime Bosh

Not 1 not 2 not 3…

If you notice in your mini clip you posted.... Wade is already holding his knees because they we're shot

Imagine calling 2011 Wade Prime lmao

He was already on his decline bad knees and other injuries. He was also never a good fit with LeBron and Bosh.

Steph, LeBron & Bosh or LeBron, Bosh & Dwight would've been a much better fit vs 6'2 Wade with no outside shot and injuries

Lmaooo you gave me a good laugh

You're welcome!

Bosh also had health problems starting in 2014

[AleksandarN]

If you notice in your mini clip you posted.... Wade is already holding his knees because they we're shot

Imagine calling 2011 Wade Prime lmao

He was already on his decline bad knees and other injuries. He was also never a good fit with LeBron and Bosh.

Steph, LeBron & Bosh or LeBron, Bosh & Dwight would've been a much better fit vs 6'2 Wade with no outside shot and injuries

Lmaooo you gave me a good laugh

You're welcome!

Bosh also had health problems starting in 2014

We are talking about the 2010-11 season. He was healthy. Btw side note it wasn’t his knee that was issue it was his shoulder that he missed the majority of time prior. To imply he was grabbing his “bad knee” during the press conference is hilarious.

[SpurNani]

And while we're here, the 2nd best player ever while fully healthy never goes out like that in the playoffs like he did vs. Minny a few months ago, while in his age 28 season at that.

No great player in a game 7 against the best defense in the league puts up 34 19 7?

He had a 20 point lead in the second half on his home floor in game 7 and absolutely crumbled and gassed out.

Not GOAT level stuff

[bledredwine]

Again the Heat was a super team. Last year Nuggets were not even close in comparison. The Heat were over whelming favourites to win. Prime Wade Prime Lebron prime Bosh

Not 1 not 2 not 3…

If you notice in your mini clip you posted.... Wade is already holding his knees because they we're shot

Imagine calling 2011 Wade Prime lmao

He was already on his decline bad knees and other injuries. He was also never a good fit with LeBron and Bosh.

Steph, LeBron & Bosh or LeBron, Bosh & Dwight would've been a much better fit vs 6'2 Wade with no outside shot and injuries

Lmaooo you gave me a good laugh

I actually lol'd

[dhsilv2]

And while we're here, the 2nd best player ever while fully healthy never goes out like that in the playoffs like he did vs. Minny a few months ago, while in his age 28 season at that.

No great player in a game 7 against the best defense in the league puts up 34 19 7?

He had a 20 point lead in the second half on his home floor in game 7 and absolutely crumbled and gassed out.

Not GOAT level stuff

We're talking the game he scored 21 in the second half and 14 in the 4th? That's crumbling?

[Edrees]

His team is the reigning EuroLeague champion and they're a 7 times winner of the competition.
Some of the greatest European players ever have played for that team.
So i say he has a thing or two to say about basketball.

So you think Jokic actually has an argument to be top 2 all time?

Players/coaches obviously know basketball but they’re even more biased than us and we’ve seen time and time again they can have some crazy takes. Even MJ has been a terrible owner.

I love Jokic but he’s not close to being top 10.

I don't have Jokic in my top15. That's my opinion.
If giannakopoulos has a different opinion he has the right to express it.
And bias has nothing to do here. Jokic is Serbian, he isn't Greek.

The bias isn't that Jokic is Serbian or Greek, it's that he's a european player, it's to minimize the perception of the gap between euroleague players and NBA players. If people thought the gap was smaller (aka a european player is good enough to be the GOAT), Euroleague has only to benefit.

[Iwasawitness]

Yeah totally agree. It’s not like what Lebron did in his prime losing to a Mavs team with the loaded Heat. Ask you this what team is better that Heat team or last year’s Nuggets team. Lol.

Timberwolves didn't beat the Back to Back Champion KB/Gasol/Phil Lakers, Big 3 Durant, Harden, Westbrook Thunder in the Western Conference lol

Mavs we're way better and I mean way better than the Gobert Timberwolves

Again the Heat was a super team. Last year Nuggets were not even close in comparison. The Heat were over whelming favourites to win. Prime Wade Prime Lebron prime Bosh

Not 1 not 2 not 3…

Here we go again with low IQ posts because people want their takes to be true so badly…

Learn what overwhelming favorites means.