Today’s NBA: Karl Malone vs Dirk Nowitzki

[Matt15]

Who would you rather build a team around in todays NBA?

[SlimShady83]

It will be Dirk In this contest no doubt, but wouldn't say no to Karl Malone, depending who my PG Is though as well

[tsherkin]

Dirk.

Malone was no defensive anchor, though a quality man-on defender and defensive rebounder. Very good RS scorer. Not quite on Dirk's level as a postseason performer and didnt have a 3.

Id take Dirk but honestly? Malone would be a beast in today's game and he wouldnt have BLEH for perimeter scoring support as he did in his actual career. So he would be far from a bad choice as well. But yeah, playoff Dirk was a demon.

[rand]

I'd take Dirk today for the systemic impact of his shooting but this poll result is not representative of the two players in an environment-neutral context. I'd take Karl in any environment before the mid 00s.

[tsherkin]

I'd take Dirk today for the systemic impact of his shooting but this poll result is not representative of the two players in an environment-neutral context. I'd take Karl in any environment before the mid 00s.

Honestly, you put Dirk on Utah in the 90s and they beat the Bulls at least once, probably in 97.

[falcolombardi]

I'd take Dirk today for the systemic impact of his shooting but this poll result is not representative of the two players in an environment-neutral context. I'd take Karl in any environment before the mid 00s.

Honestly, you put Dirk on Utah in the 90s and they beat the Bulls at least once, probably in 97.

I am not usually one to defend karl malone due to considering him a terrible human being nor do i think he was as good as dirk

But i feel for the bulls matchup specifically i think is closer

Malone passing was too needed in a team that had exactly 2 on ball playmakers and some shooters around and his -defensive rebounding- was unvaluable in a matchup vs a team that often won on the back of their offensive rebounding like the 2nd three peat bulls

Utah keeping rodman and co controlled in the boards was utah biggest (only?) Matchup edge vs a team that had better shooters, better scorers and better defenders but by the late 90's was dependant on possesion advantage to be a strong offense

[D.Brasco]

Dirk was literally the harbinger of the present day stretch big/euro MVP.

He'd fit in like a glove today.

[Djoker]

I think I'm in the minority here but I consider Malone the better player. In today's game, Dirk of course fits so well as a shooter but is probably even more of a defensive liability. Karl's scoring efficiency is worse than Dirk's but he's also better in all other areas of the game be it rebounding, passing, or defense. And he also gets better today with how much easier it is to score at the rim and the transition opportunities.

[Cavsfansince84]

Dirk.

Malone was no defensive anchor, though a quality man-on defender and defensive rebounder. Very good RS scorer. Not quite on Dirk's level as a postseason performer and didnt have a 3.

Id take Dirk but honestly? Malone would be a beast in today's game and he wouldnt have BLEH for perimeter scoring support as he did in his actual career. So he would be far from a bad choice as well. But yeah, playoff Dirk was a demon.

Overall I agree with this and I'd say that due to Dirk's height/length/shot that I'd prefer to build around him in any era. Its much closer from the 80's and earlier(not just because of the 3 pt shot but also the faster pace will favor Malone) but Dirk's game pretty much transcends any era and Dirk might even be the better rebounder in the playoffs.

[pillwenney]

A lot of things to consider here.

Is Malone's man defense as valuable in the modern era? I could be recalling wrong, but I think of him as being a good man defender in his era largely because PF was a totally different position, and having someone with his hulk strength made more sense then. How does that translate to constantly having to switch and chase shooters now? I have no doubt he'd still be fine and it would likely still be an advantage over Dirk, but would it be the asset it was? I have my doubts.

On the other hand, I think Dirk would be more of a liability now. I think, even at his athletic peak, you'd be hiding him a lot defensively now. Both of these players benefited defensively from playing in a time when PFs played more like traditional bigs.

Regardless (and because of that), I'd think a translated-to-this-era Malone would likely be slimmed down. He could lose plenty of his bulk and still be probably the strongest player at his position (sans, I guess, Zion).

It's tempting to say that Dirk's game translates better, and maybe it does. On the other hand, an all-time elite roll man (who is also a good passer) in an era with way more spacing is really nothing to sneeze at. It would also be very foreseeable to see Malone extend his range out to 3.

It's also, I think, a little short-sighted to say Dirk's game would translate as perfectly as people think--or at least in the way people imagine. Sure, he's the best shooting big ever, but was largely manifested with him working out of the post, which is rarer now. I think he could and would adjust pretty easily. My point is it might not look exactly like it looked 15 years ago.

Anyway, with all of that said, I still take Dirk. When you're talking about first option comparisons like this, reliable, high-pressure, isolation bucket-getting tends to win out (with some exceptions), and that's still pretty clearly Dirk for me.

[Blame Rasho]

Let’s consider that Draymond Green actually has more playoff threes than Dirk. What does that say about this recent era. Dirk was a mofo, a 25/10 machine in an era that it really wasn’t easy to put up stats like that. I am also doubtful how good Malone would be without Stockton for the majority of career during his prime.

[tsherkin]

Let’s consider that Draymond Green actually has more playoff threes than Dirk. What does that say about this rent era. Dirk was a mofo, a 25/10 machine in an era that it really wasn’t easy to put up stats like that. I am also doubtful how good Malone would be without Stockton for the majority of career during his prime.

Malone would be fine, especially today. He was a nasty power post guy for like a dozen years, dominant in transition and addes range and pasaing over time. Would be fairly trivial to support his style in today's environment.

[D.Brasco]

Let’s consider that Draymond Green actually has more playoff threes than Dirk. What does that say about this recent era. Dirk was a mofo, a 25/10 machine in an era that it really wasn’t easy to put up stats like that. I am also doubtful how good Malone would be without Stockton for the majority of career during his prime.

Before Dirk it was literally a novelty, that anyone 7' would even attempt a 3-pointer. Someone like Shaq would throw one up for jokes right before the clock expired.

For someone Dirk's size and position to even attempt 3 or 4 3's a game, which is actually below average today was revolutionary.

Just like Wemby has said he's based his game growing on KD, KD said similar about Dirk.

[tsherkin]

It's also, I think, a little short-sighted to say Dirk's game would translate as perfectly as people think--or at least in the way people imagine. Sure, he's the best shooting big ever, but was largely manifested with him working out of the post, which is rarer now. I think he could and would adjust pretty easily. My point is it might not look exactly like it looked 15 years ago.

That isnt quite correct.

Younger Dirk was a face-up slasher. He added post game more over time. He would DICE today's league up as a scorer. If you look at him from 08-11, when he was in his hey day but WITH his apex post game, it'd be nasty.

Dude was QUICK when he was younger. Nasty pull up, dunking on people, all of it.

[homecourtloss]

It's also, I think, a little short-sighted to say Dirk's game would translate as perfectly as people think--or at least in the way people imagine. Sure, he's the best shooting big ever, but was largely manifested with him working out of the post, which is rarer now. I think he could and would adjust pretty easily. My point is it might not look exactly like it looked 15 years ago.

That isnt quite correct.

Younger Dirk was a face-up slasher. He added post game more over time. He would DICE today's league up as a scorer. If you look at him from 08-11, when he was in his hey day but WITH his apex post game, it'd be nasty.

Dude was QUICK when he was younger. Nasty pull up, dunking on people, all of it.

Great handles as well that were used less and less frequently as his career went on. He was springy, fluid, quick in transition, could go left or right, and was incredibly aesthetic to watch. The question I always have with players such as Dirk is if he were to come up in this era, would he work to keep that athleticism and/or would? his body allow it (it’s never a guarantee that you remain that atheltic even if you put work in to it)?

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[tsherkin]

Great handles as well that were used less and less frequently as his career went on. He was springy, fluid, quick in transition, could go left or right, and was incredibly aesthetic to watch. The question I always have with players such as Dirk is if he were to come up in this era, would he work to keep that athleticism and/or would? his body allow it (it’s never a guarantee that you remain that atheltic even if you put work in to it)?

Yeah, he did a lot of work with his body even in his own career. Why would he change that?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Dirk.

Malone was no defensive anchor, though a quality man-on defender and defensive rebounder. Very good RS scorer. Not quite on Dirk's level as a postseason performer and didnt have a 3.

Id take Dirk but honestly? Malone would be a beast in today's game and he wouldnt have BLEH for perimeter scoring support as he did in his actual career. So he would be far from a bad choice as well. But yeah, playoff Dirk was a demon.

Karl Malone was not a defensive anchor but was very good defensively.
Karl Malone was significantly better than Dirk defensively.

I am not aware of any 1990s year when there were 5 starting forwards better at defense than Karl Malone.

Just because the league chucks 3s like crazy now does not mean that the league needs 3 point shooting more than it needed 3 point shooting in the 1990s. If fact it is the opposite; when 3 point shooters were more scarce 3 point shooter were more valuable in the 1990s. 1980s are different because the few good 3 point shooters the league had in the 1980s might only shoot 1 3 per game. 1980s players and coaches did not understand the value of the 3 and did not understand that normal players should be capable of hitting 3s.

The fact that we are a 3 points shooting league now is not an advantage for Dirk in a comparison to Malone. Karl Malone would benefit from the smalls being better at shooting 3s now more than Dirk would benefit from the improved 3 point shooting of the smalls.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Let’s consider that Draymond Green actually has more playoff threes than Dirk. What does that say about this recent era. Dirk was a mofo, a 25/10 machine in an era that it really wasn’t easy to put up stats like that. I am also doubtful how good Malone would be without Stockton for the majority of career during his prime.

Before Dirk it was literally a novelty, that anyone 7' would even attempt a 3-pointer. Someone like Shaq would throw one up for jokes right before the clock expired.

For someone Dirk's size and position to even attempt 3 or 4 3's a game, which is actually below average today was revolutionary.

Just like Wemby has said he's based his game growing on KD, KD said similar about Dirk.

Dirk used to be listed at 6’ 11”. Somebody decided to increase Dirk’s height by an inch.
Dirk was not that much taller than some other 3 point shooters who were a little under 7 foot.

I am thinking about Bird, Tom Chambers, Sam Perkins, Rashard Lewis, and Bill Laimbeer.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I'd take Dirk today for the systemic impact of his shooting but this poll result is not representative of the two players in an environment-neutral context. I'd take Karl in any environment before the mid 00s.

Honestly, you put Dirk on Utah in the 90s and they beat the Bulls at least once, probably in 97.

Nah; Jazz were not actually that close to the Bulls. Bulls had another gear if they needed it.

Malone was more physical and nasty than Dirk. Malone was willing to hurt people. Malone wore down opponents more than Dirk did.

Lets do 1998 when the Bulls are worse and Byron Russell, Shandon Anderson, Eisley and Ostertag have improved. I do not want to replace Karl Malone but rather give Karl Malone a teammate that has peak Dirk fused onto and combined with 1998 Ostertag creating a player with the best qualities of Dirk and Ostertag.

Now this Dirk modified 1998 Jazz would beat the Bulls.

[EmpireFalls]

Malone would be Guerschon Yabusele in today’s NBA.