Has Tatum already surpassed Kyrie career wise?

[bigboi]

More All NBA’s
More conference finals appearances
More Olympic gold medals
Beat Kyrie head to head in the finals

Thoughts as Kyrie was just referred as a top 75 player of all time

[Jack Dempsey]

Yes

The Olympic gold medal doesn't move the needle all that much but his impact on his Team is far greater than Kyrie's. With the Celtics winning the Championship last season, Kyrie's only argument has faded away.

[Dr Positivity]

Definitely due to Kyrie having so many injured seasons that he has more moderate longevity advantage

[Cavsfansince84]

I think Tatum has an argument based on things like mvp voting but I'd say Kyrie still ranks ahead by a decent margin. Sort of depends how much credit you want to give Kyrie for his pre LeBron seasons or how much you want to penalize him for all of the Bos-BKN shenanigans/chemistry stuff.

[bigboi]

I think Tatum has an argument based on things like mvp voting but I'd say Kyrie still ranks ahead by a decent margin. Sort of depends how much credit you want to give Kyrie for his pre LeBron seasons or how much you want to penalize him for all of the Bos-BKN shenanigans/chemistry stuff.

What has Kyrie done to rank ahead by a decent margin?

Kyrie damn near behind in every stat in the playoffs too lmao. Boston, Brooklyn and pre Bron is half of his career so….. a lot. Plus missed the playoffs with Luka.

I’m not even considering mvp voting in the mix

[mcfly1204]

This would be a lot easier to answer if Tatum had the same killer mentality that Irving has shown. That said, Kyrie has been remarkably efficient in the Playoffs throughout his career.

[Cavsfansince84]

What has Kyrie done to rank ahead by a decent margin?

Kyrie damn near behind in every stat in the playoffs too lmao. Boston, Brooklyn and pre Bron is half of his career so….. a lot. Plus missed the playoffs with Luka.

I’m not even considering mvp voting in the mix

You can make a case that Kyrie has 10 pretty high level seasons so far in his career at 51+ gp. As in all star to 2nd team all nba level. Plus big part of 4 teams that made the finals and 1 title team. Tatum has 5 high level seasons so far with a couple of 1st teams and is more dependable and slightly more consistent in the playoffs. So where you take it from there is up to you in terms of penalizing Kyrie for games missed and whatnot. Tatum isn't without blemish on his playoff resume either but I think based on the above there is a clear case to be made for Kyrie being higher as of right now(by a decent margin). Tatum most likely ends up higher though.

[tsherkin]

I think from an availability perspective, you have to at least consider it. Kyrie's statistically a more efficient player and, 18-21, a higher-impact guy than Tatum's best, and is on average around the same as Tatum's best on O (but not D, obviously). They both have a ring. Tatum's a little more decorated in terms of All-NBA and All-D teams and Kyrie's only played 70+ games 3 times. Tatum only hasn't twice, leaving him with 5 seasons of 70+ GP thus far.

And then there's the whole "sometimes, Kyrie is just actually crazy" component, which is very much not a concern with Tatum. He's been pretty steady since the word "go," and that's not a trivial thing when you're comparing talents at a reasonably similar level.

I'd say yeah, Tatum has already outpaced Kyrie in career terms to date.

[bigboi]

This would be a lot easier to answer if Tatum had the same killer mentality that Irving has shown. That said, Kyrie has been remarkably efficient in the Playoffs throughout his career.

Really? That’s interesting. Kyrie and Tatum have virtually the same efficiency stats. That’s with Tatum scoring more and being the first option as well.

[bigboi]

What has Kyrie done to rank ahead by a decent margin?

Kyrie damn near behind in every stat in the playoffs too lmao. Boston, Brooklyn and pre Bron is half of his career so….. a lot. Plus missed the playoffs with Luka.

I’m not even considering mvp voting in the mix

You can make a case that Kyrie has 10 pretty high level seasons so far in his career at 51+ gp. As in all star to 2nd team all nba level. Plus big part of 4 teams that made the finals and 1 title team. Tatum has 5 high level seasons so far with a couple of 1st teams and is more dependable and slightly more consistent in the playoffs. So where you take it from there is up to you in terms of penalizing Kyrie for games missed and whatnot. Tatum isn't without blemish on his playoff resume either but I think based on the above there is a clear case to be made for Kyrie being higher as of right now(by a decent margin). Tatum most likely ends up higher though.

Kyrie didn’t even play the first time that the Cavs made the finals. Stunk the bed on the Celtics while Tatum lead the same team to the ECF multiple times. And Kyrie disappointed on the big 3 nets. Also missed the playoffs with Luka. Not sure how you’re saying that I’m penalizing Kyrie for missing games (which should be a penalty regardless, if D Rose had availability, he’d be one of the best PGs ever but that’s not reality), Kyrie is just less accomplished and has done less when put in the same position as Tatum

[mcfly1204]

This would be a lot easier to answer if Tatum had the same killer mentality that Irving has shown. That said, Kyrie has been remarkably efficient in the Playoffs throughout his career.

Really? That’s interesting. Kyrie and Tatum have virtually the same efficiency stats. That’s with Tatum scoring more and being the first option as well.

46% vs. 44% from the field, 39% vs. 34.5% from 3, 88% vs. 84% from the stripe. Tatum has also been very efficient, but Kyrie takes it to another level. Very similar statistically speaking, and when you factor in both winning a championship as the #2 player on their team, it's almost uncanny.

[tsherkin]

This would be a lot easier to answer if Tatum had the same killer mentality that Irving has shown. That said, Kyrie has been remarkably efficient in the Playoffs throughout his career.

Really? That’s interesting. Kyrie and Tatum have virtually the same efficiency stats. That’s with Tatum scoring more and being the first option as well.

46% vs. 44% from the field, 39% vs. 34.5% from 3, 88% vs. 84% from the stripe. Tatum has also been very efficient, but Kyrie takes it to another level. Very similar statistically speaking, and when you factor in both winning a championship as the #2 player on their team, it's almost uncanny.

Kyrie's a career 58.3% TS guy. Tatum's a career 58.3% TS guy.

In 2024, Tatum was at 60.4% TS, and Kyrie was at 60.8%.

They're quite similar in the RS.

In the playoffs in 2024, Tatum was at 54.9% and Kyrie at 56.6%. League average TS% in the playoffs was 56.6%.

That said, I don't think it's correct calling Tatum the #2 player on his team. It's clear he was primarily shouldering the burden, and Finals MVP notwithstanding, he was the guy whose number they were calling most often for the bulk of the RS and the PS.

[brackdan70]

This would be a lot easier to answer if Tatum had the same killer mentality that Irving has shown. That said, Kyrie has been remarkably efficient in the Playoffs throughout his career.

Killer mentality?
Maybe offensively and as a front runner.
I have seen more folding when it matters from Kyrie than killer mentality.

[brackdan70]

Tatum and it isn’t really close.
Weird topic imo. I’d agree the gold medals don’t move the needle though.
Kyrie has never been successful as the best player on his Team. Tatum has been in that role since 3/4 the way through his first season.

[tsherkin]

Tatum and it isn’t really close.
Weird topic imo. I’d agree the gold medals don’t move the needle though.
Kyrie has never been successful as the best player on his Team. Tatum has been in that role since 3/4 the way through his first season.

There's some merit to Tatum's much more chill personality. Kyrie hasn't really had a lot of opportunities to run "his own" team much, but when he was with the Celtics, they won 55 games and lost in 7 in the Conference Finals to the Cavs. That's actually pretty good stuff. He was never the best player on Cleveland or Brooklyn, and certainly isn't now in Dallas, so the window you're describing is quite small.

[brackdan70]

Tatum and it isn’t really close.
Weird topic imo. I’d agree the gold medals don’t move the needle though.
Kyrie has never been successful as the best player on his Team. Tatum has been in that role since 3/4 the way through his first season.

There's some merit to Tatum's much more chill personality. Kyrie hasn't really had a lot of opportunities to run "his own" team much, but when he was with the Celtics, they won 55 games and lost in 7 in the Conference Finals to the Cavs. That's actually pretty good stuff. He was never the best player on Cleveland or Brooklyn, and certainly isn't now in Dallas, so the window you're describing is quite small.

Kyrie didn’t play in the playoffs that year. He played in 60 games. Tatum led that team to the ECF.

[mcfly1204]

Really? That’s interesting. Kyrie and Tatum have virtually the same efficiency stats. That’s with Tatum scoring more and being the first option as well.

46% vs. 44% from the field, 39% vs. 34.5% from 3, 88% vs. 84% from the stripe. Tatum has also been very efficient, but Kyrie takes it to another level. Very similar statistically speaking, and when you factor in both winning a championship as the #2 player on their team, it's almost uncanny.

Kyrie's a career 58.3% TS guy. Tatum's a career 58.3% TS guy.

In 2024, Tatum was at 60.4% TS, and Kyrie was at 60.8%.

They're quite similar in the RS.

In the playoffs in 2024, Tatum was at 54.9% and Kyrie at 56.6%. League average TS% in the playoffs was 56.6%.

That said, I don't think it's correct calling Tatum the #2 player on his team. It's clear he was primarily shouldering the burden, and Finals MVP notwithstanding, he was the guy whose number they were calling most often for the bulk of the RS and the PS.

Keep in mind that we are also comparing a 6'2" guard vs. a 6'8" wing. You have players like LBJ who are at 50% from the field for their playoff career. The #2 option bit was in jest...

[tsherkin]

Kyrie didn’t play in the playoffs that year. He played in 60 games. Tatum led that team to the ECF.

That isn't exactly accurate. And of course had they been able to play Kyrie, that's maybe a title team.

Marcus Smart was an 18/4/5 player, plus his defense. Horford was a 16/8/3 guy. Terry Rozier was at about 17/5/6. Tatum was around 19/4/4 and played very well, but describing him as "leading" that team to the ECF isn't really accurate. He actually stunk like ass in the first round, and was their 4th-leading scorer in that series. They exited the first round in spite of him, not because of him. That script flipped nicely against the Sixers, as Embiid folded up inside himself and failed to score effectively against Boston, which had nothing to do with Tatum, but JT was much better on offense and a significant part of how Boston dominated that element of the series, for sure. And then they lost to the Cavs (expected, to be fair), a series during which he had a mix of rough games and good ones. Certainly not bad for a rookie.

I think you're overcrediting him a little bit there; that team had significant depth and veteran presence. Still, Tatum was a strong contributor, which is relevant to his overall quality.

[brackdan70]

46% vs. 44% from the field, 39% vs. 34.5% from 3, 88% vs. 84% from the stripe. Tatum has also been very efficient, but Kyrie takes it to another level. Very similar statistically speaking, and when you factor in both winning a championship as the #2 player on their team, it's almost uncanny.

Kyrie's a career 58.3% TS guy. Tatum's a career 58.3% TS guy.

In 2024, Tatum was at 60.4% TS, and Kyrie was at 60.8%.

They're quite similar in the RS.

In the playoffs in 2024, Tatum was at 54.9% and Kyrie at 56.6%. League average TS% in the playoffs was 56.6%.

That said, I don't think it's correct calling Tatum the #2 player on his team. It's clear he was primarily shouldering the burden, and Finals MVP notwithstanding, he was the guy whose number they were calling most often for the bulk of the RS and the PS.

Keep in mind that we are also comparing a 6'2" guard vs. a 6'8" wing. You have players like LBJ who are at 50% from the field for their playoff career. The #2 option bit was in jest...

Do you get a bonus for being short?

[tsherkin]

Keep in mind that we are also comparing a 6'2" guard vs. a 6'8" wing. You have players like LBJ who are at 50% from the field for their playoff career. The #2 option bit was in jest...

Their size isn't really relevant. Their league-relative efficiency is all that really matters. Yeah, it's easier for Tatum at size, and so it's a little less impressive that he was efficient in the abstract, but performance is what matters and they performed at an equivalent level, which speaks to their individual abilities in a positive way.