Ingram to Charlotte

[babyjax13]

Not sure these are the correct periphery pieces, but general idea is Bridges + Williams + stuff for Ingram + stuff.

CHA trades: Miles Bridges, Mark Williams, Nick Richards, 2026 CHA 2nd, 2027 CHA 2nd, 2028 CHA 2nd
NOP trades: Brandon Ingram, Jordan Hawkins, Yvis Missi

Why CHA does it: wash their hands of the Bridges situation and get a better wing + a recent first who has been an absolute flamethrower when given minutes. They are still likely to get a high lottery pick this year because they'll be playing without a center, but this gives them a foundation of probably the best team Charlotte has ever had.

Why NOP does it: swap Ingram for cheaper parts that fit into their rotation a bit better (since Bridges can play PF). Bridges is also a nice option when Zion misses games. There is obvious risk that Williams misses games, but when he has played he has been effective.


CHA rotation:
Missi/Gibson/Salaun
Williams/Martin/Salaun (more minutes when ready)
Ingram/Green
Miller/Hawkins
Ball/Micic/Mann


NOP rotation:
Williams/Matkovic/Richards
Zion/Bridges/JRE
Bridges/Jones
Murphy/McCollum
Murray/Alvarado

[JJ_PR]

There are a few issues with your trade. First, does NOP want Bridges and all the baggage he brings? Second, Ingram has to agree to an extension. If he does, I do like this for Charlotte. Not sure about the fit of Williams and Zion offensively.

[jbk1234]

I don't see the Pels adding Hawkins and Missi to Ingram. Seems like a non-starter.

Maybe Williams for Missi and Hawkins if Charlotte doesn't want to overperform before the 2025 draft.

[Xman]

Cannot deal Bridges until January 14. Any deal for Ingram alary would require Ball (probably not happening) or MWilliams and three other guys.
If Cha did consider moving Ball, that would be interesting. Ingram plus prospects (Missi, Hawkins, TMurphy) or picks - could be quite a haul. A Ball/Murray/CJ backcourt would be wild.

MWilliams for Missi and a second might work.

[YayBasketball]

I don't see the Pels adding Hawkins and Missi to Ingram. Seems like a non-starter.

Maybe Williams for Missi and Hawkins if Charlotte doesn't want to overperform before the 2025 draft.

Exactly. I get that Ingram's percieved value is low, but we have to think about it from GM David Griffin's POV. He won't add value (Pels young players or picks) to Ingram just to get lower overall talent. Now, if it's a significant talent upgrade, then yea I could see him adding to Ingram to bring in a real difference maker.

There are a few issues with your trade. First, does NOP want Bridges and all the baggage he brings? Second, Ingram has to agree to an extension. If he does, I do like this for Charlotte. Not sure about the fit of Williams and Zion offensively.

Yea, I don't think GM Griffin (or most teams/GMs?) would be willing to trade value for Miles Bridges at this point, unless truly desperate for wing/forward depth. Griffin is always talking about "high character human beings," and it's even a meme among Pels fans in that he only wants choir boy types over taking risks on talent with questionable personalities.

[YayBasketball]

I do see the Hornets as an Ingram team, maybe even one of the frontrunners. But I see it happening in season leading up to the deadline. At this stage, teams like CHA can straddle the line of "rebuilding with our young players" and actually competing to win games.

If around December/January they're losing a lot-- path is clear: full steam ahead, tank for Flagg and co. But if they surprise early, winning more than expected with Ball and/or Miller taking a leap-- then they could pivot to competing and building up winning momentum that carries over into next season, too (think Pacers recently).

Ingram is friends with Ball, from NC, and is the kind of available big-talent that a sputtering playoff-less franchise like the Hornets could take a risk on. Now, with Miles Bridges not being a return option for the Pelicans, and Ball/Miller off the table-- Mark Williams and picks are the only assets the Pels would value from CHA.

[YayBasketball]

Here's my alternative idea:

CHA trades: Mark Williams + G. Williams + Martin + Micic + '27 DAL 1st (top-2 prot.) + 2027 MIA 1st (lotto-prot.)
CHA gets: Ingram + D. Sharpe

BKN trades: Cam Johnson + D. Sharpe
BKN gets: G. Williams + Martin + Alvarado + '27 DAL 1st (top-2 prot.)

NOP trades: Ingram + Alvarado
NOP gets: Mark Williams + Cam Johnson + Micic + '27 MIA 1st (lotto-prot.)

Maybe more value to BKN? Maybe some 2nds sprinkled in from CHA to NOP and BKN.

[Apz]

Here's my alternative idea:

CHA trades: Mark Williams + G. Williams + Martin + Micic + '27 DAL 1st (top-2 prot.) + 2027 MIA 1st (lotto-prot.)
CHA gets: Ingram + D. Sharpe

BKN trades: Cam Johnson + D. Sharpe
BKN gets: G. Williams + Martin + Alvarado + '27 DAL 1st (top-2 prot.)

NOP trades: Ingram + Alvarado
NOP gets: Mark Williams + Cam Johnson + Micic + '27 MIA 1st (lotto-prot.)

Maybe more value to BKN? Maybe some 2nds sprinkled in from CHA to NOP and BKN.

As a neutral, why does hornets, that sucks and will keep sucking after this, give up all that for the pleasure to pay ingram? Imo they shouldnt do stuff like this til they drafted a difference maker. Just wait and if ingram is intrestrd, sign him next summer

[BuddyBuckets]

I think for all the talk the Pels upper management and coaching does about 'the right people' and 'family' it would probably be a mistake to take Bridges back in a deal.

Can see the premise behind it, Williams is a better option at C than we currently have. And Bridges can play at a high level. But yea the Pels are really pushing their culture and values PR side so Bridges wouldn't make it here.

[Trey24]

This trade is too much for the Pels with Williams in it. Remove Williams and the trade is much more even-sided. Hornets would take a step backwards after this trade if Williams was sent out.

[YayBasketball]

As a neutral, why does hornets, that sucks and will keep sucking after this, give up all that for the pleasure to pay ingram? Imo they shouldnt do stuff like this til they drafted a difference maker. Just wait and if ingram is intrestrd, sign him next summer

Right, that's definitely a fair, standard take. But I think as fans, we logic out "They should keep tanking multiple years" when actual GMs and owners have a limited tolerance for that and want to actually field a competitive team. Like the Kings who took a risk and traded Hali for Sabonis, then ended theur playoff drought and resurged basketball fandom in Sacramento. Value wise, sure they lost the trade because Hali is a star. But overall, they became relevant to their fans and ticket sales for multiple years going forward.

And a few posts above, I laid out the scenario where Hornets would pursue an Ingram trade. Think the Pacers last year. Got off to a hot start, Hali took a leap, so they traded for Siakam and made a big run, kickstarting a winning expectation there for years to come. Hornets could be the Pacers of this season. If Hornets are bad the first half if the season, sure, tank ahead.

Lastly, would Hornets have enough cap space to sign Ingram as a free agent next offseason? Don't think so, without making multiple moves to clear salaries. And like Pacers/Siakam, they would get Ingram in house for the home stretch if the season, building chemistry and having close, constructive dialogue with him and his agent about role and manageable contract expectations.

[Rich4114]

Only problem with this is you take all of Charlotte's centers in this deal lol

[HornetJail]

if Ingram wants to be here, we'll just jump through a couple hoops and clear some cap space for him next summer. no reason to trade 2 of our 4 good players for the "privilege" of being bent over in contract negotiations a year later. I'm not dying to be Batum'ed all over again on a much larger scale.

In a world where Mark plays 50+ games, we are a worse team after this deal than before it, even disregarding contract situation and/or flight risk.

[YayBasketball]

if Ingram wants to be here, we'll just jump through a couple hoops and clear some cap space for him next summer. no reason to trade 2 of our 4 good players for the "privilege" of being bent over in contract negotiations a year later. I'm not dying to be Batum'ed all over again on a much larger scale.

In a world where Mark plays 50+ games, we are a worse team after this deal than before it, even disregarding contract situation and/or flight risk.

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

[HornetJail]

if Ingram wants to be here, we'll just jump through a couple hoops and clear some cap space for him next summer. no reason to trade 2 of our 4 good players for the "privilege" of being bent over in contract negotiations a year later. I'm not dying to be Batum'ed all over again on a much larger scale.

In a world where Mark plays 50+ games, we are a worse team after this deal than before it, even disregarding contract situation and/or flight risk.

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

We have some cap space already, so people like Josh Green, Vasa Micic might wind up on the chopping block. A max shouldn't ever be on the table for Ingram. If that's what he is commanding then I'm not remotely interested.

I don't buy that there is a $10-15M difference between what Bridges and Ingram bring to the table, let alone $20M+ which is where a max may actually be

[JustBuzzin]

if Ingram wants to be here, we'll just jump through a couple hoops and clear some cap space for him next summer. no reason to trade 2 of our 4 good players for the "privilege" of being bent over in contract negotiations a year later. I'm not dying to be Batum'ed all over again on a much larger scale.

In a world where Mark plays 50+ games, we are a worse team after this deal than before it, even disregarding contract situation and/or flight risk.

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

The last 4 MVP's have come from a center.

I would say center is very important lol

[YayBasketball]

if Ingram wants to be here, we'll just jump through a couple hoops and clear some cap space for him next summer. no reason to trade 2 of our 4 good players for the "privilege" of being bent over in contract negotiations a year later. I'm not dying to be Batum'ed all over again on a much larger scale.

In a world where Mark plays 50+ games, we are a worse team after this deal than before it, even disregarding contract situation and/or flight risk.

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

The last 4 MVP's have come from a center.

I would say center is very important lol

Sure, if you have a top-5 center, then the position is very important. But how much of a difference is having the 15th best center to the 32nd best Center, if the other positions are strong?

[JustBuzzin]

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

The last 4 MVP's have come from a center.

I would say center is very important lol

Sure, if you have a top-5 center, then the position is very important. But how much of a difference is having the 15th best center to the 32nd best Center, if the other positions are strong?

You downplaying a position that is on the rise Jokic/Embiid/AD/Bam/Gobert/Wemby/Chet.

That's a elite group of centers. The position matters more than you think.

[HornetJail]

Fair opinion. I'm curious-- what salaries would they have to clear and what examples of salary clearing deals do you have? Would they have to trade way Bridges and G. Williams to create max cap space?

How important is a Center is today's NBA? The Pelicans' roster construction will be a fun experiment in that direction. How much can you get away with replacement level Centers if you're strong at every other position?

The last 4 MVP's have come from a center.

I would say center is very important lol

Sure, if you have a top-5 center, then the position is very important. But how much of a difference is having the 15th best center to the 32nd best Center, if the other positions are strong?

watch us play with Mark Williams, and then watch us play with Nick Richards. You'll see a pretty stark difference on both ends of the floor. Nick is probably a 50-55 ranked C in the league, not 32nd

[babyjax13]

The last 4 MVP's have come from a center.

I would say center is very important lol

Sure, if you have a top-5 center, then the position is very important. But how much of a difference is having the 15th best center to the 32nd best Center, if the other positions are strong?

watch us play with Mark Williams, and then watch us play with Nick Richards. You'll see a pretty stark difference on both ends of the floor. Nick is probably a 50-55 ranked C in the league, not 32nd

Yah, I think people just need to believe Charlotte fans saying Richards is not that good. I'm assuming he has some high variance play because if you see a small sample he can look pretty decent.