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The Rob Dillingham Thread

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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#641 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:11 am

thinktank wrote:
FrenchMinnyFan wrote:
thinktank wrote:
And not quantifiable! ;)

Only 7 players averaged 8 or more assists last year. I’d say that’s elite.


Number of assists is just a number. If you make 8 and have 5 TO giving easy points it’s not that goods . Another reason why I love Mike play. His ratio/To is elite and he make the best decision on his play making most of the times. This is something you learn by experience as well and I see no reason Ant and Rob not becoming too players on that part.


All the players who averaged 8 assists or more had at least a 2:1 ratio. That’s good right? ;)


Yes a ratio of 8/2 is elite for me. Ant if still not there but im pretty sure will go there in the next 2 years. For Rob, wait and see. Utah got the same type of expectation with Keyonte and his TO were awful and his shooting 3 not good too . But it's his first year. As i say before , for me you need 3 years with young PG players to know what you get. There is exemptions, like Young ,Mike.... who did performed faster both on shooting and passing but it's not the majority. One and half month to wait and we be there. Never be so impatient for a season to start!
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#642 » by shrink » Mon Aug 26, 2024 2:14 am

Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#643 » by KGdaBom » Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:39 am

shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.

As a person who doesn't give a rat's ass about the swap and the pick I'd rather have Dillingham.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#644 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 26, 2024 2:35 pm

shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.


I agree but I don't know [I doubt] it was possible. Conley is still a better player than Tyus and I doubt he would want to go to the bench this year.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#645 » by shrink » Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:24 pm

Colbinii wrote:
shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.


I agree but I don't know [I doubt] it was possible. Conley is still a better player than Tyus and I doubt he would want to go to the bench this year.

I don’t think Conley would go to the bench, but he’d mainly just play minutes when Gobert is out there, plus he’d take full games off frequently to be fresh for the playoffs this time. As much as I like Rudy, he’ll see bench time when he gets in foul trouble, when the match up doesn’t favor us, and at 32, he should also get rest time.

I think that all the Wolves should understand the big lesson from last season, that we need to be fresh for the playoffs. DAL was not a better team than us, we were just too exhausted to finish fourth quarters after the DEN series, I’ve never been a believer in load management, and I don’t think the numbers support that it prevents injuries. But several Wolves mentioned last year how they were unprepared for the energy it takes to play 100+ games in a season.

I expect most MIN fans are excited about what Dillingham can be, and would rather have him over the picks and Tyus. I’m hopeful in Dillingham too, but I think Tyus would certainly be a better PG this year, the season we have our best chance at a championship. I’d have loved it if Tyus could have been a part of that.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#646 » by thinktank » Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:41 pm

Tyus wanted a starting job and he wasn’t interested in us.

To let Tyus prevent you from acquiring Dillingham, who has a much higher ceiling, would’ve been a huge mistake.

I don’t think Tyus is moving you closer to a chip. He’s a borderline starter.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#647 » by Klomp » Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:42 pm

shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.

Tyus on minimum, but without Bird rights...awfully short-sighted.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#648 » by BlacJacMac » Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:31 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.

Tyus on minimum, but without Bird rights...awfully short-sighted.


Yup.

Phoenix makes a ton of sense. They have a desperate need for a true PG and Tyus needs to show he can be a starter for a Playoff team.

Its clearly not meant to be anything beyond a single year deal.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#649 » by shrink » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:22 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.

Tyus on minimum, but without Bird rights...awfully short-sighted.

Again, this season when we bring back our top 7 players, is likely our best chance at a ring. Many other Western Conference contenders have financially had to gut their team removing key starters and most of their bench. It sounds like Dillingham is going to get a lot of minutes, and rookies in their first year, particularly tiny rookies in bad drafts, are highly unlikely to be positive players in Year One. You KNOW Tyus is a positive player, in fact he is top 100 in WS and VORP, particularly since he’s making three pointers now too (41.4%). It’s only short-sighted IF Dillingham becomes an important player, and IF it happens sometime in three years or so. Wolves fans are too comfortable wasting minutes on development, when there has never been a more important season to use minutes to Win Now.

Finally, we won’t be able to tell what is truly short-sighted until we see the outcome of losing the 2030 pick swap and the 2031 unprotected pick, right? Gambling on Dillingham now could be bad short term and long term.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#650 » by BlacJacMac » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:34 pm

So the following year, you don't have Tyus or Dillingham, just Conley 1 year older and closer to retirement.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#651 » by thinktank » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:58 pm

Plus Ant is 23.

There’s no way this is our best shot at a championship.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#652 » by Klomp » Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:46 pm

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Connelly couldn’t have known it at the time, but one negative outcome from drafting Dillingham made us a less appealing place for Tyus on the minimum. No guarantee we’d even get him with Mike Conley here, but he’d certainly get plenty of playing time, he’d get to be at home, and he’d have a better chance for a ring joining the Wolves. I bet if he had come for this season’s try for a ring, for the rest of his life, he’d never have to pay for his own drink in a Minnesota bar, ever again!

For me, I’d rather have 2031 MIN unprotected + 2030 MIN swap + Tyus on minimum > Dillingham.

Tyus on minimum, but without Bird rights...awfully short-sighted.

Again, this season when we bring back our top 7 players, is likely our best chance at a ring. Many other Western Conference contenders have financially had to gut their team removing key starters and most of their bench. It sounds like Dillingham is going to get a lot of minutes, and rookies in their first year, particularly tiny rookies in bad drafts, are highly unlikely to be positive players in Year One. You KNOW Tyus is a positive player, in fact he is top 100 in WS and VORP, particularly since he’s making three pointers now too (41.4%). It’s only short-sighted IF Dillingham becomes an important player, and IF it happens sometime in three years or so. Wolves fans are too comfortable wasting minutes on development, when there has never been a more important season to use minutes to Win Now.

Finally, we won’t be able to tell what is truly short-sighted until we see the outcome of losing the 2030 pick swap and the 2031 unprotected pick, right? Gambling on Dillingham now could be bad short term and long term.

I absolutely understand the fear. But I think it's important to remember that we don't know what the future holds. We can think doom and gloom because we're the Timberwolves after all, but I don't think this iteration is the end.

Take a step back in time five years. The Denver Nuggets made their first trip to the Western Conference Finals. But they had an older core of veterans in the starting lineup with 34-year old Paul Millsap, 29-year old Will Barton and 25-year old Gary Harris. While they fell short of the Western Conference Finals in the next year, they set themselves up for success by trading away Barton and Harris by bringing in Aaron Gordon, who was a year younger than Harris and whose age matched star Nikola Jokic. While it took another couple seasons to match and surpass the team success they had reached, Jokic was entering his reign as one of the greatest players in the NBA, winning three MVPs in four years. The team success plateaued for a while, but came back around eventually.

That's a lot like what I see here. Our team success might plateau over the next few seasons while we're in a bit of cap hell, but I expect Ant's individual game to continue to blossom. Some players might come and go. But what having 8 players who are 25 years old or younger does is it gives us options. It gives us lottery tickets, which we can either hold onto or make a trade with down the road.

I don't really see a complete bottoming out in Dillingham's future. I know he's small and I know he's not great on defense, but I think offensively he will be solid from the start. That gives the franchise a baseline. That baseline is as a bench scorer and offense-creator, which was also a massive need for this team in the offseason. I don't believe it is doom and gloom if Dillingham does not ever become a full-time starting PG, because he just has to come in and fill in one of two needs. Being that weapon off the bench fills that need. This then contributes to the team's overall success, which lessens the impact of the 2030 pick swap or the 2031 unprotected pick. This is why I am so excited about him! It's not because I see the next Kyrie Irving. It's because he has double the opportunity to fill a longterm hole within this franchise.

Technically, Ant was a "negative player" up until this season. Jaden McDaniels had a negative VORP last year, the worst on the entire roster. Sometimes, numbers don't tell the entire story, despite how much we want to discover a groundbreaking statistic that does. There is a reason that every "advanced" statistic has flaws.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#653 » by shrink » Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:31 pm

Aaron Gordon had played six years in the NBA. Rob Dillingham hasn’t played 6 minutes.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#654 » by shrink » Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:33 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:So the following year, you don't have Tyus or Dillingham, just Conley 1 year older and closer to retirement.

So this year, we reduce our chances for an NBA championship, and the following year we only have whoever we could trade for with the 2030 pick swap and 2031 unprotected 1st?
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#655 » by thinktank » Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:36 pm

shrink wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:So the following year, you don't have Tyus or Dillingham, just Conley 1 year older and closer to retirement.

So this year, we reduce our chances for an NBA championship, and the following year we only have whoever we could trade for with the 2030 pick swap and 2031 unprotected 1st?


Tyus was never coming here.

“They were never really in on Tyus Jones. A lot of people hit me up saying, ‘I can’t believe Tyus is going to Phoenix for the veteran minimum.’ If you had told me on July 2nd Tyus Jones would sign for the veteran minimum, I would have said hey you’re crazy. I would have said the same thing about Gary Trent Jr. It’s the life of aprons and all that stuff, but he wasn’t coming here to be a backup. The Wolves are not demoting Mike Conley Jr. The Wolves knew that, so there were never any sort of talks between Tyus Jones and the Wolves…He will start for the Phoenix Suns. Betting on himself that he can now cash out this time next year.“

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/tyus_jones_had_no_interest_in_sitting_on_timberwolves_bench/s1_17359_40687960#:~:text=When%20the%20Minnesota%20Timberwolves%20turned,a%20running%20mate%20was%20needed.

^^^ That's a reporter with way more insight than anyone on our board and I'm being kind.^^^

"We made a mistake by not signing a guy who wasn't interested in coming here."

That's illogical. It was an impossibility. So much so, that the Wolves "were never really in on Tyus Jones."
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#656 » by thinktank » Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:42 pm

shrink wrote:Aaron Gordon had played six years in the NBA. Rob Dillingham hasn’t played 6 minutes.


You missed his point. He's talking about Aaron Gordon because he replaced Paul Millsap in the depth chart.

You're saying this is our best chance to win a chip because we have our top 7 or 8 guys locked down this year only. His point is that we can't assume that. Nuggets upgraded at PF with a locked up Gordon, for example, and he was / is better than Millsap.

But that's a whole different story, because Tyus was never coming here. Period.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#657 » by Note30 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:44 am

thinktank wrote:Plus Ant is 23.

There’s no way this is our best shot at a championship.


He could be the GOAT, doesn't matter if the supporting cast is trash. This might be our best shot pending some massive fleece.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#658 » by Klomp » Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:50 am

Note30 wrote:
thinktank wrote:Plus Ant is 23.

There’s no way this is our best shot at a championship.


He could be the GOAT, doesn't matter if the supporting cast is trash. This might be our best shot pending some massive fleece.

Why is it all or nothing?! Why is it determined that after this year the roster will turn to trash?
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#659 » by Note30 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 4:13 am

Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:
thinktank wrote:Plus Ant is 23.

There’s no way this is our best shot at a championship.


He could be the GOAT, doesn't matter if the supporting cast is trash. This might be our best shot pending some massive fleece.

Why is it all or nothing?! Why is it determined that after this year the roster will turn to trash?


Point guard leaving is big deal. Gobert another year older.

But most of all, because we don't have the assets to improve. Barring some insane growth from our rookies or current youngsters we're about as good as we're gonna get.

I don't think a coaching change would affect us positively, and trading Karl to break him down into younger pieces will not work out well.

At this point we're capped.
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Re: The Rob Dillingham Thread 

Post#660 » by WolfAddict » Tue Aug 27, 2024 4:41 am

Note30 wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Note30 wrote:
He could be the GOAT, doesn't matter if the supporting cast is trash. This might be our best shot pending some massive fleece.

Why is it all or nothing?! Why is it determined that after this year the roster will turn to trash?


Point guard leaving is big deal. Gobert another year older.

But most of all, because we don't have the assets to improve. Barring some insane growth from our rookies or current youngsters we're about as good as we're gonna get.

I don't think a coaching change would affect us positively, and trading Karl to break him down into younger pieces will not work out well.

At this point we're capped.

I disagree - I don't think we need "insane" growth at all, but more the natural level of growth most NBA players achieve throughout a career. We have a solid bunch of players who, in my opinion, are trending upwards in regards to progression.

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