2025 NBA Draft Class

[BlazersBroncos]

Evans had alot to like earlier last season. I think he is a late lotto guy who has some nice upside as a do-it-all utility forward with + size. Guys that fit that archetype are in big demand. I like him quite a bit more than Collins Murray-Boyles. Evans has a bad 3 (26%) but was near 80% from FT. CMB didnt even try to shoot the 3 and was a pretty bad 3PT guy. Think CMB is sort of like TJD - really nice everywhere except for where it REALLY counts (shooting). Think w/o a shooting renaissance CMB ends up going in a similar slot as Ryan Dunn (Late R1 - Early R2).

As for Ace - what seperates him from a Ron Holland (IE bouncy athlete, strong downhill player, lacking in the skills department).

[clyde21]

Evans had alot to like earlier last season. I think he is a late lotto guy who has some nice upside as a do-it-all utility forward with + size. Guys that fit that archetype are in big demand. I like him quite a bit more than Collins Murray-Boyles. Evans has a bad 3 (26%) but was near 80% from FT. CMB didnt even try to shoot the 3 and was a pretty bad 3PT guy. Think CMB is sort of like TJD - really nice everywhere except for where it REALLY counts (shooting). Think w/o a shooting renaissance CMB ends up going in a similar slot as Ryan Dunn (Late R1 - Early R2).

As for Ace - what seperates him from a Ron Holland (IE bouncy athlete, strong downhill player, lacking in the skills department).

Evans was promising very early in the season but plateaued hard about 15 games in and actually kinda got worse as the season went along, not sure what happened but if he get early season Evans next season (and hopefully even better) then we're talking

[Chi town]

How many best player on the team/lead guard/1st options do you see in this draft?

Think I see 5-7. I know Flagg wont be the leading scorer but probably the best player in the future.

Flagg, Bailey, Harper, VJ, Traore, Saraf Will Riley

Riley can really score and his 3 ball in this NBA could be Reggie Milleresque.

Saraf is like 2 way Manu but more like Harden on offense. Elite IQ and instincts.

[babyjax13]

Think I see 5-7. I know Flagg wont be the leading scorer but probably the best player in the future.

Flagg, Bailey, Harper, VJ, Traore, Saraf Will Riley

Riley can really score and his 3 ball in this NBA could be Reggie Milleresque.

Saraf is like 2 way Manu but more like Harden on offense. Elite IQ and instincts.

I think more than one emerges, but the only guy I feel reasonably confident about as the best player on a very good playoff team is Flagg. There are, however, lots of guys where that kind of outcome would not be shocking (I don't have a super strong opinion of who those guys are yet, but Edgecombe, Traore, Bailey, Harper, Saraf, Newell, and Gonzales all come to mind).

[clyde21]

i'd advise against declaring anyone is a 'can't miss' (other than maybe Flagg) this early in the process. don't get burned. we still have 9 months of evals ahead of us.

[Chi town]

i'd advise against declaring anyone is a 'can't miss' (other than maybe Flagg) this early in the process. don't get burned. we still have 9 months of evals ahead of us.

Of course.

Right now is what we see as top shelf outcomes based on potential shown.

I don’t think I had one guy in 24 draft that I could say that for.

[Duke4life831]

Flagg is the only top tier prospect and Bailey is the next. Everyone else has some big time question marks with them.

VJ’s size and handle. In the original Hoop Summit measurements, they had VJ at 6’3 (in shoes) and a 6’5 wingspan. That is PG size and he’s not a PG at all.

Harper is skilled, but is he explosive enough and is he going to be efficient enough and versatile enough (for how high usage he has always been, never been a consistent facilitator).

Traore was so damn impressive in the summer. Just haven’t seen all that much of him personally. But over the summer he looked like the 2nd best guy in this class. My knowledge for young international guys is limited.

I definitely have a lot more hype for this class compared to the previous one for the domestic guys. But won’t be shocked if by the end of the college season, outside of Flagg and Bailey, if everyone else had some big time question marks on them.

[crows2]

As for Ace - what seperates him from a Ron Holland (IE bouncy athlete, strong downhill player, lacking in the skills department).

I think Bailey is a more explosive athlete than Holland, but ultimately what will seperate him is how he performs this year. If he looks good in college he’ll be a top 3 pick. If he has a poor pre-draft year like Holland did, he’ll fall into that range. It’d be foolish to feel certain one way or the other at this early stage in the process.

[clyde21]

there are real differences physically between Ace and Holland, first Ace is a legit 6-8 without shoes, that's a real threshold, second he's also just more athletic than Ron across the board...obviously Ron is a great athlete himself but Ace is even better, combine that with his height and just overall build (wider shoulders) and he should scale better physically...physically Ace is like an Andrew Wiggins, just a different tier and it's not just about explosiveness.

that said yes, of course it'll come down to how he performs in college just like anyone else...but even if he *kinda* disappoints just like Wiggy did at Kansas, unless he completely craps the bed he should still go relatively high.

[babyjax13]

I feel like half the time I hear Bailey described I've see a different player. I didn't see a guy who was nearly as athletic as Wiggins or Holland. Granted, I've seen him in three games ... and this (from my bad mock):

I do see him grab his right knee in some games and he does not have great vertical explosiveness in the games I've watched. I'm not sure if I just happened to see him playing at a time where he had a knee strain, etc. but I am saying this both to qualify my skepticism about him and to see if it continues to be a visible issue.

[Hal14]

VJ’s size and handle. In the original Hoop Summit measurements, they had VJ at 6’3 (in shoes) and a 6’5 wingspan. That is PG size and he’s not a PG at all.

Those original measurements were clearly wrong. VJ is obviously not 6'3" when you look at him.

And Chomche's measurements at the draft combine matched the corrected measurements that got released later on (from nike hoop summit) - not the original nike hoop summit measurements.

In the corrected measurements, VJ is 6'5" with 6'6" wingspan.FIBA also listed VJ at 6'5" this summer when he competed with Bahamas..still not great size for a wing but it's better than 6'3"..and he plays bigger than 6'5" with how bouncy he is and the vertical leap that is clearly 40" or higher..

[Catchall]

I'd guess that Drake Powell is likely a top-10 guy in this class.

[Catchall]

VJ’s size and handle. In the original Hoop Summit measurements, they had VJ at 6’3 (in shoes) and a 6’5 wingspan. That is PG size and he’s not a PG at all.

Those original measurements were clearly wrong. VJ is obviously not 6'3" when you look at him.

And Chomche's measurements at the draft combine matched the corrected measurements that got released later on - not the original measurements.

In the corrected measurements, VJ is 6'5" with 6'6" wingspan.FIBA also listed VJ at 6'5" this summer when he competed with Bahamas..still not great size for a wing but it's better than 6'3"..and he plays bigger than 6'5" with how bouncy he is and the vertical leap that is clearly 40" or higher..

I think VJ will probably measure out in the 6'4" range (without shoes), which is adequate for a 2-guard given his athleticism.

[babyjax13]

VJ’s size and handle. In the original Hoop Summit measurements, they had VJ at 6’3 (in shoes) and a 6’5 wingspan. That is PG size and he’s not a PG at all.

Those original measurements were clearly wrong. VJ is obviously not 6'3" when you look at him.

And Chomche's measurements at the draft combine matched the corrected measurements that got released later on - not the original measurements.

In the corrected measurements, VJ is 6'5" with 6'6" wingspan.FIBA also listed VJ at 6'5" this summer when he competed with Bahamas..still not great size for a wing but it's better than 6'3"..and he plays bigger than 6'5" with how bouncy he is and the vertical leap that is clearly 40" or higher..

I've seen him listed from 6-3 to 6-5 with a 6-5 to 6-9 wingspan. I think some of the variance is due to how places measure height, the Hoops Summit measurements are in shoes (including the corrected measurements). I suspect he is closer to 6-3/6-4 without shoes. That should have him comparable in size to Victor Oladipo (6-4 with 6-9 wingspan) if his wingspan is on the larger side. If it is on the smaller side he is going to be closer to the size of McCollum (6-3 with 6-6 wingspan). VJ is thinner than both, but also more athletic. I think he will be fine defending 1s and 2s with his athleticism but he is definitely small for a shooting guard.

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[FrodoBaggins]

Flory Bidunga has some nice measurements. 6'8.5" barefoot height, 7'2.5" wingspan, 9'1" standing reach. Brandon Ingram-esque.

Those numbers would be a great result for Cooper Flagg. When combined with his mobility, particularly his general fluidity and quick-and-high leaping, Cooper would have legitimate potential PF positional size and maybe even some small-ball C. His weight and strength will factor into the equation as well.

According to a 2019 study, the average drafted PF has a 7'1" (216cm) wingspan and 8'11" (202cm) standing reach and the average drafted C has a 7'3" (221.4cm) wingspan and a 9'1.5" (278.2cm) standing reach.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6820507/table/T2/?report=objectonly

And of course, we'll see if the shooting, ball-handling, and first step are there and allow him to play SF. The dream outcome would allow Cooper to slide between the three and four to fit with various types of teammates and even man the five in small-ball matchups.

[FrodoBaggins]

Similar-looking frames. Bidunga about 10 pounds heavier but also 1.5 years older.

[Hal14]

I've seen him listed from 6-3 to 6-5 with a 6-5 to 6-9 wingspan.

The only source I see anywhere that says 6'3" were the original hoop summit measurements which everyone knows are wrong. Everywhere else says 6'5" (247 sorts, FIBA, Baylor, SI, RealGM, the correct hoop summit measurements, EYBL, US Basket, etc.). The only place that says 6'4" is ESPN..and they could be listing his height without shoes.

I go by height in shoes, since basketball is played in shoes.

Hoop Summit is the only official measurement we have on VJ, so I'll go with that (6'5" in shoes).

That should have him comparable in size to Victor Oladipo (6-4 with 6-9 wingspan) if his wingspan is on the larger side. If it is on the smaller side he is going to be closer to the size of McCollum (6-3 with 6-6 wingspan). VJ is thinner than both, but also more athletic. I think he will be fine defending 1s and 2s with his athleticism but he is definitely small for a shooting guard.

Instead of cherry picking 2 guys (CJ, Oladipo), why not use a larger sample size. Each player's height in shoes, ranked from shortest to tallest:

Terry Rozier 6'2.25"
Donovan Mitchell 6'3"
McCollum 6'3.25"
Jalen Green 6'4"
Ant Edwards 6'4"
Cam Thomas 6'4"
Oladipo 6'4.25"
Isaiah Joe 6'4.5"
Malik Beasley 6'4.5"
Donte Divencenzo 6'4.5"
Bradley Beal 6'4.75"
VJ Edgecombe 6'5"
Nickeil Alexander-Walker 6'5.5"
Devin Booker 6'5.75"
Gary Trent Jr 6'5.75"
Tyler Herro 6'6"

Out of 16 players who play mostly at the SG position, VJ is 12th out of 16 in height, so he's certainly on the taller side for a SG. I didn't include guys like Jaylen Brown, Derozan, Butler, Middleton, Mikal, etc. who play a lot at the 3, which would be more of an apples to oranges comparison.

In the interest of time, I didn't look up wingspan for all of these guys. Wingspan doesn't really matter as much for SG's anyways, imo. It's more important for bigs, or for long, rangey wings who get lots of their value from defense (OG, Mikal, Jordan Walsh, Jaden Mcdaniels, etc.).

And while you could say VV is thinner than some of these guys, that's not really fair to VJ because you're comparing him at age 19 (still has a full year of weight lifting at Baylor ahead of him) to guys who have been in the league 5-10 (or more) years who have way more years of weight lifting under their belts.

[clyde21]

Out of 16 players who play mostly at the SG position.

i mean, that's the key statement there no? 'out of all the guys positionally locked into one position because of their size'

that's the entire point

[Hal14]

I've seen him listed from 6-3 to 6-5 with a 6-5 to 6-9 wingspan.

The only source I see anywhere that says 6'3" were the original hoop summit measurements which everyone knows are wrong. Everywhere else says 6'5" (247 sorts, FIBA, Baylor, SI, RealGM, the correct hoop summit measurements, EYBL, US Basket, etc.). The only place that says 6'4" is ESPN..and they could be listing his height without shoes.

I go by height in shoes, since basketball is played in shoes.

Hoop Summit is the only official measurement we have on VJ, so I'll go with that (6'5" in shoes).

That should have him comparable in size to Victor Oladipo (6-4 with 6-9 wingspan) if his wingspan is on the larger side. If it is on the smaller side he is going to be closer to the size of McCollum (6-3 with 6-6 wingspan). VJ is thinner than both, but also more athletic. I think he will be fine defending 1s and 2s with his athleticism but he is definitely small for a shooting guard.

Instead of cherry picking 2 guys (CJ, Oladipo), why not use a larger sample size. Each player's height in shoes, ranked from shortest to tallest:

Terry Rozier 6'2.25"
Donovan Mitchell 6'3"
McCollum 6'3.25"
Jalen Green 6'4"
Ant Edwards 6'4"
Cam Thomas 6'4"
Oladipo 6'4.25"
Isaiah Joe 6'4.5"
Malik Beasley 6'4.5"
Donte Divencenzo 6'4.5"
Bradley Beal 6'4.75"
VJ Edgecombe 6'5"
Nickeil Alexander-Walker 6'5.5"
Devin Booker 6'5.75"
Gary Trent Jr 6'5.75"
Tyler Herro 6'6"

Out of 16 players who play mostly at the SG position, VJ is 12th out of 16 in height, so he's certainly on the taller side for a SG. I didn't include guys like Jaylen Brown, Derozan, Butler, Middleton, Mikal, etc. who play a lot at the 3, which would be more of an apples to oranges comparison.

In the interest of time, I didn't look up wingspan for all of these guys. Wingspan doesn't really matter as much for SG's anyways, imo. It's more important for bigs, or for long, rangey wings who get lots of their value from defense (OG, Mikal, Jordan Walsh, Jaden Mcdaniels, etc.).

And while you could say VJ is thinner than some of these guys, that's not really fair to VJ because you're comparing him at age 19 (still has a full year of weight lifting at Baylor ahead of him) to guys who have been in the league 5-10 (or more) years who have way more years of weight lifting under their belts.

I mean, the 16 guys I listed are all good NBA players. Quite a few of them would go in the top 3-5 picks in a re-draft of most classes.

Other guys who are locked into 1 position due to size: Brook Lopez, Gobert, Jokic, De'Aaron Fox, Ja, Trae, Steph, Embiid, Kemba Walker, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, Dwight Howard, Garland, Scoot, Myles Turner, Nic Claxton, etc. Lots of really good players.

Also, I said mostly at SG...not "only" at SG so the guys I listed can at times play another position, such as the 1 or the 3..

Also, whether he's locked into 1 position or not is besides the point. The other guy said VJ is small for a SG. That is what I was responding to. I made a case for why he's not small for SG. Full stop. Let's not move goal posts here..

[babyjax13]

I've seen him listed from 6-3 to 6-5 with a 6-5 to 6-9 wingspan.

The only source I see anywhere that says 6'3" were the original hoop summit measurements which everyone knows are wrong. Everywhere else says 6'5" (247 sorts, FIBA, Baylor, SI, RealGM, the correct hoop summit measurements, EYBL, US Basket, etc.). The only place that says 6'4" is ESPN..and they could be listing his height without shoes.

I go by height in shoes, since basketball is played in shoes.

Hoop Summit is the only official measurement we have on VJ, so I'll go with that (6'5" in shoes).

That should have him comparable in size to Victor Oladipo (6-4 with 6-9 wingspan) if his wingspan is on the larger side. If it is on the smaller side he is going to be closer to the size of McCollum (6-3 with 6-6 wingspan). VJ is thinner than both, but also more athletic. I think he will be fine defending 1s and 2s with his athleticism but he is definitely small for a shooting guard.

Instead of cherry picking 2 guys (CJ, Oladipo), why not use a larger sample size. Each player's height in shoes, ranked from shortest to tallest:

Terry Rozier 6'2.25"
Donovan Mitchell 6'3"
McCollum 6'3.25"
Jalen Green 6'4"
Ant Edwards 6'4"
Cam Thomas 6'4"
Oladipo 6'4.25"
Isaiah Joe 6'4.5"
Malik Beasley 6'4.5"
Donte Divencenzo 6'4.5"
Bradley Beal 6'4.75"
VJ Edgecombe 6'5"
Nickeil Alexander-Walker 6'5.5"
Devin Booker 6'5.75"
Gary Trent Jr 6'5.75"
Tyler Herro 6'6"

Out of 16 players who play mostly at the SG position, VJ is 12th out of 16 in height, so he's certainly on the taller side for a SG. I didn't include guys like Jaylen Brown, Derozan, Butler, Middleton, Mikal, etc. who play a lot at the 3, which would be more of an apples to oranges comparison.

In the interest of time, I didn't look up wingspan for all of these guys. Wingspan doesn't really matter as much for SG's anyways, imo. It's more important for bigs, or for long, rangey wings who get lots of their value from defense (OG, Mikal, Jordan Walsh, Jaden Mcdaniels, etc.).

And while you could say VV is thinner than some of these guys, that's not really fair to VJ because you're comparing him at age 19 (still has a full year of weight lifting at Baylor ahead of him) to guys who have been in the league 5-10 (or more) years who have way more years of weight lifting under their belts.

We will see what the measurements are, but I think he'll be on the small side for his position. It's only somewhat relevant for his upside, but does matter. E.g. Mitchell has a 6-10 wingspan that at least makes him disruptive in the passing lanes at time, in addition to being one of the best athletes at his position.