Kessler for Dadiet, Sims, [pick(s)]

[babyjax13]

A New York fan has suggested Dadiet + stuff for Kessler, and I think they are correct that this is the most likely outcome for a Kessler trade. I don't know how the Jazz feel about Dadiet, but I thought he looked like a reasonably interesting prospect as a 6-8 wing who doesn't have a broken jumper and has some ability to handle the ball at the level in which he played last year.

So the debate is what picks make it even - I think Jazz fans will want the Detroit pick, which seems like it has a good chance to convey - but the Washington pick + a 2nd or two seems more likely to me.

What say you?

UTA trades: Walker Kessler
NYK trades: Pacome Dadiet + filler (Sims?) + (see below)

One of: 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9 in 2027; otherwise 2027 DET 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, otherwise 2026 and 2027 2nds)

AND/OR

Multiple of: 2025 BOS/MEM 2nd (higher), 2026 BOS/MIL/DET 2nd (worst), 2026 GSW 2nd, 2027 OKC/HOU/IND/MIA 2nd (second and third most favorable), 2028 IND/PHX 2nd (less favorable)

Why UTA does it: swap Kessler for wing we worked out, get a pick or picks to use in trades or to draft someone. I imagine we'd try Hendricks at center to see what he can do there, too.

Why NYK does it: get a starting caliber center who can compete with Robinson for minutes and/or run a minutes split that maintains 48 minutes of elite rim protection.

[shangrila]

Why are there picks?

It's clear Kessler isn't in the Jazz's future plans and he's not exactly blown anyone away. Getting what amounts to a late 1st for him in Dadiet should be more than enough.

[SkyHook]

A New York fan has suggested Dadiet + stuff for Kessler, and I think they are correct that this is the most likely outcome for a Kessler trade. I don't know how the Jazz feel about Dadiet, but I thought he looked like a reasonably interesting prospect as a 6-8 wing who doesn't have a broken jumper and has some ability to handle the ball at the level in which he played last year.

So the debate is what picks make it even - I think Jazz fans will want the Detroit pick, which seems like it has a good chance to convey - but the Washington pick + a 2nd or two seems more likely to me.

What say you?

UTA trades: Walker Kessler
NYK trades: Pacome Dadiet + filler (Sims?) + (see below)

One of: 2025 DET 1st (1-13, 1-11, 1-9 in 2027; otherwise 2027 DET 2nd), 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, otherwise 2026 and 2027 2nds)

AND/OR

Multiple of: 2025 BOS/MEM 2nd (higher), 2026 BOS/MIL/DET 2nd (worst), 2026 GSW 2nd, 2027 OKC/HOU/IND/MIA 2nd (second and third most favorable), 2028 IND/PHX 2nd (less favorable)

Why UTA does it: swap Kessler for wing we worked out, get a pick or picks to use in trades or to draft someone. I imagine we'd try Hendricks at center to see what he can do there, too.

Why NYK does it: get a starting caliber center who can compete with Robinson for minutes and/or run a minutes split that maintains 48 minutes of elite rim protection.

It would depend on how much the Jazz were enamored with Dadiet, I suppose. I like his upside as a 3&D wing.

Despite his regression last season, this proposal is still likely selling short on Kessler though. Are the Jazz motivated to move on from him? Other than one throwaway statement from Eric Pincus about Walker possibly not being in Utah's long term plans, I haven't seen anything recently to suggest this.

[brackdan70]

Why are there picks?

It's clear Kessler isn't in the Jazz's future plans and he's not exactly blown anyone away. Getting what amounts to a late 1st for him in Dadiet should be more than enough.

Not being in future plans doesn’t affect value.
Also not sure that it’s “clear”

[brackdan70]

Simmons, Dadiet and the Detroit or Washington 1st is probably pretty close on value. Maybe another second need to be added?
I don’t think Utah would do it though, unless there is a little richer value. Those picks could easily not convey and turn into seconds.

[cgf]

I've been wondering about a Dadiet + Payne + package, but I think at this point I'm curious to see where Sims is. He looked pretty solid last season and I won't be shocked if he takes the primary backup Center job from Achiuwa this year. At which point Kessler might not be that much of an upgrade.

Center is certainly the spot we are most likely to need depth this year, but we might be good if we get one of Mitch's 59+ game seasons, Achiuwa pickups where he left off, and/or Sims progresses. It could just as easily end up being at forward where we need to bring someone like Kuzma in, to backfill for some of Randle's creation when the Heat take him out again.

Since we have so few assets left, we should probably wait to see where we actually need to spend them before emptying the clip. But if we can do it without the Detroit FRP, McBride, or Sims, we should probably pull the trigger.

[cgf]

Simmons, Dadiet and the Detroit or Washington 1st is probably pretty close on value. Maybe another second need to be added?
I don’t think Utah would do it though, unless there is a little richer value. Those picks could easily not convey and turn into seconds.

Those detroit and Washington picks should have very different values. The Washington pick is almost certain not to convey at this point, but that Detroit pick is still very interesting IMO. Protected for 3 more years (1-13, 1-11, 1-9) with an organization that has quite a bit of young talent already and wants to win more games, I can definitely see that returning a late lotto pick still.

[Godaddycurse]

Simmons, Dadiet and the Detroit or Washington 1st is probably pretty close on value. Maybe another second need to be added?
I don’t think Utah would do it though, unless there is a little richer value. Those picks could easily not convey and turn into seconds.

Those detroit and Washington picks should have very different values. The Washington pick is almost certain not to convey at this point, but that Detroit pick is still very interesting IMO. Protected for 3 more years (1-13, 1-11, 1-9) with an organization that has quite a bit of young talent already and wants to win more games, I can definitely see that returning a late lotto pick still.

Nah it will either be non lotto or 2nd imo. With those kinds of protection Detroit will pull a Utah/Dallas and tank to keep its pick.

[wemby]

Why are there picks?

It's clear Kessler isn't in the Jazz's future plans and he's not exactly blown anyone away. Getting what amounts to a late 1st for him in Dadiet should be more than enough.

Not being in future plans doesn’t affect value.
Also not sure that it’s “clear”

Yeah, nothing says cornerstone of future Jazz like being benched for John Collins, I'm sure the Jazz had nothing to do with all the reports he was available.

[cgf]

Simmons, Dadiet and the Detroit or Washington 1st is probably pretty close on value. Maybe another second need to be added?
I don’t think Utah would do it though, unless there is a little richer value. Those picks could easily not convey and turn into seconds.

Those detroit and Washington picks should have very different values. The Washington pick is almost certain not to convey at this point, but that Detroit pick is still very interesting IMO. Protected for 3 more years (1-13, 1-11, 1-9) with an organization that has quite a bit of young talent already and wants to win more games, I can definitely see that returning a late lotto pick still.

Nah it will either be non lotto or 2nd imo. With those kinds of protection Detroit will pull a Utah/Dallas and tank to keep its pick.

If Detroit's kids finally start to put it together and win games only for the organization to pull the rug out from under them in order to keep a late lotto pick, that fanbase might just burn the arena down. Utah & Dallas haven't been as awful for as long as Detroit has. That fanbase needs some reason to believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Plus Dallas did it because they had few resources and Utah did it because Ainge is in asset accumulation mode.

Neither would be the case if Detroit's kids started to pull a Houston. Detroit would own all of its picks but the one they owed us, so extinguishing their obligation to NY would actually free the Pistons up to make more moves than keeping that pick.

And...unlike Washington...they have been in asset accumulation mode for ages, now they're in 'hoping their kids can start to win games' mode.

[cgf]

Why are there picks?

It's clear Kessler isn't in the Jazz's future plans and he's not exactly blown anyone away. Getting what amounts to a late 1st for him in Dadiet should be more than enough.

Not being in future plans doesn’t affect value.
Also not sure that it’s “clear”

Yeah, nothing says cornerstone of future Jazz like being benched for John Collins, I'm sure the Jazz had nothing to do with all the reports he was available.

Eh. They're trying to rehab Collins value while he's there and starting a center who sucks defensively while helping space the court is a good way to tank without hurting everyone's trade value. I dunno how much to read into that.

[JayTWill]

Simmons, Dadiet and the Detroit or Washington 1st is probably pretty close on value. Maybe another second need to be added?
I don’t think Utah would do it though, unless there is a little richer value. Those picks could easily not convey and turn into seconds.

Those detroit and Washington picks should have very different values. The Washington pick is almost certain not to convey at this point, but that Detroit pick is still very interesting IMO. Protected for 3 more years (1-13, 1-11, 1-9) with an organization that has quite a bit of young talent already and wants to win more games, I can definitely see that returning a late lotto pick still.

Nah it will either be non lotto or 2nd imo. With those kinds of protection Detroit will pull a Utah/Dallas and tank to keep its pick.

Yeah but how long can they continue to tank intentionally or not? They are struggling to fill their stadium with some of the cheapest ticket prices in the league. It's easy to say that they can just tank to keep their pick if you just look at the window from now until 2027 but they have already been "tanking" for many years prior to this.

Also as a Raptors' fan you know tanking to keep your pick does not always work out. The Raptors tanked to keep their top 6 protected pick but got leap-frogged in this new lottery system by 2 teams and ended up falling from 6 to 8 and losing their pick to the Spurs.

[JayTWill]

I've been wondering about a Dadiet + Payne + package, but I think at this point I'm curious to see where Sims is. He looked pretty solid last season and I won't be shocked if he takes the primary backup Center job from Achiuwa this year. At which point Kessler might not be that much of an upgrade.

Center is certainly the spot we are most likely to need depth this year, but we might be good if we get one of Mitch's 59+ game seasons, Achiuwa pickups where he left off, and Sims progresses. It could well be at forward where we need to bring someone like Kuzma in to backfill for some of Randle's creation if the Heat take him out again.

Since we have so few assets left, we should probably wait to see where we actually need to spend them before emptying the clip.

Yeah, I was thinking about Dadiet + Payne + package also and I also have some curiosity about Sims this year too. I'm less high on him as a player than you but I have always wanted to see the bigs with guards that are more natural distributors. I'm curious how guys like Mitch and Sims would look with someone Kolek that may actually find the bigs when rolling down the lane.

Based on last season and this off-season I feel like Thibs played Precious more out of necessity than actual desire. They lost a good chunk of their front rotation which forced Thibs to play him heavy minutes but even with Randle out, Bogey struggling and Mitch never being fully healthy Precious was out of the rotation by the start of the playoffs.

Precious did a fine job of eating up minutes when necessary and I loved his energy but he is a clunky fit with many of the lineups and the 1 year deal this offseason with him waving the no-trade clause makes it seem like the Knicks will be looking to include him in a deal this year. Sims depth may be needed especially with Mitch's injury history.

Pacome is an interesting prospect and I would be glad to watch him slowly develop but I don't see a window to playing time for him for many years behind OG/Nova. He just turned 19. The Knicks can be patient with him but he could also just become a depreciating asset that rarely touches the court.

As a Knicks' fan I would like to keep the deal centered around Pacome + Payne + Washington protected pick + maybe another possible 2nd(s) but I could understand why Utah may say no depending on how high they value Kessler or Pacome. I desperately want to hold onto the Detroit pick since it is the only pick the Knicks have for a while they may have some potential future value.

[Godaddycurse]

Those detroit and Washington picks should have very different values. The Washington pick is almost certain not to convey at this point, but that Detroit pick is still very interesting IMO. Protected for 3 more years (1-13, 1-11, 1-9) with an organization that has quite a bit of young talent already and wants to win more games, I can definitely see that returning a late lotto pick still.

Nah it will either be non lotto or 2nd imo. With those kinds of protection Detroit will pull a Utah/Dallas and tank to keep its pick.

If Detroit's kids finally start to put it together and win games only for the organization to pull the rug out from under them in order to keep a late lotto pick, that fanbase might just burn the arena down. Utah & Dallas haven't been as awful for as long as Detroit has. That fanbase needs some reason to believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Plus Dallas did it because they had few resources and Utah did it because Ainge is in asset accumulation mode.

Neither would be the case if Detroit's kids started to pull a Houston. Detroit would own all of its picks but the one they owed us, so extinguishing their obligation to NY would actually free the Pistons up to make more moves than keeping that pick.

And...unlike Washington...they have been in asset accumulation mode for ages, now they're in 'hoping their kids can start to win games' mode.

they dont need to tank hard, just rest starters last few games if they are clearly out of the race like Dallas. They brought in a new GM and preached patience/not making short sighted moves. We will see how it goes next few years.

[cgf]

I've been wondering about a Dadiet + Payne + package, but I think at this point I'm curious to see where Sims is. He looked pretty solid last season and I won't be shocked if he takes the primary backup Center job from Achiuwa this year. At which point Kessler might not be that much of an upgrade.

Center is certainly the spot we are most likely to need depth this year, but we might be good if we get one of Mitch's 59+ game seasons, Achiuwa pickups where he left off, and Sims progresses. It could well be at forward where we need to bring someone like Kuzma in to backfill for some of Randle's creation if the Heat take him out again.

Since we have so few assets left, we should probably wait to see where we actually need to spend them before emptying the clip.

Yeah, I was thinking about Dadiet + Payne + package also and I also have some curiosity about Sims this year too. I'm less high on him as a player than you but I have always wanted to see the bigs with guards that are more natural distributors. I'm curious how guys like Mitch and Sims would look with someone Kolek that may actually find the bigs when rolling down the lane.

Based on last season and this off-season I feel like Thibs played Precious more out of necessity than actual desire. They lost a good chunk of their front rotation which forced Thibs to play him heavy minutes but even with Randle out, Bogey struggling and Mitch never being fully healthy Precious was out of the rotation by the start of the playoffs.

Precious did a fine job of eating up minutes when necessary and I loved his energy but he is a clunky fit with many of the lineups and the 1 year deal this offseason with him waving the no-trade clause makes it seem like the Knicks will be looking to include him in a deal this year. Sims depth may be needed especially with Mitch's injury history.

Pacome is an interesting prospect and I would be glad to watch him slowly develop but I don't see a window to playing time for him for many years behind OG/Nova. He just turned 19. The Knicks can be patient with him but he could also just become a depreciating asset that rarely touches the court.

As a Knicks' fan I would like to keep the deal centered around Pacome + Payne + Washington protected pick + maybe another possible 2nd(s) but I could understand why Utah may say no depending on how high they value Kessler or Pacome. I desperately want to hold onto the Detroit pick since it is the only pick the Knicks have for a while they may have some potential future value.

Precious' problem was that he couldn't shoot well enough to play the 4...especially not in lineups with Hart also out there. Thus his minutes were entirely dependent on RobinHart's health.

When Mitch and/or iHart were out, Precious got all the minutes he could handle. When both came back before the playoffs, Achiuwa fell out of the rotation, because both are just better than Achiuwa on the boards and as rim-protectors...even if they aren't as switchable...with the size to deal with the Embiid's the NBA.

But yeah, like I said in my edit, I'd probably do Dadiet + Payne + WSH FRP & a SRP or two if needed. Then if Mitch stays healthy / Sims takes another step and Miami takes Randle out again, we'd still have that Detroit FRP, Deuce, and Kessler/Sims to make a play for someone who could backfill for some Randle's creation.

[cgf]

Nah it will either be non lotto or 2nd imo. With those kinds of protection Detroit will pull a Utah/Dallas and tank to keep its pick.

If Detroit's kids finally start to put it together and win games only for the organization to pull the rug out from under them in order to keep a late lotto pick, that fanbase might just burn the arena down. Utah & Dallas haven't been as awful for as long as Detroit has. That fanbase needs some reason to believe there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Plus Dallas did it because they had few resources and Utah did it because Ainge is in asset accumulation mode.

Neither would be the case if Detroit's kids started to pull a Houston. Detroit would own all of its picks but the one they owed us, so extinguishing their obligation to NY would actually free the Pistons up to make more moves than keeping that pick.

And...unlike Washington...they have been in asset accumulation mode for ages, now they're in 'hoping their kids can start to win games' mode.

they dont need to tank hard, just rest starters last few games if they are clearly out of the race like Dallas. They brought in a new GM and preached patience/not making short sighted moves. We will see how it goes next few years.

If they are clearly out of the race and can tank for that pick then sure, that might happen*. But if they start to put it together like Houston has at any point over the next 3 years, the Play-in is very likely to be in reach for them.

I like your & Chicago's kids more than most, and think the Hawks will be pretty good now that they got rid of Murray and brought in a few more long defenders to stick around Trae & Bogey...but those 9th/10th seeds should be achievable.

*if they value yet another lotto pick over the flexibility that finally ending their obligation would give them

[R-DAWG]

A Dadiet for Kessler trade would be Utah trading a high floor prospect with 2 years of rookie control for a high ceiling prospect with 4 years of rookie control.

From the Knicks perspective, it's flipping a 2024 1st for a guy with NBA experience who can step in and be a rotation piece.

In theory, this kind of trade should make sense value wise. In reality, rookie scale players are like cars in the sense that they lose value once they go from pick to player and Ainge is very stubborn when it comes to how he values players (also Leon Rose has a track record of paying a premium and/or overpaying in most trades).

So if I'm the Knicks
1) Dadiet, Sims for Kessler is an easy yes
2) Dadiet, Sims + 1 or 2 2nds is a yes
3) Daidet, Sims + Was 1st (likely 2 high 2nds) is likely a yes but I have to think about it
4) Daidet, Sims + DET pick (i think 50-50 chance of conveying in the late lotto) - I'm on the fence about
5) Daidet + Sims + DET Pick + WAS Pick - likely pass

[cgf]

A Dadiet for Kessler trade would be Utah trading a high floor prospect with 2 years of rookie control for a high ceiling prospect with 4 years of rookie control.

From the Knicks perspective, it's flipping a 2024 1st for a guy with NBA experience who can step in and be a rotation piece.

In theory, this kind of trade should make sense value wise. In reality, rookie scale players are like cars in the sense that they lose value once they go from pick to player and Ainge is very stubborn when it comes to how he values players (also Leon Rose has a track record of paying a premium and/or overpaying in most trades).

So if I'm the Knicks
1) Dadiet, Sims for Kessler is an easy yes
2) Dadiet, Sims + 1 or 2 2nds is a yes
3) Daidet, Sims + Was 1st (likely 2 high 2nds) is likely a yes but I have to think about it
4) Daidet, Sims + DET pick (i think 50-50 chance of conveying in the late lotto) - I'm on the fence about
5) Daidet + Sims + DET Pick + WAS Pick - likely pass

Are you suggesting that the OG or Hart trades were overpays?

[BlazersBroncos]

I think let NYK keep Sims if they want.

Daidet + Payne + DET or WAS FRP [BUT - NYK adds full LP to both picks - EX DET is protected Top 13/11/9 - so in this scenario if the pick lands at 14, 12-14 or 10-14 the Knicks retain - a bit of added hedging for NYK).

[R-DAWG]

A Dadiet for Kessler trade would be Utah trading a high floor prospect with 2 years of rookie control for a high ceiling prospect with 4 years of rookie control.

From the Knicks perspective, it's flipping a 2024 1st for a guy with NBA experience who can step in and be a rotation piece.

In theory, this kind of trade should make sense value wise. In reality, rookie scale players are like cars in the sense that they lose value once they go from pick to player and Ainge is very stubborn when it comes to how he values players (also Leon Rose has a track record of paying a premium and/or overpaying in most trades).

So if I'm the Knicks
1) Dadiet, Sims for Kessler is an easy yes
2) Dadiet, Sims + 1 or 2 2nds is a yes
3) Daidet, Sims + Was 1st (likely 2 high 2nds) is likely a yes but I have to think about it
4) Daidet, Sims + DET pick (i think 50-50 chance of conveying in the late lotto) - I'm on the fence about
5) Daidet + Sims + DET Pick + WAS Pick - likely pass

Are you suggesting that the OG or Hart trades were overpays?

There is a difference between paying a premium and an overpay.

For Hart - He gave up his current 1st rd pick which projected in the 20's with lotto protections at a time when he owned all his own future 1's plus 4 other future 1's. That scenario is when it makes sense to give up a 1 for a guy on Hart's level, which is still a premium price, but reasonable under the circumstances.

OG - For context, I'm a Barrett fan even though OG is a better fit with our roster. I had no interest in paying Quickley what he ended up getting. I don't think the 2nd rd pick they gave up was necessary, but at the time with all the draft capital in hand, it didn't really matter. It's basically Barrett, Quickley was maybe worth a late 1st heading into RFA (although it easily could have been a pair of 2nds) and a high 2nd for the right to give OG a near max contract. The whole package is probably more of a premium than an overpay, but you can make the argument in either direction depending on how you value Barrett.

Honestly, pre Bridges trade, we were a team with tons of draft capital and a pretty open cap sheet going forward. Now we are a team with very limited draft assets (including 2nd rd picks) and a clogged up cap sheet.

In totality - if you told Knick fans when they decided not to go all in on Donovan Mithcell 24 months ago that they traded:

RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickly, 4 future unprotected 1sts, 2 high 2nds (DET 24, BK 25) plus the MIL protected 1st

And the return was Mikal Bridges and OG Anunoby basically on a max deal

We would not have signed up for that.