Better career: Tracy McGrady or Vince Carter?

[LaLover11]

Give me Iggy over both of them

[Quattro]

If Vince didnt get into a fight with Toronto management and get traded away he would be considered a top 5 alltime SG..right there with guys like Wade.

Only a Raptor fan would ever say this.

Wade and Vince don’t belong in the same sentence, not even close.

I agree. 100%

As for TMAC vs VC, in their prime, never mind injuries, longevity or whatever, give me the guy who played defense too.

[bkkrh]

I was really surprised how many more individual accomplishments McGrady has. I immediatelly voted for Vince by a lot before even comparing this. I think it comes really down to what you prioritize. When I think of McGrady I associate:" Incredible player, bad luck in Orlando, never made it out of the first round, injuries, early decline." When I think of Vince Carter I associate:" Incredible player, best in game dunker of all time, making the slam dunk contest relevant again, dunk of death, longest career in NBA history." To me he just had so many historical moments that outshine stat accomplishments. Kinda like when I think of AI I see him crossing over Jordan and stepping over Ty Lue instead of focusing on stats.

[D.Brasco]

I was really surprised how many more individual accomplishments McGrady has. I immediatelly voted for Vince by a lot before even comparing this. I think it comes really down to what you prioritize. When I think of McGrady I associate:" Incredible player, bad luck in Orlando, never made it out of the first round, injuries, early decline." When I think of Vince Carter I associate:" Incredible player, best in game dunker of all time, making the slam dunk contest relevant again, dunk of death, longest career in NBA history." To me he just had so many historical moments that outshine stat accomplishments. Kinda like when I think of AI I see him crossing over Jordan and stepping over Ty Lue instead of focusing on stats.

Carter's longevity was way better than McGrady so he didn't disappear as quickly as T-Mac did. 1,541 games played to 938, 25,739 points scored compared to T-Mac's 18,381.

T-Mac peaked slightly higher but a big gulf in longevity.

[maverick_41]

Both cases of underachievement should be studied in college by young players.

Always terrible sorry for Vince and T-Mac wasting their talents.

[gavran]

In yet another episode of our ongoing off-season series...

What's your choice?

Tracy McGrady
15 seasons
20/6/4 averages, 43/34/75 shooting splits, 52% TS, 22,1 PER
Peak (ages 21-28, before injuries): 26/6/5, 1,4 stl, 0,8 blk
7x All-Star
7x All-NBA (2x 1st team, 3x 2nd team, 2x 3rd team)
2x scoring champ
1x MIP
18,3k points, 5,2k rebounds, 4,1k assists
Hall of Famer

Vince Carter
21 seasons
17/4/3 averages, 43/37/80 shooting splits, 54% TS, 18,6 PER
Peak (ages 23-32, before "journeyman" phase of career): 24/5/4, 1,3 stl, 0,7 blk
8x All-Star
2x All-NBA (1x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team)
ROY
25,7k points, 6,6k rebounds, 4,7k assists
Hall of Famer

McGrady was the better player.

That question was not asked.

[NoStatsGuy]

i think people get blinded by the all nba teams.

yes, tmacs peak was higher, but it wasnt by a big margin. i think naturally vince competed with shooting guards for all nba teams and tmac competed with wings/forwards. ofc they both played the 2 and the 3. but vince was smaller and more recognized as a 2 than tmac. and the early 2000s guards were some really tough competition.

players like kobe, kidd, iverson, Ray allen, nash, etc, were a lock in the guard spot almost every year.

[JimmyFromNz]

I just dont see what Vince ever did in his career to counteract the fact Tmac was quite clearly the better player for the majority of their careers and the individual awards are a reflection of that - despite having less time at the top.

Longevity? That's putting a lot of weight on some entirely forgettable seasons.

[Ssj16]

I'm definitely biased here as VC is one of my all time favourite players for how he initially put Toronto on the map so I would go with VC.

I just think that in 20 years, you're more likely to talk about VC vs T-mac. VC definitely made some mistakes in his career, imo, but he had some of the most memorable moments as many posters already stated where I feel like T-mac kinda gets lost in the annals of history for the most part.

[Morb]

Peak and 5 year Prime for T-Mac.
Vince had impressive long career actually.

[kenwood3333]

I interpret career to be nba career accomplishments. McGrady got a lot more individual awards, but team record wise not much different than VC. So my vote goes to McGrady by some.

But talent wise McGrady is clearly a level above VC.

I disagree about wanting to redo the break up decision. It is part of McGrady's growth as a person. He might not turn into the player he is if he stay in the same team as VC.

[Birth of the Cool]

McGrady by a lot. Look at the all nbas and the PER. Carter was constantly getting hurt in his prime. There's a reason Vince's nickname was 'Half man, half a season' while TMac was on that Kobe level.

VC in Toronto (games played)
Strike Season: 50
82
75
60
43
73
77
20 (before trade)

VC in New Jersey
57 (after trade)
79
82
76
80

Now look at the Prime of the other elite SG's at the time and guess which SG was relatively more or just as healthy as the rest...

This idea that he was constantly injured is just false. For his career he has been one of the Ironmen at his position.

I think that's the perception because during his Prime he was a drama queen when he did get injured and it was annoying to see (laying on the floor to long, etc).

[HMFFL]

I just dont see what Vince ever did in his career to counteract the fact Tmac was quite clearly the better player for the majority of their careers and the individual awards are a reflection of that - despite having less time at the top.

Longevity? That's putting a lot of weight on some entirely forgettable seasons.

The question was better career, not who's the better player.

T Mac had more talent but Vince Carter in my opinion had the better career.

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[tsherkin]

52% TS is really low for a guy who's primary value is giving you scoring. I wonder if T Mac's career would've worked out if he focused more on defence or being more of a playmaker/all around player.

Vince's TS% wasn't much better. It was an inefficient era for scoring in general. They look about the same in TS% added over their peak years.

Raw TS% is of only so much value, for sure. Vince was a 101 TS+ guy with Toronto, though, which is more the problem. "Barely better than league average" wasn't a hot look. In his defense, it was the grindiest of the grinder era and we did not put a good offensive team around him. Alvin Williams, old Antonio Davis, Charles "I threw it behind my back, off my ass and out of bounds" Oakley, etc. It was kinda ugly. Then with the Nets... a whole 102 TS+. Vince just wasn't a dominant scorer. Exciting, and reasonably well-rounded, pretty good in his twenties and an absolute UNIT in 2001 in particular, though. Like, if we kept getting 2001 Vince, we'd be having a very different conversation, but we did not.

McGrady, for his part, was actually below league average aside from being in Orlando. He was a 94 TS+ guy with the Rockets, 97 with the Raptors. He was at 104 with the Magic. And of course his 02-03 peak was scintillating. 01-07, even with his fairly mediocre efficiency, he was a high-impact offensive player due to his playmaking and low-turnover player. Like, he was a 9.4% TOV guy through that stretch on 32.9% USG, which is a little insane given the 01-04 portion of that timeframe.

[DavidSterned]

I just dont see what Vince ever did in his career to counteract the fact Tmac was quite clearly the better player for the majority of their careers and the individual awards are a reflection of that - despite having less time at the top.

Longevity? That's putting a lot of weight on some entirely forgettable seasons.

He was?

Vince was better their two years together in Toronto. '01 is mostly a wash but VC was probably still a little better. '02-'04 is definitely Tmac, '05 is kind of a wash again after VC goes to the Nets but I'll give the edge to Tmac. '06 is clearly VC, '07 I'll give a modest edge to Tmac, and '08 onwards is clearly VC every year.

So that's basically 4 or 5 seasons of Tmac's entire career where he was better. Not a majority at all. The guy had a very short run of greatness.

[tsherkin]

I just dont see what Vince ever did in his career to counteract the fact Tmac was quite clearly the better player for the majority of their careers and the individual awards are a reflection of that - despite having less time at the top.

Longevity? That's putting a lot of weight on some entirely forgettable seasons.

He was?

Vince was better their two years together in Toronto. '01 is mostly a wash but VC was probably still a little better. '02-'04 is definitely Tmac, '05 is kind of a wash again after VC goes to the Nets but I'll give the edge to Tmac. '06 is clearly VC, '07 I'll give a modest edge to Tmac, and '08 onwards is clearly VC every year.

So that's basically 4 or 5 seasons of Tmac's entire career where he was better. Not a majority at all. The guy had a very short run of greatness.

It's pretty clear that McGrady was the better overall player, when healthy, from when he hit Orlando forward until his decline. He worked in some particularly odious roster situations, but the breadth of his talent was significant and he was both much better at protecting the ball and considerably better at creating shots for others, which made the difference.

[DavidSterned]

I just dont see what Vince ever did in his career to counteract the fact Tmac was quite clearly the better player for the majority of their careers and the individual awards are a reflection of that - despite having less time at the top.

Longevity? That's putting a lot of weight on some entirely forgettable seasons.

He was?

Vince was better their two years together in Toronto. '01 is mostly a wash but VC was probably still a little better. '02-'04 is definitely Tmac, '05 is kind of a wash again after VC goes to the Nets but I'll give the edge to Tmac. '06 is clearly VC, '07 I'll give a modest edge to Tmac, and '08 onwards is clearly VC every year.

So that's basically 4 or 5 seasons of Tmac's entire career where he was better. Not a majority at all. The guy had a very short run of greatness.

It's pretty clear that McGrady was the better overall player, when healthy, from when he hit Orlando forward until his decline. He worked in some particularly odious roster situations, but the breadth of his talent was significant and he was both much better at protecting the ball and considerably better at creating shots for others, which made the difference.

He definitely had a better peak, but it's still clearly inaccurate to say he was a better player the majority of the time. VC and Tmac played in 14 of the same seasons and McGrady has an edge for maybe 5 of them. Obviously some of those later years don't amount to much for either guy, but I would argue that VC's longevity edge is at least as decisive as Tmac's edge in their respective peaks.

[tsherkin]

He definitely had a better peak, but it's still clearly inaccurate to say he was a better player the majority of the time. VC and Tmac played in 14 of the same seasons and McGrady has an edge for maybe 5 of them. Obviously some of those later years don't amount to much for either guy, but I would argue that VC's longevity edge is at least as decisive as Tmac's edge in their respective peaks.

Context applies. McGrady went in directly from HS and didn't have the green light from the word "go" in Toronto as did Vince. During his prime, he was clearly the better player. VC's longevity edge is made up by a decade of him being a journeyman, which isn't really impressive or relevant. 2010-2020, he averaged 9.8 ppg, 3.1 rpg and 1.8 apg on 53.2% TS and had two seasons where he hit or surpassed league-average efficiency, one of which was his second-last season, during which he played 17.5 mpg. These are meaningless seasons about which no one cares. He played a long time, he usually had a nice, open-court dunk every now and again, and occasionally provided some spacing, but none of that really matters to any substantive degree. He wasn't a particularly good player during the second half of his career and his value eroded further each subsequent season.

Yeah, McGrady played less but his 7 All-Star seasons were all at worst comparable to every one of Vince's best seasons except 01, and he had a couple seasons better than that as well.

[Rainwater]

Man the TMac hate is strong. T Mac was a top 5 player at one point, that can’t be said about Vince.

[Bank Shot]

T Mac for me due to his peak. You can knock him for his lack of playoff success in most comparisons, but not against Carter. VC's only somewhat memorable run ended in a second-round loss in one of the worst conferences ever. Carter's best Raptor squad is barely a top-10 Raptor squad now.