HoopsHype: Barnes #7 Among SFs

[Raps in 4]

Barnes is not a PF?
Didn't people argue that Barnes and Siakam play the same position?

Defensively, I don't think he can guard SF due to him not able to turn his hip quick enough, and being more a free roam PF.
Offensively, he is more playing PF, and isn't penetrating from perimeter.

Do we have a starting PF that isn't Barnes? Are we starting Kelly Olynyk there or something? Barnes is quite... interesting because you can almost run him as a PG on O, and a centre on D if you wanted. I'm not sure if people could imagine that coming out of the draft, it would probably be seen as hyperbolic then, but more realized/actualized now.

I have a hard time visualizing our full roster, I'm kind of bad at this being a fan of a team business.

He's a point forward. What Scottie does is not "rare" honestly. And point forward was always his most likely outcome.

His passing ability is absolutely rare. How many bigs have better vision than him? Jokic? Simmons?

[Spida888]

Good for Scottie. At first I thought that was higher than I thought, but then after seeing the SF players ranked after him, it makes sense. I would have Tatum after Durant, Lebron, Kawhi if the old guys were healthy.

[Chandan]

I think so? I dunno, these positions are probably a bit of an archaic way of looking at the modern NBA. At any given time, you could see Wagner or Paolo being the 3 or 4.

I think the neat thing about this is seeing all the players above him. Other than Tatum, they are all super super well esttablished players. Like KD is one of, if not the greatest pure scorer in NBA history, Kawhi is one of the greatest 2 way players in NBA history, and Lebron is 2nd in the GOAT convo. Then you take into account the age of these dudes, including PG and Jimmy, then you have Tatum, who just won a chip, and Scottie.

That's damn good company to be in. I'd be interested to see the rankings if they just combined the SF/PF into a forwards list, I suspect he's still be relatively high up there. But seeing a 23 year old held in such high regard is genuinely great to see.

Not sure if anyone saw the Vecenie podcast about the 24 best players under 24, they've got Scottie at #10 (top 9 hasn't been released yet) and Vecenie thinks that if Scottie can develop a mid range that is dependable, he's easily all NBA calibre. Stuff like this is why I'm so disproportionately high on him, the potential is absolutely there, he just needs to put stuff together.

For those interested it's 1:54:37 in.

Watch on YouTube

Thanks for posting the video, I’ve never seen it. It’s nice to see you positive about at least one player on this team hahahaha

Wow what a treat! That was a very accurate picture of who scottie is as a player. Down to some defensive stuff I fully agree with his entire assessment.
I love that cade is still pretty far up there since many people seem to have written him off. I don't think he's that far behind Barnes to be honest. The rise and fall of stock of Scottie's draft class is super interesting.

[PoundTown]

Do we have a starting PF that isn't Barnes? Are we starting Kelly Olynyk there or something? Barnes is quite... interesting because you can almost run him as a PG on O, and a centre on D if you wanted. I'm not sure if people could imagine that coming out of the draft, it would probably be seen as hyperbolic then, but more realized/actualized now.

I have a hard time visualizing our full roster, I'm kind of bad at this being a fan of a team business.

He's a point forward. What Scottie does is not "rare" honestly. And point forward was always his most likely outcome.

His passing ability is absolutely rare. How many bigs have better vision than him? Jokic? Simmons?

Scottie has great vision, and I'd agree for a guy his size it's rare. He has done what he has done with average ball handling skills and footwork. If he improves those, should be able to get where he wants a bit more easily which will open up his passing game a bit more. He makes the simple pass and the pitch ahead pass too, instead of hogging the ball. Maybe he can become a jumbo Lowry for us, where his ability to make his teammates better and intangibles are his defining skill. His motor isn't quite as consistent as Lowry's game to game, but when it's on, it's on and he's definitely maturing, which took Kyle a while as well. I think he has that edge in him, he just needs to bring it out consistently.

[Basketball_Jones]

I do like him more as a SF but end of day he may be better at PF for today’s modern nba much like Lebron. And you want to utilize his help defense shot blocking rather then have two other bigs in front of him.

[Scase]

I think the neat thing about this is seeing all the players above him. Other than Tatum, they are all super super well esttablished players. Like KD is one of, if not the greatest pure scorer in NBA history, Kawhi is one of the greatest 2 way players in NBA history, and Lebron is 2nd in the GOAT convo. Then you take into account the age of these dudes, including PG and Jimmy, then you have Tatum, who just won a chip, and Scottie.

That's damn good company to be in. I'd be interested to see the rankings if they just combined the SF/PF into a forwards list, I suspect he's still be relatively high up there. But seeing a 23 year old held in such high regard is genuinely great to see.

Not sure if anyone saw the Vecenie podcast about the 24 best players under 24, they've got Scottie at #10 (top 9 hasn't been released yet) and Vecenie thinks that if Scottie can develop a mid range that is dependable, he's easily all NBA calibre. Stuff like this is why I'm so disproportionately high on him, the potential is absolutely there, he just needs to put stuff together.

For those interested it's 1:54:37 in.

Watch on YouTube

Thanks for posting the video, I’ve never seen it. It’s nice to see you positive about at least one player on this team hahahaha

Wow what a treat! That was a very accurate picture of who scottie is as a player. Down to some defensive stuff I fully agree with his entire assessment.
I love that cade is still pretty far up there since many people seem to have written him off. I don't think he's that far behind Barnes to be honest. The rise and fall of stock of Scottie's draft class is super interesting.

Yeah Vecenie has always been pretty great at discussing this stuff in a pretty unbiased way. Nice to see him getting much higher on Barnaby.

[MEDIC]

I liike Scottie at PF much better with his current skillset. He has an advantage there & plays bigger than his actual size. I find he is much better a guarding 4's than 3's & his post game.is the most refined part of his game at this point.

We'll see what kind of improvements he makes this offseason. Hopefully he can play the 3 as his FT position eventually, but isn't quite there yet.

[WuTang_CMB]

https://youtu.be/_A-6PmEG3mM?t=6893

[ForeverTFC]

He's a point forward. What Scottie does is not "rare" honestly. And point forward was always his most likely outcome.

His passing ability is absolutely rare. How many bigs have better vision than him? Jokic? Simmons?

Scottie has great vision, and I'd agree for a guy his size it's rare. He has done what he has done with average ball handling skills and footwork. If he improves those, should be able to get where he wants a bit more easily which will open up his passing game a bit more. He makes the simple pass and the pitch ahead pass too, instead of hogging the ball. Maybe he can become a jumbo Lowry for us, where his ability to make his teammates better and intangibles are his defining skill. His motor isn't quite as consistent as Lowry's game to game, but when it's on, it's on and he's definitely maturing, which took Kyle a while as well. I think he has that edge in him, he just needs to bring it out consistently.

My bad, I didn't mean to imply that his mastery of the skill isn't top end. I was more so talking about the concept of a point forward isn't rare. His vision will allow him to be a very good point forward, but still a point forward. For him to be a big PG a la Magic, he really needs to make a lot of improvement on his handle. As good as he is, he still can't put pressure on the defense and bend it with his dribble. That's what I look for in a PG.

Boris Diaw is the first modern example that comes to my head as a comp for the archetype. He never had the assist numbers of Scottie, but he played F and C in PHX/CHA/SA and was the secondary playmaker in the offense. Draymond is another example, and he consistently averages 6-7 assists a game, similar to Scottie. Scottie has higher end ceiling than both these guys as an offensive player but the concept isn't that rare. To truly separate himself from this comp, he needs to learn to handle and dribble at a level we have not yet seen from him.

[Truthrising]

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[wegotthabeet]

Solid ranking IMO. If he wants to move up, he'll have to prove it.

Or just wait for those guys to retire. Everyone after Tatum is old.

[Basketball_Jones]

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Tobias really below Caleb Martin lol

Ahh he’s a sixers fan

[Scase]

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Pretty reasonable IMO.

[Chandan]

I am really curious at what Brandon Miller's ranking would be.

[Syd-TK3]

Positions really don't matter but Scottie is obviously a PF
It will be even more confusing for these people when we draft Ace

[HoopAndTheHarm]

Run it back to the 90s and early 2000s and Barnes would be labeled as a "Point Forward". LeBron has kind of done a lot of that his whole career as well, but the guy I remember getting that talk in his day was Antoine Walker. Celtics ran the ball through his hands all the time. Mind you, 2 years after drafting him, they paired him with a guy named Pierce.
I'm not insinuating Barnes' game and style are anything like Walker's. However, Walker was roughly a 22/9 guy throughout his prime and I can see Scottie hitting those numbers. Scottie's a better assist guy than Walker ever was.

[will]

Dat boy Scottish, baybeeee!

Super hyped for him this upcoming season. Let's go!

[deeps6x]

A Swiss Army knife on the court, Toronto Raptors forward Scottie Barnes can do a bit of everything on both ends of the floor – and at a high level, too. On top of being named an All-Star for the first time in his career last season, Barnes also became just the fourth player ever to post a 19/8/6 stat line at 22 years old or younger, joining a prestigious list featuring Luka Doncic, Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson, two Hall-of-Famers and one player on his way to first-ballot Hall-of-Fame honors.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-the-top-30-small-forwards-for-the-2024-25-season/

Scottie is ranked #7 among small forwards in the league, trailing behind Tatum, Durant, LeBron, Kawhi, PG, and Butler, but ahead of players like DeRozan, Ingram, Franz, Mikal, and OG. Do you think this ranking is too high, too low, or about right?

After Durant and LeBron retire he'll get moved up. Kawhi, PG, and Butler are already showing signs of decline while Barnes should technically continue to improve. I could see him moving into the top 5 after next season and then being top 3 with the likes of Tatum, and another player who either comes into the league or develops like Brandon Miller.

He's going to score more then Kawhi, PG and Butler this season. He'll be the only one of the four that stays healthy.

[DreamTeam09]

Barnes should be one of the strongest wings who handles the ball for the foreseeable future. Maybe #1 once Lebron retires. Which is such an advantage for Lebron that gets brought up enough. He's always going to be the strongest & fastest players with the ball in his hands, makes him unstoppable in transition.

Greek freak too, forgot about him