Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?

[Wildcat]

Read on Twitter

He was on his way to a career high in assists if he didn't get injured. He definitely was doing more drive and kick outs last season.

[8516knicks]

Brunson fractured his left hand...Look at the 38 minute mark of the video below and you will see Nembard bump brunsons hand/arm...Brunson immediately pulls his hand/arm to his core...and didn't come back until the second half...
I believe the fracture occurred at that moment...and for those who think you cant play on a fracture

Watch on YouTube

which fracture classification it was at that point only Brunson knows- It's my opinion that it wasnt severe at that point...
https://ladanhajipour.com/the-different-types-of-hand-and-wrist-fractures/#:~:text=Hand%20fractures,the%20severity%20of%20the%20fracture.

It was just obvious to me that he was trying to disguise his pain or injury at that moment but his initial movement told me other wise...

Small guard needs a ton of high leverage usage in the playoffs. After 7 games suffers injury one. 6 games later suffers injury #2.

Just makes the point that we don’t have enough shot creation.

we need to see this team play for an extended period of time before we cement a point like that IMO...
We are extremely versatile - we also need to see how Thibs handles this team...The only things cemented to me if you want to "worry" about them is Mitch and OG missing games...I'm not worried about Brunson at all- he's very smart and tough!
And the reason I wont worry about Mitch or OG is because we cant do much about it. I dont worry about things that are out of my control...

I will say this...I think this front office is the best we've had in decades and I think we need to enjoy that...I believe no matter what is thrown at us they will figure it out...

In a way, this team is build to handle a key injury or two - the exceptions being were down just Jalen as PG (still pretty secure as he's not injury prone) and half a center at the 1 & 5 positions. Hopefully our wonder D forwards will help cover that disappearing center position.

[Context]

Small guard needs a ton of high leverage usage in the playoffs. After 7 games suffers injury one. 6 games later suffers injury #2.

Just makes the point that we don’t have enough shot creation.

we need to see this team play for an extended period of time before we cement a point like that IMO...
We are extremely versatile - we also need to see how Thibs handles this team...The only things cemented to me if you want to "worry" about them is Mitch and OG missing games...I'm not worried about Brunson at all- he's very smart and tough!
And the reason I wont worry about Mitch or OG is because we cant do much about it. I dont worry about things that are out of my control...

I will say this...I think this front office is the best we've had in decades and I think we need to enjoy that...I believe no matter what is thrown at us they will figure it out...

In a way, this team is build to handle a key injury or two - the exceptions being were down just Jalen as PG (still pretty secure as he's not injury prone) and half a center at the 1 & 5 positions. Hopefully our wonder D forwards will help cover that disappearing center position.

I'm hopeful that Mitch realizes that this is his opportunity to focus on taking care of his body so he can have his best year of his career.
This team needs him this year over any year in his career...
I agree that we are much deeper this year to deal with injuries...

[RHODEY]

I couldnt have said it better...Not to mention, the salary valuation. That deal was a bargain for us!

Again, it wasn’t “some picks”. It was control of all our tradable draft capital plus control of 5/7 of our drafts.

I don’t understand why people discount those picks so much.

As I have said many times - if the trade was our 2024 picks and the picks we had from other teams it would be a bargain.

Listen to every review of trade. Even the people who love it start by saying how much of an overpay it was.

A bargain is parlaying Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, Malcom Brogodn and one future 1st into Jrue Holiday and Kristapas Porzingis

A premium is turning RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickey, 4 unprotected 1st rd picks, a lightly protected 1st rd pick, and two high 2nd rd picks into OG Anunoby and Mikal Bridges.

[RHODEY]

We were without Randle in the playoffs versus the Sixers..an elite team known for defense and what did their blitzing do to Brunson? Mind you we were hobbled even in that series.. But healthy with Randle and Bridge?s....it's not even a question to me that we are a contender.

We won in 6 close games while Philly had a hobbled Embiid. Philly has since replaced Tobias Harris and Nic Batum with Paul George and Kaleb Martin

By the middle of the 2nd rd against Indiana the team was out of gas.

We need Randle.

Embiid is ALWAYS hobbled. That is Embiid. Come play-off time he will be "hobbled again. If Embiid took care of his body like Lebron
whined a little less and put his attention toward winning instead of trying to injure players- then many of us would be concerned about him.

As far as Indy- Brunson broke his hand in game 2. OG and Mitch was out by game 2. Not to mention, Randle wasnt even playing.
Thats not "out of gas" that's missing almost all of your starters

Dude looked semi hobbled in the Olympics. But lets go back to the playoff matchup, where he was supposedly so hurt. I don't even buy that completely. The last half of that series he wasn't too hurt, he gave us all we could handle and we took it - with a truly hobbled team.

[Synciere]

Randle should try to go for 18pts 11rb 8ast type numbers this season... More all-around game... more defense... we'd be a much better team for it.

Him scoring less isn't immediately indicative of playing a more all-around game. Randle is already at 6 assists per game, and the only way I see him getting more is if his usage goes up substantially, which it probably shouldn't because Jalen is that guy and we don't want Randle holding the ball. I actually want to see Randle's scoring go UP due to increased efficiency from 3. He can still rebound and move the ball, but the only thing he needs to do is shoot the 3 ball better.

Randle will be surrounded by multiple ~40% 3pt shooters at all times so he should be looking to attack and dish as well as doing those give and go's near the 3pt line, using his wide body to free up the shooters. Randle has never had an offense this talented around him... he could really transform his game to prove the haters wrong (like he did in that Jan stretch).

True, but the only change is Mikal replacing Grimes/Bogs, so he has already been in an offense this good. He doesn't need to change his game; he's already our second leading assist man as a PF. He's proven that part of his game already. Not sure why we want to transform an All NBA player when he's already doing what you're saying. He should keep doing what he's doing, just do it better in the playoffs.

[nykballa2k4]

If we are able to use a death lineup of Randle-OG-Bridges-DDV-Bruson I think we will fare well against most teams. The problem of course being that if you compare our death lineup to the Warriors Green-Durant(or Barnes)-Iggy-Klay-Curry the big difference is in the defense. Curry and Durant are obviously all-time greats on offense. Brunson is not Curry, Randle is not Durant. We can make up for that offensively with OG, Bridges, DDV being better than Green, Iggy, and Klay collectively.

Taking out Green, Iggy from Warriors defense and OG, Bridges from our defense the comparison would become Durant/Barnes, Klay, Curry vs Randle, DDV, Brunson.
After considering that, we have to accept that our defense is a funnel defense meaning we really need Randle to either block shots/intimidate or use position to force tough shots and draw charges.

[Capn'O]

If we are able to use a death lineup of Randle-OG-Bridges-DDV-Bruson I think we will fare well against most teams. The problem of course being that if you compare our death lineup to the Warriors Green-Durant(or Barnes)-Iggy-Klay-Curry the big difference is in the defense. Curry and Durant are obviously all-time greats on offense. Brunson is not Curry, Randle is not Durant. We can make up for that offensively with OG, Bridges, DDV being better than Green, Iggy, and Klay collectively.

Taking out Green, Iggy from Warriors defense and OG, Bridges from our defense the comparison would become Durant/Barnes, Klay, Curry vs Randle, DDV, Brunson.
After considering that, we have to accept that our defense is a funnel defense meaning we really need Randle to either block shots/intimidate or use position to force tough shots and draw charges.

I would use OG at C in these instances. Just keep teams from scoring. Using Randle as rim protection only leads to pain. Imo, you need Hart in those lineups to grab boards and get out in transition as well. DDV and Bridges are thus interchangable.

Brunson
DDV/Bridges
Hart
Randle
OG

[JayTWill]

A lot of attention is given to the offensive side of the ball and especially on-ball shot creation but the Knicks' defense could not stop the Pacers. The Pacers had the best offense of any single team in any single round in the playoffs against the Knicks. The Pacers got whatever they wanted on the court from whoever and wherever with insane efficiency.

Obviously OG going down, injuries and fatigue played a role but I always wonder how the team would have looked defensively by adding 36 minutes of healthy Randle, 24-30 minutes of "healthy" Mitch and possibly some minutes for Bogey. The Pacers play with a ton of ball movement, player movement pace and space. Randle, Mitch and Bogey are not exactly a great matchup defensively against the Pacers.

Maybe the best defense against the Pacers is a good offense. Maybe the Knicks would have been able to slow down the pace and dominate the boards but there is also the possibility that the Pacers would have just run the Knicks off the court. The Knicks offense wasn't pretty but their defense was a bigger problem in that series and I can't imagine a Thibs' team winning a championship by trying to win in shootouts.

The Knicks added Mikal who will hopefully help on both ends of the court but there is more to the game than just on-ball shot creation.

[KnicksGadfly]

A lot of attention is given to the offensive side of the ball and especially on-ball shot creation but the Knicks' defense could not stop the Pacers. The Pacers had the best offense of any single team in any single round in the playoffs against the Knicks. The Pacers got whatever they wanted on the court from whoever and wherever with insane efficiency.

Obviously OG going down, injuries and fatigue played a role but I always wonder how the team would have looked defensively by adding 36 minutes of healthy Randle, 24-30 minutes of "healthy" Mitch and possibly some minutes for Bogey. The Pacers play with a ton of ball movement, player movement pace and space. Randle, Mitch and Bogey are not exactly a great matchup defensively against the Pacers.

Maybe the best defense against the Pacers is a good offense. Maybe the Knicks would have been able to slow down the pace and dominate the boards but there is also the possibility that the Pacers would have just run the Knicks off the court. The Knicks offense wasn't pretty but their defense was a bigger problem in that series and I can't imagine a Thibs' team winning a championship by trying to win in shootouts.

The Knicks added Mikal who will hopefully help on both ends of the court but there is more to the game than just on-ball shot creation.

I think we still need to play defense. We're a Thibs team; we like to win a certain way. We protect the paint, we grab offensive boards, we grind people down. The better team will impose their style on the other (unless one team is severely injured and desperately playing Alec Burks all of a sudden after benching him for weeks).

We're also not equipped with the mentality to play Pacers ball. The Pacers can play Obi at center and have him run and chuck from three after made baskets. Thibs would never go for that. That's not to say Thibs hasn't evolved - he has - but he still has core principles he adheres to.

[RHODEY]

If we are able to use a death lineup of Randle-OG-Bridges-DDV-Bruson I think we will fare well against most teams. The problem of course being that if you compare our death lineup to the Warriors Green-Durant(or Barnes)-Iggy-Klay-Curry the big difference is in the defense. Curry and Durant are obviously all-time greats on offense. Brunson is not Curry, Randle is not Durant. We can make up for that offensively with OG, Bridges, DDV being better than Green, Iggy, and Klay collectively.

Taking out Green, Iggy from Warriors defense and OG, Bridges from our defense the comparison would become Durant/Barnes, Klay, Curry vs Randle, DDV, Brunson.
After considering that, we have to accept that our defense is a funnel defense meaning we really need Randle to either block shots/intimidate or use position to force tough shots and draw charges.

Brunson has surpassed the current version of Curry.

[RHODEY]

A lot of attention is given to the offensive side of the ball and especially on-ball shot creation but the Knicks' defense could not stop the Pacers. The Pacers had the best offense of any single team in any single round in the playoffs against the Knicks. The Pacers got whatever they wanted on the court from whoever and wherever with insane efficiency.

Obviously OG going down, injuries and fatigue played a role but I always wonder how the team would have looked defensively by adding 36 minutes of healthy Randle, 24-30 minutes of "healthy" Mitch and possibly some minutes for Bogey. The Pacers play with a ton of ball movement, player movement pace and space. Randle, Mitch and Bogey are not exactly a great matchup defensively against the Pacers.

Maybe the best defense against the Pacers is a good offense. Maybe the Knicks would have been able to slow down the pace and dominate the boards but there is also the possibility that the Pacers would have just run the Knicks off the court. The Knicks offense wasn't pretty but their defense was a bigger problem in that series and I can't imagine a Thibs' team winning a championship by trying to win in shootouts.

The Knicks added Mikal who will hopefully help on both ends of the court but there is more to the game than just on-ball shot creation.

I think we still need to play defense. We're a Thibs team; we like to win a certain way. We protect the paint, we grab offensive boards, we grind people down. The better team will impose their style on the other (unless one team is severely injured and desperately playing Alec Burks all of a sudden after benching him for weeks).

We're also not equipped with the mentality to play Pacers ball. The Pacers can play Obi at center and have him run and chuck from three after made baskets. Thibs would never go for that. That's not to say Thibs hasn't evolved - he has - but he still has core principles he adheres to.

I think we will destroy the Pacers on every level from this point forward if healthy. Those fugazy clowns are squarely in my rear view mirror.

[Spree2Houston]

If the league doesn’t value Randle as highly as we do, then we shouldn’t have a problem resigning him. I doubt any team will be throwing 310mil at him.

[Context]

We won in 6 close games while Philly had a hobbled Embiid. Philly has since replaced Tobias Harris and Nic Batum with Paul George and Kaleb Martin

By the middle of the 2nd rd against Indiana the team was out of gas.

We need Randle.

Embiid is ALWAYS hobbled. That is Embiid. Come play-off time he will be "hobbled again. If Embiid took care of his body like Lebron
whined a little less and put his attention toward winning instead of trying to injure players- then many of us would be concerned about him.

As far as Indy- Brunson broke his hand in game 2. OG and Mitch was out by game 2. Not to mention, Randle wasnt even playing.
Thats not "out of gas" that's missing almost all of your starters

Dude looked semi hobbled in the Olympics. But lets go back to the playoff matchup, where he was supposedly so hurt. I don't even buy that completely. The last half of that series he wasn't too hurt, he gave us all we could handle and we took it - with a truly hobbled team.

I agree...Dude was killing Ihart and he was fighting Mitch too...Embiid is an actor to me...
I can't wait for this team to play. I want smoke with the entire league.

[NiceLikeChrist]

A lot of attention is given to the offensive side of the ball and especially on-ball shot creation but the Knicks' defense could not stop the Pacers. The Pacers had the best offense of any single team in any single round in the playoffs against the Knicks. The Pacers got whatever they wanted on the court from whoever and wherever with insane efficiency.

Obviously OG going down, injuries and fatigue played a role but I always wonder how the team would have looked defensively by adding 36 minutes of healthy Randle, 24-30 minutes of "healthy" Mitch and possibly some minutes for Bogey. The Pacers play with a ton of ball movement, player movement pace and space. Randle, Mitch and Bogey are not exactly a great matchup defensively against the Pacers.

Maybe the best defense against the Pacers is a good offense. Maybe the Knicks would have been able to slow down the pace and dominate the boards but there is also the possibility that the Pacers would have just run the Knicks off the court. The Knicks offense wasn't pretty but their defense was a bigger problem in that series and I can't imagine a Thibs' team winning a championship by trying to win in shootouts.

The Knicks added Mikal who will hopefully help on both ends of the court but there is more to the game than just on-ball shot creation.

Most of that was because Thibs thought it would be a good idea to have Brunson on TJ so much. We beat them the two games we had OG. We were just missing too much after he went down and don't forget it was some garbage BS shot that saved them from being down 0-3. All we needed to sweep the pacers was just one of OG, Randle, or Mitch.

[thebuzzardman]

I never realized the Pacers were such an unbeatable offensive juggernaut

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

HUGE part of the reason Divi had such a good year is because of Randle but some won't admit that

Yeah, the numbers show that Donte shoots much better when Randle is on the court.

[cgf]

Read on Twitter

It’ll be interesting to see if folks recognize the impact Julius makes if we stay mostly healthy this year.

[cgf]

A lot of attention is given to the offensive side of the ball and especially on-ball shot creation but the Knicks' defense could not stop the Pacers. The Pacers had the best offense of any single team in any single round in the playoffs against the Knicks. The Pacers got whatever they wanted on the court from whoever and wherever with insane efficiency.

Obviously OG going down, injuries and fatigue played a role but I always wonder how the team would have looked defensively by adding 36 minutes of healthy Randle, 24-30 minutes of "healthy" Mitch and possibly some minutes for Bogey. The Pacers play with a ton of ball movement, player movement pace and space. Randle, Mitch and Bogey are not exactly a great matchup defensively against the Pacers.

Maybe the best defense against the Pacers is a good offense. Maybe the Knicks would have been able to slow down the pace and dominate the boards but there is also the possibility that the Pacers would have just run the Knicks off the court. The Knicks offense wasn't pretty but their defense was a bigger problem in that series and I can't imagine a Thibs' team winning a championship by trying to win in shootouts.

The Knicks added Mikal who will hopefully help on both ends of the court but there is more to the game than just on-ball shot creation.

Most of that was because Thibs thought it would be a good idea to have Brunson on TJ so much. We beat them the two games we had OG. We were just missing too much after he went down and don't forget it was some garbage BS shot that saved them from being down 0-3. All we needed to sweep the pacers was just one of OG, Randle, or Mitch.

The Pacers are like a hockey team because they are so deep & they play with so much energy on both sides of the ball. If you cannot match their depth, they can wear you down even if you’re more talented if you don’t have at least 8 or 9 guys capable of eating real minutes.

We can absolutely beat them & I would favor us to with both teams mostly healthy, but them being a tough playoff opponent won’t be a fluke…especially since getting Mathurin & Hali healthy for year 2 with Siakam, could make their offense even tougher to slowdown.

[cgf]

Has there been any news about whether we’ll sign someone to the MLE just to facilitate a later trade? Precious + Payne/McBride + tpMLE would let us match for a legit rotation guy.