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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1061 » by Jez2983 » Tue Aug 20, 2024 8:28 am

emunney wrote:
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Guess they're oversampling b2bs now to try to build some power into their estimates.


There is literally no intervention that exists that prevents injury.

As I've said 1000 times, load reduction is for risk management and performance enhancement. This is not specifically directed at you, but people seem unable to get past the idea that load management doesn't stop people hurting themselves.


Do you mean to say no intervention that prevents all injury? Surely there are things you can do that can make some types of injury less likely, or is the "risk management" part pure fantasy?

My understanding of load management as practiced as that it's primarily about chronic injuries, specifically the types of repetitive stress injuries that are known to respond to rest. Is the performance aspect the bigger piece, or even the only piece with any validity?

I'll hang up and listen.


Mate, these are like my favourite questions :lol:

What you are doing, which lots of people don't, is that you are correctly distinguishing between risk reduction and injury prevention. Load managament ostensibly assists with risk reduction, certainly by reducing accumulated load or even by taking the player off the court, thereby reducing injury opportunity. Tim Gabbett has done some somewhat contentious work on this with the acute vs. chronic workload ratio stuff he's done. If the acute load is >1.5x chronic, injury rates increase, >1.7x greatly increase. I talked to him about this, he said it isn't a bible, if people don't overload they don't improve their performance, it's just another data point to reflect on.

Much of the 'rest' stuff is player specific. If after 2 games, Giannis does a light session and he says he's 4/10 fatigued (I'm being arbitrary here) the S&C staff note this. Does a similar session 4 weeks later, 7/10 fatigued, they may think he's cooked and that may trigger a rest. They'd look at loads of other stuff too, all his GPS/movement data, schedule, team requirements, where the game is, all sorts of stuff.

As for things that respond to rest, outside of that total body load, theoretically tendon issues will feel better with rest, but they still need load to recover. Generally they hate dynamic exercise, but heavy weights are OK. The other one is bony stuff. If he has bony stuff, he just rests.

You also mention 'validity' - it's a really tough concept. Applying research findings is tricky, college athlete samples are not the same as the NBA. And even then, Giannis is not the same as 90% of the NBA. There's 'merit' in load management for risk reduction and performance enhancement that needs to be considered per each individual case. My main point is that people are too absolute with 'load management prevents injury' which isn't a true statement. Rested athletes can still get injured.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1062 » by raferfenix » Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:54 pm

AussieBuck wrote:I go back to Paul Pierce never seeming like a PF until he became one at the end of his career.


Other variable is Giannis focusing on leading the league in rebounds and being DPOY.

Dame theoretically gives him the latitude to expend more energy on those fronts rather than having to control the offense all game.

Khris' limitations defensively and on the boards wouldn't matter as much if Giannis were to be a beast of a 5 on that end of the court.

Then like with Pierce it'd be about the big benefits we get offensively.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1063 » by jute2003 » Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:09 pm

At least we're trying to talk khris into a pf this year instead of a sg as recently as last year.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1064 » by GBPackers47 » Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:15 pm

raferfenix wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:I go back to Paul Pierce never seeming like a PF until he became one at the end of his career.


Other variable is Giannis focusing on leading the league in rebounds and being DPOY.

Dame theoretically gives him the latitude to expend more energy on those fronts rather than having to control the offense all game.

Khris' limitations defensively and on the boards wouldn't matter as much if Giannis were to be a beast of a 5 on that end of the court.

Then like with Pierce it'd be about the big benefits we get offensively.


Don't underestimate Delon Wright's defensive abilities and the effect it could have on Giannis as well. I think he comes off the bench to start games, but he is grossly underrated on defense and a lineup with Dame/Wright/Giannis would allow each of them to do what they do best.

Wright has also never played with Superstar talent like this before, so I think his game elevates even more. This is the same team that propped Malik's TS up 8% just by other guys drawing attention.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1065 » by raferfenix » Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:31 pm

Looking back at what Horst said about Wright and Prince to Eric Nehm a few weeks back:

Delon just gave us a ton of flexibility. He was not only an early target, he was a top target for us. Again, credit to Delon, he chose fit and opportunity over everything. He wanted to contribute to winning, wanted to be part of a great culture, wanted to play with people that he’s familiar with, and in a system that he thought he could excel in.

Delon is a really successful, versatile player. We targeted him because he can start at or back up two positions, maybe even three. He’s a big guard. He’s a defensive-minded guard. He’s playoff proven. He’s able to kind of generate turnovers, which is another thing that Gary does also. Both those guys are guys that generate turnovers on the ball and off the ball in the backcourt, something that we struggled with last year and we think helps in the playoffs. He’s capable of playing on the ball in pick-and-roll. He’s capable of playing off the ball as a catch-and-shoot threat from 3. He can finish around the rim.

So, for us, the versatility of Delon being able to play at either backcourt positions as a starter, as a backup, just with his experiences, was an absolute no-brainer. He was a high, high target for us and we were very fortunate that we were able to get him early.


Taurean is a big wing. Versatile offensive player, versatile defensive player. Capable of starting, capable of coming off the bench. Started almost 50 games for the Lakers, played in almost all their games last year. He played 78 games last year. He’s a good 3-point shooter on a good amount of attempts, which is always important for our team. Highly effective in guarding tough matchups, really two through four, he has guarded some of the best players in the league throughout his career and even last year. He’s had really difficult matchups and done a really good job at it, so that’s something that pops for us. And he’s just athletic. So size, athleticism, age (30), really felt like that fit the things that we’re trying to accomplish in our offseason.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5658320/2024/07/26/bucks-jon-horst-qa-giannis-lillard/
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1066 » by Fotis St » Tue Aug 20, 2024 6:05 pm

Bottom line wherever you wish to hide Khris on D, you cannot, cause at the playoffs opponents coaches label him and Brook as vulnerabilities and keep setting picks until one of those two switches to their best player. So I think Khris is basically like Spain's NT Rudy Fernadez... a microwave bench player that provides scoring off the bench when needed especially on 4th quarter.
Brook and Khris are the ideal off the bench leaders, they are just overpaid like 300% above their true value.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1067 » by SupremeHustle » Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:35 pm

During the Dame interview on Teague's podcast, Jeff Teague's response to playing point guard on a Giannis team is hilarious.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1068 » by SupremeHustle » Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:37 pm

SupremeHustle wrote:During the Dame interview on Teague's podcast, Jeff Teague's response to playing point guard on a Giannis team is hilarious.


42:19 mark.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1069 » by Milbucks96 » Tue Aug 20, 2024 9:00 pm

I like Teague as an nba personality. His honesty, story telling, and humor reminds me of the early Jalen rose and bill Simmons stuff. The podcast sucks though and it’s mostly his brother and friend that’s bringing it down, though Teague can be a lot better too. I just watch the viral clips, can never get through an entire episode.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1070 » by TroyD92 » Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:27 pm

Fotis St wrote:Bottom line wherever you wish to hide Khris on D, you cannot, cause at the playoffs opponents coaches label him and Brook as vulnerabilities and keep setting picks until one of those two switches to their best player. So I think Khris is basically like Spain's NT Rudy Fernadez... a microwave bench player that provides scoring off the bench when needed especially on 4th quarter.
Brook and Khris are the ideal off the bench leaders, they are just overpaid like 300% above their true value.



This is an insane take even for you
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Kidd would have curb stomped him.

Maybe if his name was Denise instead of Dennis.


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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1071 » by SupremeHustle » Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:46 pm

Milbucks96 wrote:I like Teague as an nba personality. His honesty, story telling, and humor reminds me of the early Jalen rose and bill Simmons stuff. The podcast sucks though and it’s mostly his brother and friend that’s bringing it down, though Teague can be a lot better too. I just watch the viral clips, can never get through an entire episode.


One of those dude's is his brother? I had no idea.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1072 » by Milbucks96 » Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:17 am

SupremeHustle wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:I like Teague as an nba personality. His honesty, story telling, and humor reminds me of the early Jalen rose and bill Simmons stuff. The podcast sucks though and it’s mostly his brother and friend that’s bringing it down, though Teague can be a lot better too. I just watch the viral clips, can never get through an entire episode.


One of those dude's is his brother? I had no idea.

After doing research, I’m probably wrong. I’m referring to bishop and the way they talk about memories seems like they’re brothers, but I’m guessing just super close friends.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1073 » by RiotPunch » Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:40 am

Milbucks96 wrote:
SupremeHustle wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:I like Teague as an nba personality. His honesty, story telling, and humor reminds me of the early Jalen rose and bill Simmons stuff. The podcast sucks though and it’s mostly his brother and friend that’s bringing it down, though Teague can be a lot better too. I just watch the viral clips, can never get through an entire episode.


One of those dude's is his brother? I had no idea.

After doing research, I’m probably wrong. I’m referring to bishop and the way they talk about memories seems like they’re brothers, but I’m guessing just super close friends.

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1074 » by RRyder823 » Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:09 am

Fotis St wrote:Bottom line wherever you wish to hide Khris on D, you cannot, cause at the playoffs opponents coaches label him and Brook as vulnerabilities and keep setting picks until one of those two switches to their best player. So I think Khris is basically like Spain's NT Rudy Fernadez... a microwave bench player that provides scoring off the bench when needed especially on 4th quarter.
Brook and Khris are the ideal off the bench leaders, they are just overpaid like 300% above their true value.


Middleton is set to make just under 38 million this season. Now if he's being paid 300% over his true value please list the players that are making 9.5 million and are even close to him as a player?

Now that statement is so dumb that I'm gonna try and give a little credit and say you must of mistaken the verbiage and meant to say "he's being paid 3 times what he's worth" so I'll even ask a second question and ask you to list the players making 12.6 million that are close to him as a player?

I get math is hard, and you can argue Middleton is overpaid, but holy hell dude think before you hit that post button



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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1075 » by GBPackers47 » Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:41 pm

RRyder823 wrote:
Fotis St wrote:Bottom line wherever you wish to hide Khris on D, you cannot, cause at the playoffs opponents coaches label him and Brook as vulnerabilities and keep setting picks until one of those two switches to their best player. So I think Khris is basically like Spain's NT Rudy Fernadez... a microwave bench player that provides scoring off the bench when needed especially on 4th quarter.
Brook and Khris are the ideal off the bench leaders, they are just overpaid like 300% above their true value.


Middleton is set to make just under 38 million this season. Now if he's being paid 300% over his true value please list the players that are making 9.5 million and are even close to him as a player?

Now that statement is so dumb that I'm gonna try and give a little credit and say you must of mistaken the verbiage and meant to say "he's being paid 3 times what he's worth" so I'll even ask a second question and ask you to list the players making 12.6 million that are close to him as a player?

I get math is hard, and you can argue Middleton is overpaid, but holy hell dude think before you hit that post button



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In real terms, he's overpaid, but in nominal terms, he's not because the entire league is overpaid.

Saying he's 300% over his true value is an absolutely insane argument though. That would put his salary below Jordan Clarkson, whose defense is so bad that I don't even think he could pull a positive net rating running at the Y.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1076 » by soxperry » Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:56 pm

Every single playoffs, Khris proves how valuable he is.

Last year it was his clutch shot making
The year before he was hobbled and still put up a strong showing as the number one option.
The year prior his absence spoke volumes
The year prior he was flame throwing and we won it all

If everyone is healthy, he is a perfect third option. If Khris continues to decline defensively and its obvious that hes bringing us down, you could see a trade.

The cards are going to be turned over and the moves will be made. Its win now 100%
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1077 » by Fotis St » Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:07 pm

Yes, I meant 3 times more than his true value, which means that he would be very useful having Khris at 13M contract and Brook at 7M coming off the bench with scoring and leadership.
(So pay them a third of what they are paid now and they become really valuable). In my mind they both are like overpaid 40 year olds.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1078 » by soxperry » Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:13 pm

Fotis St wrote:Yes, I meant 3 times more than his true value, which means that he would be very useful having Khris at 13M contract and Brook at 7M coming off the bench with scoring and leadership.
(So pay them a third of what they are paid now and they become really valuable). In my mind they both are like overpaid 40 year olds.


Lol
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1079 » by GBPackers47 » Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:08 pm

Fotis St wrote:Yes, I meant 3 times more than his true value, which means that he would be very useful having Khris at 13M contract and Brook at 7M coming off the bench with scoring and leadership.
(So pay them a third of what they are paid now and they become really valuable). In my mind they both are like overpaid 40 year olds.


You can't expect to be taken seriously with that number.

A logical argument can be made that Khris is overpaid by maybe 25-30% in real terms, but saying he's a $13 million player is just straight-up hating.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Schedule Released 8/15 

Post#1080 » by Prez » Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:40 pm

Khris just gave us 25/10/5 in a playoff series without Giannis entirely and Dame out or hobbled for most of it, and we’re talking about him as a MLE player? What in the ****?

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