Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 8.0: A Forum Divided

[eyriq]

The Phoenix fit is interesting. One of the best offensive teams in the league.

[RookieStar]

He said he is starting?

Is the lineup gonna be :

Tyus
Beal
Booker
Kd
Nurkic

Wow...their defense is gonna be swiss cheese.

[locomagicfan]

shame on any of you who trade the farm and our draft picks for Tyus back at trade deadline... 1-year vet min!!!

[BadMofoPimp]

shame on any of you who trade the farm and our draft picks for Tyus back at trade deadline... 1-year vet min!!!

Like some hidden Gem. The prize of Free Agency and potential star talent.

[Furinkazan]

Read on Twitter

I know people are going to complain about not signing him and instead signing Cory Joseph.

But Tyus is probably going to start in Phoenix, or at the very least play enough minutes where he could rebuild his value.

That wouldn't have necessarily been the case in Orlando, at least not without trading Cole.

Watch on YouTube

[T-Cat]

Read on Twitter

[Skybox]

I think a healthy Isaac could be the story of the year…if his offense and mpg just trend up 10-20%, he’s a guy that should be in the 6moy conversation wire to wire.

Don’t sleep on Cole either…we all, me included, seem to put him in a box with his current ceiling…but he’s young and fearless and he’s another guy that WILL take the big shots. If his efficiency ticks up and his abilities as a game manager develop just a bit, he might be the clear answer at backup Lead Guard- and the reason we didn’t fill that glaring hole. Long-term, I’m rooting for AB, given his size & defensive upside, but Cole’s a LOT farther along, offensively, at the moment.

Tyus held out for a starting spot and took a one-year deal to prove himself (again). I get it - he’s paddling frantically to resist sinking back into a reserve “profile” and the pay ceiling that comes with it….it’s a long-term bet and I’m not sure it’s a great one…I still like him as the best backup PG in the league - reliable, super efficient, able to tighten up an offense, but perhaps not really dynamic enough to lead a team…could work in PHX with all of that firepower around him…I was kind of hoping for Fultz to PHX for the same reasons.

[T-Cat]

I think a healthy Isaac could be the story of the year…if his offense and mpg just trend up 10-20%, he’s a guy that should be in the 6moy conversation wire to wire.

Don’t sleep on Cole either…we all, me included, seem to put him in a box with his current ceiling…but he’s young and fearless and he’s another guy that WILL take the big shots. If his efficiency ticks up and his abilities as a game manager develop just a bit, he might be the clear answer at backup Lead Guard- and the reason we didn’t fill that glaring hole. Long-term, I’m rooting for AB, given his size & defensive upside, but Cole’s a LOT farther along, offensively, at the moment.

Tyus held out for a starting spot and took a one-year deal to prove himself (again). I get it - he’s paddling frantically to resist sinking back into a reserve “profile” and the pay ceiling that comes with it….it’s a long-term bet and I’m not sure it’s a great one…I still like him as the best backup PG in the league - reliable, super efficient, able to tighten up an offense, but perhaps not really dynamic enough to lead a team…could work in PHX with all of that firepower around him…I was kind of hoping for Fultz to PHX for the same reasons.

Anyone thinks he good enough to start this year?

[Skybox]

I think a healthy Isaac could be the story of the year…if his offense and mpg just trend up 10-20%, he’s a guy that should be in the 6moy conversation wire to wire.

Don’t sleep on Cole either…we all, me included, seem to put him in a box with his current ceiling…but he’s young and fearless and he’s another guy that WILL take the big shots. If his efficiency ticks up and his abilities as a game manager develop just a bit, he might be the clear answer at backup Lead Guard- and the reason we didn’t fill that glaring hole. Long-term, I’m rooting for AB, given his size & defensive upside, but Cole’s a LOT farther along, offensively, at the moment.

Tyus held out for a starting spot and took a one-year deal to prove himself (again). I get it - he’s paddling frantically to resist sinking back into a reserve “profile” and the pay ceiling that comes with it….it’s a long-term bet and I’m not sure it’s a great one…I still like him as the best backup PG in the league - reliable, super efficient, able to tighten up an offense, but perhaps not really dynamic enough to lead a team…could work in PHX with all of that firepower around him…I was kind of hoping for Fultz to PHX for the same reasons.

Anyone thinks he good enough to start this year?

Isaac or Cole could start on another team, imo, especially Isaac...but the unconventional lineup ORL has clearly decided to run with (cemented by signing KCP vs a PG) means they won't - unless Isaac becomes an unconventional C or Mose develops a weird 3-forward type of system or puts Paolo as an unusual C (not out of the question)...I love a bold system change, even if just a part time look like the undermanned Dolphins running a Wildcat offense and shocking better teams for the first half of the season (until they all adapted). That's fun and we may have the personnel and length to pull it off....we don't really have a "conventional" player at ANY spot, except maybe Goga who is a Center through and through. Historically, SG are big scorers - ours are all 3&D guys. Our forwards all possess unique skillset vs size packages. Very interesting and unique group of players.

[T-Cat]

I think a healthy Isaac could be the story of the year…if his offense and mpg just trend up 10-20%, he’s a guy that should be in the 6moy conversation wire to wire.

Don’t sleep on Cole either…we all, me included, seem to put him in a box with his current ceiling…but he’s young and fearless and he’s another guy that WILL take the big shots. If his efficiency ticks up and his abilities as a game manager develop just a bit, he might be the clear answer at backup Lead Guard- and the reason we didn’t fill that glaring hole. Long-term, I’m rooting for AB, given his size & defensive upside, but Cole’s a LOT farther along, offensively, at the moment.

Tyus held out for a starting spot and took a one-year deal to prove himself (again). I get it - he’s paddling frantically to resist sinking back into a reserve “profile” and the pay ceiling that comes with it….it’s a long-term bet and I’m not sure it’s a great one…I still like him as the best backup PG in the league - reliable, super efficient, able to tighten up an offense, but perhaps not really dynamic enough to lead a team…could work in PHX with all of that firepower around him…I was kind of hoping for Fultz to PHX for the same reasons.

Anyone thinks he good enough to start this year?

Isaac or Cole could start on another team, imo, especially Isaac...but the unconventional lineup ORL has clearly decided to run with (cemented by signing KCP vs a PG) means they won't - unless Isaac becomes an unconventional C or Mose develops a weird 3-forward type of system or puts Paolo as an unusual C (not out of the question)...I love a bold system change, even if just a part time look like the undermanned Dolphins running a Wildcat offense and shocking better teams for the first half of the season (until they all adapted). That's fun and we may have the personnel and length to pull it off....we don't really have a "conventional" player at ANY spot, except maybe Goga who is a Center through and through. Historically, SG are big scorers - ours are all 3&D guys. Our forwards all possess unique skillset vs size packages. Very interesting and unique group of players.

The goal is to put the best players on the court! WCJ has proven he's not the answer at center, especially defensively!

Paolo and Jonathan Isaac could present matchup problems at the 5 spot offensively.

[Skybox]

Anyone thinks he good enough to start this year?

Isaac or Cole could start on another team, imo, especially Isaac...but the unconventional lineup ORL has clearly decided to run with (cemented by signing KCP vs a PG) means they won't - unless Isaac becomes an unconventional C or Mose develops a weird 3-forward type of system or puts Paolo as an unusual C (not out of the question)...I love a bold system change, even if just a part time look like the undermanned Dolphins running a Wildcat offense and shocking better teams for the first half of the season (until they all adapted). That's fun and we may have the personnel and length to pull it off....we don't really have a "conventional" player at ANY spot, except maybe Goga who is a Center through and through. Historically, SG are big scorers - ours are all 3&D guys. Our forwards all possess unique skillset vs size packages. Very interesting and unique group of players.

The goal is to put the best players on the court! WCJ has proven he's not the answer at center, especially defensively!

Paolo and Jonathan Isaac could present matchup problems at the 5 spot offensively.

Would sure be interesting...I've been pushing for Isaac for a while (health-permitting). I know that he wreaks the most havoc on the perimeter - but the addition of KCP makes him a little more fluid potentially. The "what about Embiid?" thing just isn't prevalent enough in today's NBA to not explore a quicker center. Claxton was runner up DPOY at C and he makes Isaac look swole. WCJ could feast offensively on second unit and Goga & Mo always happy to come in and bang with anyone.

So many interesting combos available to work with...and, hopefully, enough added shooting in KCP, Jett, TdS to work in as well.

[jezzerinho]

Anyone thinks he good enough to start this year?

Isaac or Cole could start on another team, imo, especially Isaac...but the unconventional lineup ORL has clearly decided to run with (cemented by signing KCP vs a PG) means they won't - unless Isaac becomes an unconventional C or Mose develops a weird 3-forward type of system or puts Paolo as an unusual C (not out of the question)...I love a bold system change, even if just a part time look like the undermanned Dolphins running a Wildcat offense and shocking better teams for the first half of the season (until they all adapted). That's fun and we may have the personnel and length to pull it off....we don't really have a "conventional" player at ANY spot, except maybe Goga who is a Center through and through. Historically, SG are big scorers - ours are all 3&D guys. Our forwards all possess unique skillset vs size packages. Very interesting and unique group of players.

The goal is to put the best players on the court! WCJ has proven he's not the answer at center, especially defensively!

Paolo and Jonathan Isaac could present matchup problems at the 5 spot offensively.

Well, I disagree with you on that one.

To be elite, we would need to score 8 to 10 points more a game. Swap WCJ for JI and watch the Magic score 8-10 points fewer a game. Not a smart move.

Carter is getting some weird disrespect despite being v solid. Availability is his issue. His play is good tho.

[MasterGMer]

I think a healthy Isaac could be the story of the year…if his offense and mpg just trend up 10-20%, he’s a guy that should be in the 6moy conversation wire to wire.

Don’t sleep on Cole either…we all, me included, seem to put him in a box with his current ceiling…but he’s young and fearless and he’s another guy that WILL take the big shots. If his efficiency ticks up and his abilities as a game manager develop just a bit, he might be the clear answer at backup Lead Guard- and the reason we didn’t fill that glaring hole. Long-term, I’m rooting for AB, given his size & defensive upside, but Cole’s a LOT farther along, offensively, at the moment.

Tyus held out for a starting spot and took a one-year deal to prove himself (again). I get it - he’s paddling frantically to resist sinking back into a reserve “profile” and the pay ceiling that comes with it….it’s a long-term bet and I’m not sure it’s a great one…I still like him as the best backup PG in the league - reliable, super efficient, able to tighten up an offense, but perhaps not really dynamic enough to lead a team…could work in PHX with all of that firepower around him…I was kind of hoping for Fultz to PHX for the same reasons.

Big JI and Cole fan. JI can be a critical player for Magic if he stays healthy all season. This is really his first full summer since injury. Big things ahead

I think other than Cole's lack of consistency shooting the ball, he is great for us. I think he already embraced the sixth man role. And if he can make another leap, he will be dangerous and very good for a team contending for the playoff upcoming season

[Skybox]

The Clash were "The only band that matters" and this is the only thread that matters

keeping it alive...

NOLA sends: CJ McCollum, Yves Missi
ORL sends: WCJ, Cole Anthony, Gary Harris (trade eligible Dec 15)

NOLA gets the floor-spreading, do everything young C they need. Cole & Gary fill in the now-limited role of CJ behind DJM

ORL gets the offensive firebomb and vet leader in a sixth man role (perhaps overpaid at this stage of his career, but only for one more year). CJ is an elite shooter, a willing passer, and a great personality and mature leader in the locker room...but he's no Ingles-he will also be the best offensive player on the court on quite a few nights. Missi could be the steal - he's projecting as a defensive-minded physical monster on a rookie deal. He looks offensively limited, but that's okay, given our roster's makeup. Goga can start for now, but I think Missi (in the perfectly limited role ORL would put him in) accelerates to a very productive level quickly...he becomes our bigger, stronger, younger, much cheaper version of Claxton. Nightmarish defensive improvement with KCP and Missi, along with a healthier Isaac ( ). Much more offensive creation and explosive bench scoring with CJ & TdS. McCollum comes off the bench for the first time in his career, but he gets 25 mpg, playing significant minutes with both Suggs & KCP. ORL starts the game with intense defensive pressure from the backcourt and then releases the long-range bombers in CJ & da Silva (and, hopefully, some Jett). Anthony Black will get valuable minutes at multiple positions, largely based on defensive assignments...He'll get significantly more minutes than last year and, if he develops playmaking instincts to match his defensive skills, will be ready for a much larger role the following season. It's hard to become a PG or even a 6'10 playmaker, without some kind of "been there" vet presence. This trade is a for today and tomorrow.

[Knightro]

NOLA sends: CJ McCollum, Yves Missi
ORL sends: WCJ, Cole Anthony, Gary Harris (trade eligible Dec 15)

I'm not against McCollum necessarily, but this feels like a lot for him?

Like essentially you're trading your starting center and your two primary backup guards (go easy on me Anthony Black supporters!) for a $32M AAV 6th man?

McCollum over the last decade has played at least 33 MPG. He couldn't realistically get there off the bench, unless you literally just ran three guards with him Suggs and KCP.

New rotation would be...

G: Suggs, Black, Joseph
G: KCP, McCollum, Howard
F: Wagner, da Silva, Houstan
F: Banchero, Isaac, FA signing
C: Bitadze, Wagner, Missi

I guess?

But Black really wouldn't be playing all that much because there's only 96 minutes at the two guard spots and Suggs, KCP and McCollum would all need *at least* 28 MPG (84 MPG combined) and probably more like 30 MPG (90 MPG combined).

[Skybox]

NOLA sends: CJ McCollum, Yves Missi
ORL sends: WCJ, Cole Anthony, Gary Harris (trade eligible Dec 15)

I'm not against McCollum necessarily, but this feels like a lot for him?

Like essentially you're trading your starting center and your two primary backup guards (go easy on me Anthony Black supporters!) for a $32M AAV 6th man?

McCollum over the last decade has played at least 33 MPG. He couldn't realistically get there off the bench, unless you literally just ran three guards with him Suggs and KCP.

New rotation would be...

G: Suggs, Black, Joseph
G: KCP, McCollum, Howard
F: Wagner, da Silva, Houstan
F: Banchero, Isaac, FA signing
C: Bitadze, Wagner, Missi

I guess?

But Black really wouldn't be playing all that much because there's only 96 minutes at the two guard spots and Suggs, KCP and McCollum would all need *at least* 28 MPG (84 MPG combined) and probably more like 30 MPG (90 MPG combined).

CJ gets 25 quality mins per game. Some nights, when he's lights out, maybe more (or less). He's getting older - losing a handful of mpg isn't a death sentence. 30 mpg is plenty for the 2-way effort we expect from Suggs & KCP. Assuming NO injuries or missed games, here's my vision of backcourt minutes...

Guards (96 mins)...Suggs 30 mpg, KCP 30, CJM 25, Black 11, Cory Joseph (as needed or earned)
Small Forward...Franz, da Silva, Isaac, Black 5-15 (depending on da Silva's readiness, Isaac's assignments 3/4/5? and Black's ability to contribute), Jett (as earned)

*Too much talent in the Top 8 or 9 is a good thing. Suggs, KCP, CJ is among the best guard rotations immediately. IF Black can break in and earn time as a playmaker & scoring threat good enough to send CJ's one-way play back to the bench - even better. I just don't think you get very far with such decrepit offense no matter how good your defense is.

* simply put, you're putting one 32yo in front of AB rather than 2 able-bodied guards for him to try to overtake.

[VFX]

I would have been very OK with a McCollum trade prior to paying both KCP and Gary. Now? Not so much.

I think the pieces listed are correct in Cole, Carter, and possibly a first. I don’t know if pushing those assets in for an older sixth man is great return.

Orlando could probably get more value in a bigger swing later with some of those assets.

[Skybox]

I would have been very OK with a McCollum trade prior to paying both KCP and Gary. Now? Not so much.

I think the pieces listed are correct in Cole, Carter, and possibly a first. I don’t know if pushing those assets in for an older sixth man is great return.

Orlando could probably get more value in a bigger swing later with some of those assets.

To me, Missi is a significant piece of what I proposed and a (potential) steal for ORL, based on fit, salary, and upside. I don't think I'd covet CJ (alone) enough to trade away WCJ ...but Missi is an intriguing player. I think WCJ is just what NOLA needs and a guy like Missi could be exactly what ORL needs as a C (Claxton, Gafford, Lively -type)...presuming we can get more scoring from our backcourt.

This could turn into the Tyus type misguided conversation again...we wouldn't be pursuing CJ as a savior, just an upgraded bench leader. I don't care about the salary as it's matched by the lesser guys (with lesser deals) going out.

[Knightro]

Like I said, over the last decade McCollum has not played fewer than 33 MPG and never taken fewer than 16 shots a game with a 25 USG per game.

I would need to know well in advance that he'd be totally cool with bumping both of those numbers way down. Some guys aren't, ya know?

[yoyojw17]

NOLA sends: CJ McCollum, Yves Missi
ORL sends: WCJ, Cole Anthony, Gary Harris (trade eligible Dec 15)

I'm not against McCollum necessarily, but this feels like a lot for him?

Like essentially you're trading your starting center and your two primary backup guards (go easy on me Anthony Black supporters!) for a $32M AAV 6th man?

McCollum over the last decade has played at least 33 MPG. He couldn't realistically get there off the bench, unless you literally just ran three guards with him Suggs and KCP.

New rotation would be...

G: Suggs, Black, Joseph
G: KCP, McCollum, Howard
F: Wagner, da Silva, Houstan
F: Banchero, Isaac, FA signing
C: Bitadze, Wagner, Missi

I guess?

But Black really wouldn't be playing all that much because there's only 96 minutes at the two guard spots and Suggs, KCP and McCollum would all need *at least* 28 MPG (84 MPG combined) and probably more like 30 MPG (90 MPG combined).

CJ gets 25 quality mins per game. Some nights, when he's lights out, maybe more (or less). He's getting older - losing a handful of mpg isn't a death sentence. 30 mpg is plenty for the 2-way effort we expect from Suggs & KCP. Assuming NO injuries or missed games, here's my vision of backcourt minutes...

Guards (96 mins)...Suggs 30 mpg, KCP 30, CJM 25, Black 11, Cory Joseph (as needed or earned)
Small Forward...Franz, da Silva, Isaac, Black 5-15 (depending on da Silva's readiness, Isaac's assignments 3/4/5? and Black's ability to contribute), Jett (as earned)

*Too much talent in the Top 8 or 9 is a good thing. Suggs, KCP, CJ is among the best guard rotations immediately. IF Black can break in and earn time as a playmaker & scoring threat good enough to send CJ's one-way play back to the bench - even better. I just don't think you get very far with such decrepit offense no matter how good your defense is.

* simply put, you're putting one 32yo in front of AB rather than 2 able-bodied guards for him to try to overtake.

I'm good with how we have it. Leaves growth options for Black and Howard. And that to me is more important to me than CJ taking up the time. Cole could ball out or slip a little down the depth chart if he doesn't rise .... Or if the "rooks" do even better than expected.