Trades and Transactions Thread Cont'd - Where the Center At?

[TheGreenArrow]

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[TheGreenArrow]

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Literally forget about the context of the video. Just look at the attention he receives on the offensive end with that near instant double off the offensive rebound. This is such a hard plus.

It's unfortunate how some people don't see the how vital Randle is to our team

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[3toheadmelo]

Literally forget about the context of the video. Just look at the attention he receives on the offensive end with that near instant double off the offensive rebound. This is such a hard plus.

It's unfortunate how some people don't see the how vital Randle is to our team

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Glad to hear we’re stuck with Randle


Meanwhile they talking about your boy like he’s the enes Kanter of point guards. Very sad!

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[VirginiaKnickFan]

Why has it been so difficult to pull off a trade for Walker Kessler?

Jalen, Josh, and Mikal all played with him on Team USA last year. What is the hold up?

Simple. Because Danny Ainge requires any inquiring team to do this with their trade offers.

[RHODEY]

Randle has been a core cog in our best multi year stretch since the 90s. I don't get the disdain for him. **** these other ninjas trying to get us to sell low. If they want our All-NBA player they need to pay All-NBA prices.

they won't though. he just doesn't have the skillset a lot of teams are interested in. he's a 4 that can't really shoot or defend. if he was above average at either of those things he would be much more valuable. and he's a guy who needs to be one of your top offensive options, because that's all he can really do, but is he good enough to lead you to a championship as that ? probably not. and he's turning 30 this year and you have to pay him, so he may start to decline on this next contract. i think he's gonna age out the league early too because he can never be an adequate role player. he doesn't have those skills. he's like the power forward version of westbrook.

we're in a pretty tough spot because we need another shot creator scorer if we trade him but we probably can't get one good enough using him. my guess is we'll have to pay him because we can't lose him for nothing either.

So how does a player who is not above average at anything get to be a multi-year all star and all NBA team? Last I checked those accolades aren't handed out like candy...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

they won't though. he just doesn't have the skillset a lot of teams are interested in. he's a 4 that can't really shoot or defend. if he was above average at either of those things he would be much more valuable. and he's a guy who needs to be one of your top offensive options, because that's all he can really do, but is he good enough to lead you to a championship as that ? probably not. and he's turning 30 this year and you have to pay him, so he may start to decline on this next contract. i think he's gonna age out the league early too because he can never be an adequate role player. he doesn't have those skills. he's like the power forward version of westbrook.

we're in a pretty tough spot because we need another shot creator scorer if we trade him but we probably can't get one good enough using him. my guess is we'll have to pay him because we can't lose him for nothing either.

i think he can slot in well as a number 2 guy. we’ll find out this season hopefully of he’s healthy come playoff time god willing. not everyone is a 1A

Go over all the other contenders number 2 guys and ask yourself if you would want them or Randle ?

I'm thinking they're going to feature Mikal a lot early on to try and see if he can be that guy he was early with the Nets and in the playoffs against the Sixers when he averaged 24ppg on 43%. If Randle hasn't been given an extension before the season starts then you have to think that the Nova guys are priority over him and Mikal coming up on an extension as well will be kept happy since it cost so much to get him.

If they can get this version of Mikal -

Watch on YouTube

Then he assumes the role of number 2, and Randle drops down to 3, or maybe even off the bench as a 6th man.

[Iron Mantis]

i think he can slot in well as a number 2 guy. we’ll find out this season hopefully of he’s healthy come playoff time god willing. not everyone is a 1A

Go over all the other contenders number 2 guys and ask yourself if you would want them or Randle ?

I'm thinking they're going to feature Mikal a lot early on to try and see if he can be that guy he was early with the Nets and in the playoffs against the Sixers when he averaged 24ppg on 43%. If Randle hasn't been given an extension before the season starts then you have to think that the Nova guys are priority over him and Mikal coming up on an extension as well will be kept happy since it cost so much to get him.

If they can get this version of Mikal -

Watch on YouTube

Then he assumes the role of number 2, and Randle drops down to 3, or maybe even off the bench as a 6th man.

The superstar price they paid to get him here makes me think the FO has more in mind for him than to be a 3&D guy standing in the corner.

[Besart19]

Randle has been a core cog in our best multi year stretch since the 90s. I don't get the disdain for him. **** these other ninjas trying to get us to sell low. If they want our All-NBA player they need to pay All-NBA prices.

Thibs doesnt mind playing big minutes players who give little effort on D or/and are bad/weak defenders… he values scoring, passing and rebounding much more than defense, tactics and playcalls, contrary to the populary belief

Carlos Boozer
Derrick Rose
Rip Hamilton
Kyle Korver
Kirk Heinrich
Marco Belinelli
Mike Dunleavy
Nicola Mirotic
Doug McDermott
DJ Augustin

[JayTWill]

Randle has been a core cog in our best multi year stretch since the 90s. I don't get the disdain for him. **** these other ninjas trying to get us to sell low. If they want our All-NBA player they need to pay All-NBA prices.

Thibs doesnt mind playing big minutes players who give little effort on D or/and are bad/weak defenders… he values scoring, passing and rebounding much more than defense, tactics and playcalls, contrary to the populary belief

Carlos Boozer
Derrick Rose
Rip Hamilton
Kyle Korver
Kirk Heinrich
Marco Belinelli
Mike Dunleavy
Nicola Mirotic
Doug McDermott
DJ Augustin

Watch on YouTube

[Besart19]

Randle has been a core cog in our best multi year stretch since the 90s. I don't get the disdain for him. **** these other ninjas trying to get us to sell low. If they want our All-NBA player they need to pay All-NBA prices.

Thibs doesnt mind playing big minutes players who give little effort on D or/and are bad/weak defenders… he values scoring, passing and rebounding much more than defense, tactics and playcalls, contrary to the populary belief

Carlos Boozer
Derrick Rose
Rip Hamilton
Kyle Korver
Kirk Heinrich
Marco Belinelli
Mike Dunleavy
Nicola Mirotic
Doug McDermott
DJ Augustin

Watch on YouTube

82 games in a season on 23min per game

[3toheadmelo]

i think he can slot in well as a number 2 guy. we’ll find out this season hopefully of he’s healthy come playoff time god willing. not everyone is a 1A

Go over all the other contenders number 2 guys and ask yourself if you would want them or Randle ?

I'm thinking they're going to feature Mikal a lot early on to try and see if he can be that guy he was early with the Nets and in the playoffs against the Sixers when he averaged 24ppg on 43%. If Randle hasn't been given an extension before the season starts then you have to think that the Nova guys are priority over him and Mikal coming up on an extension as well will be kept happy since it cost so much to get him.

If they can get this version of Mikal -

Watch on YouTube

Then he assumes the role of number 2, and Randle drops down to 3, or maybe even off the bench as a 6th man.

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

[thebuzzardman]

Pacers win the championship yet?

[R-DAWG]

they won't though. he just doesn't have the skillset a lot of teams are interested in. he's a 4 that can't really shoot or defend. if he was above average at either of those things he would be much more valuable. and he's a guy who needs to be one of your top offensive options, because that's all he can really do, but is he good enough to lead you to a championship as that ? probably not. and he's turning 30 this year and you have to pay him, so he may start to decline on this next contract. i think he's gonna age out the league early too because he can never be an adequate role player. he doesn't have those skills. he's like the power forward version of westbrook.

we're in a pretty tough spot because we need another shot creator scorer if we trade him but we probably can't get one good enough using him. my guess is we'll have to pay him because we can't lose him for nothing either.

This is very well said. I keep saying the ancillary cost of the Bridges trade was locking into Randle long term.

The Knicks gamble is that you can get away with a less than ideal #2 if your very strong down the roster. We will see if it works.

I have always through Randle needed to be in a situation where he is the #2 offensive option but 3rd best overall player. For example - playing next to a guy like Bam in Miami.

agreed. and in a lot of ways this is how the celtics built their team. neither one of their 2 guys are really good enough to lead you to a championship but they put enough talent around them that they didn't need to be. tatum can have a mediocre finals and it doesn't matter. the only problem with the knicks building their team like the celtics is that their starting 5 isn't quite as good and that's who they have to beat.

to be fair though....the knicks, correctly in my eyes, realized they weren't getting any of the big names they were hoping for (embiid, giannis, whoever) anytime soon and this was a move they could make. in a vacuum it's an overpay, there's no other way to see it. but if you wanted to build a contender around brunson while he's still in his prime (he'll be 28 in a week, this is his prime) you had to do something.

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

I will just never subscribe to the we needed to do something so it makes sense to overpay narrative. Not when the cost is this significant in terms of future assets. And the infliction point for me is the picks beyond 2027.

[3toheadmelo]

This is very well said. I keep saying the ancillary cost of the Bridges trade was locking into Randle long term.

The Knicks gamble is that you can get away with a less than ideal #2 if your very strong down the roster. We will see if it works.

I have always through Randle needed to be in a situation where he is the #2 offensive option but 3rd best overall player. For example - playing next to a guy like Bam in Miami.

agreed. and in a lot of ways this is how the celtics built their team. neither one of their 2 guys are really good enough to lead you to a championship but they put enough talent around them that they didn't need to be. tatum can have a mediocre finals and it doesn't matter. the only problem with the knicks building their team like the celtics is that their starting 5 isn't quite as good and that's who they have to beat.

to be fair though....the knicks, correctly in my eyes, realized they weren't getting any of the big names they were hoping for (embiid, giannis, whoever) anytime soon and this was a move they could make. in a vacuum it's an overpay, there's no other way to see it. but if you wanted to build a contender around brunson while he's still in his prime (he'll be 28 in a week, this is his prime) you had to do something.

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

While brown is generally better than Randle in the playoffs, he also has history of choking in the post season. Everyone forgot how he was god awful against the heat last year and pretty much everyone on this board was saying he has the worst contract in the league. He was worse than Randle against the heat.

[god shammgod]

This is very well said. I keep saying the ancillary cost of the Bridges trade was locking into Randle long term.

The Knicks gamble is that you can get away with a less than ideal #2 if your very strong down the roster. We will see if it works.

I have always through Randle needed to be in a situation where he is the #2 offensive option but 3rd best overall player. For example - playing next to a guy like Bam in Miami.

agreed. and in a lot of ways this is how the celtics built their team. neither one of their 2 guys are really good enough to lead you to a championship but they put enough talent around them that they didn't need to be. tatum can have a mediocre finals and it doesn't matter. the only problem with the knicks building their team like the celtics is that their starting 5 isn't quite as good and that's who they have to beat.

to be fair though....the knicks, correctly in my eyes, realized they weren't getting any of the big names they were hoping for (embiid, giannis, whoever) anytime soon and this was a move they could make. in a vacuum it's an overpay, there's no other way to see it. but if you wanted to build a contender around brunson while he's still in his prime (he'll be 28 in a week, this is his prime) you had to do something.

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

I will just never subscribe to the we needed to do something so it makes sense to overpay narrative. Not when the cost is this significant in terms of future assets. And the infliction point for me is the picks beyond 2027.

They probably needed to do something but not necessarily this. I think I would mind the overpay less if I believed this made us a significant favorite to win it all but I can’t say that’s my feeling. Not that they couldn’t but nobody would pick them.

[JayTWill]

Randle + Terry Johnson for iHart?

[aggo]

agreed. and in a lot of ways this is how the celtics built their team. neither one of their 2 guys are really good enough to lead you to a championship but they put enough talent around them that they didn't need to be. tatum can have a mediocre finals and it doesn't matter. the only problem with the knicks building their team like the celtics is that their starting 5 isn't quite as good and that's who they have to beat.

to be fair though....the knicks, correctly in my eyes, realized they weren't getting any of the big names they were hoping for (embiid, giannis, whoever) anytime soon and this was a move they could make. in a vacuum it's an overpay, there's no other way to see it. but if you wanted to build a contender around brunson while he's still in his prime (he'll be 28 in a week, this is his prime) you had to do something.

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

I will just never subscribe to the we needed to do something so it makes sense to overpay narrative. Not when the cost is this significant in terms of future assets. And the infliction point for me is the picks beyond 2027.

They probably needed to do something but not necessarily this. I think I would mind the overpay less if I believed this made us a significant favorite to win it all but I can’t say that’s my feeling. Not that they couldn’t but nobody would pick them.

I know everyone is focused on building a championship team, but tbh the real goal is to build the team that beats Boston.

given what was available, and our moment in time with cap space and brunson/og taking a discount, we needed to make a move.


I think in general terms you're right. mikal wont move the needle as much as people suspect, but I also think it moves the needle more vs Boston than ppl suspect. which is the correct strategy

[Fat]

Brunson for embiid

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Go over all the other contenders number 2 guys and ask yourself if you would want them or Randle ?

I'm thinking they're going to feature Mikal a lot early on to try and see if he can be that guy he was early with the Nets and in the playoffs against the Sixers when he averaged 24ppg on 43%. If Randle hasn't been given an extension before the season starts then you have to think that the Nova guys are priority over him and Mikal coming up on an extension as well will be kept happy since it cost so much to get him.

If they can get this version of Mikal -

Watch on YouTube

Then he assumes the role of number 2, and Randle drops down to 3, or maybe even off the bench as a 6th man.

Brunson already said on the podcast that Mikal’s role is gonna be in the middle of what he did on the Suns and Brooklyn. So I’m expecting around 17-19 PPG. I highly doubt they’re gonna let Mikal jack up 20 shots a game.

Brunson can say that, but at the end of the day they traded a ton of assets to get him and being a 17ppg guy would be an abject failure. He has to be more based on what they gave up and how little we can improve in the future through trades/FA, they need him to be a 22-24ppg guy if they seriously want to win a title. If he's the guy that averaged 24ppg against the Sixers in the playoffs, he's the second best player on the team and we'll win a title, if he's a 17-19ppg guy we're cooked.

[nykballa2k4]

Expanding on this - as much as it pains me to say this - Tatum is better than Brunson and I think we can all agree that we would prefer Brown over Randle - especially in the playoffs.

But what makes the Celtics flow is having two ball handlers and two rim protectors surrounding their scorers - all 4 of which are above average defenders and 3 point shooters. The Knicks might have equal talent in spots 3-6, but the Celtics roster is more balanced.

But at the end of the day, for this version of the Knicks to hit their peak, they need Julius Randle to be good. And to upgrade the roster in the near term future, they need that Detroit pick to convey as a lotto pick.

I will just never subscribe to the we needed to do something so it makes sense to overpay narrative. Not when the cost is this significant in terms of future assets. And the infliction point for me is the picks beyond 2027.

They probably needed to do something but not necessarily this. I think I would mind the overpay less if I believed this made us a significant favorite to win it all but I can’t say that’s my feeling. Not that they couldn’t but nobody would pick them.

I know everyone is focused on building a championship team, but tbh the real goal is to build the team that beats Boston.

given what was available, and our moment in time with cap space and brunson/og taking a discount, we needed to make a move.


I think in general terms you're right. mikal wont move the needle as much as people suspect, but I also think it moves the needle more vs Boston than ppl suspect. which is the correct strategy

We have to beat Boston for sure, but we also have to beat Philly and the Bucks.
With OG, I am not as worried about the Bucks, but Embiid is a real threat and we are going to need multiple bodies to put on him and bother him. Last year he cut through the 30-million-dollar-man in iHart like a knife through butter despite a bad knee.

We should be fine and versatile against most other clubs and with the depth we have (if you like our new back up point guards) we should be able to not grind players (yeah right) and have players step in for them when needed.

It will remain a problem that we are going to have lineups featuring 3 non-shooters at a time (iHart, Precious, Robinson/Sims) at times, but we have been through worse.