Top 24, under 24 in 24 - Sam Vecenie Game Theory Podcast - Scottie #10

[torsport]

Based off a combination of their current body and projected potential, Sam Vecenie's Game Theory Podcast guys have been ranking the best prospects under 24 in the NBA. If a player was born 2000 or later they were eligible.

RJ received an honorable mention. I think Sam had him at 25 or 26. TS% and shooting inconsistency (along with how bad Raps were) affected his ranking. IQ is 25 so didn't qualify (1999 baby).

Thoughts?

24. Reed Sheppard
23. Jonathan Kuminga
22. Dereck Lively
21. Jalen Johnson
20. Keegan Murray
19. Jalen Suggs
18. Darius Garland
17. Scoot Henderson
16. Amen Thompson
15. Evan Mobley
14. Alperin Sengun
13. Lamelo Ball
12. Franz Wagner
11. Cade Cunningham
10. Scottie Barnes
9. Jalen Williams (Sam had him ranked 4 overall!!)
8. Tyrese Maxey
7. Tyrese Haliburton
6. Brandon Miller
5. Paolo Banchero (TS is worse than Scottie - only ranking I really disagreed with)
4. Chet Holmgren
3. Zion Williamson
2. Anthony Edwards
1. Victor Wembanyama

[Gavin_TDThree]

I think Chet is a little high purely due to recency bias, same with Miller.

Vic at 1 is a no brainer, Edwards at 2 makes a ton of sense. Zion I struggle with. On paper I see the appeal but there's nothing tangible that's come from it.

I'd argue that Scottie should be right after Paolo and above Miller. Triple double threat, stocks, all-star, pretty intriguing.

Vic
Edwards
Haliburton
Maxey
Banchero
Barnes
Chet
Williamson
Williams
Miller

Quick top 10 without too much though

[MessiahUjiri]

Miller doesn’t deserve to be in the top 10.

Wemby and Edwards are 1 and 2.

Everything else is subjective.

[Gavin_TDThree]

Miller doesn’t deserve to be in the top 10.

Wemby and Edwards are 1 and 2.

Everything else is subjective.

Miller is one I'm on the fence with. Who would you say is definitely above him?

Ball or Sengun I can make the argument

[Thaddy]

Barnes is an all star and better player if you look at him as a whole. He should be a default top 3 with Wemby and Edwards.

[SharoneWright]

Bodes well for not picking up the super-max.

[Scizzup]

I think Chet is a little high purely due to recency bias, same with Miller.

Vic at 1 is a no brainer, Edwards at 2 makes a ton of sense. Zion I struggle with. On paper I see the appeal but there's nothing tangible that's come from it.

I'd argue that Scottie should be right after Paolo and above Miller. Triple double threat, stocks, all-star, pretty intriguing.

Vic
Edwards
Haliburton
Maxey
Banchero
Barnes
Chet
Williamson
Williams
Miller

Quick top 10 without too much though

Chet is probably too low if anything. Paolo and esp Miller (overrated). The reason Chet is not being talked as a generational talent is because of Wemby.

Chet just had a season better than any Barnes season. Now, we can say he is playing with an MVP candidate (true) but he just turned a near league average defense into top 5. Chet rates as a top 5 rim protector last year, he is tops in shot contest at the rim (doesn't foul much) and holds them to a low %. He does this while being a good play finisher on offense (62% TS).


Edit: I hope Scottie can get more dynamic on offense as he has a shot at being better than Chet then but right now he is worse than both Jalen Williams and Chet. Jalen for example can do everything Scottie does while being a very efficient self creator. Scottie should be over Brandon Miller though!

[Gavin_TDThree]

I think Chet is a little high purely due to recency bias, same with Miller.

Vic at 1 is a no brainer, Edwards at 2 makes a ton of sense. Zion I struggle with. On paper I see the appeal but there's nothing tangible that's come from it.

I'd argue that Scottie should be right after Paolo and above Miller. Triple double threat, stocks, all-star, pretty intriguing.

Vic
Edwards
Haliburton
Maxey
Banchero
Barnes
Chet
Williamson
Williams
Miller

Quick top 10 without too much though

Chet is probably too low if anything. Paolo and esp Miller (overrated). The reason Chet is not being talked as a generational talent that he likely is because of Wemby.

Chet just had a season better than any Barnes season. Now, we can say he is playing with an MVP candidate (true) but he just turned a near league average defense into top 5. Chet rates as a top 5 rim protector last year, he contests a lot of shots (doesn't foul much) and holds them to a low %.


Edit: I hope Scottie can get more dynamic on offense as he has a shot at being better than Chet then but right now he is worse than both Jalen Williams and Chet. Jalen for example can do everything Scottie does while being a very efficient self creator. Scottie should be over Brandon Miller though!

that's fair, I can definitely see the argument for Chet!

For me when it comes to Chet, my only question mark is with him being surrounded by so much talent already, does that allow him to be elite in his role due to lack of pressure. If Mobley and Chet switched teams would we look at either players differently due to team context?

[Scase]

I think this is how I would put it. With Miller and Hali being interchangeable. Honestly Scottie/Paolo/Maxey I think could all be swapped around as well.

10. Jalen Williams
9. Brandon Miller
8. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Scottie Barnes
6.Tyrese Maxey
5. Paolo Banchero
4. Zion Williamson
3. Chet Holmgren
2. Anthony Edwards
1. Victor Wembanyama

[Vampirate]

I think this is how I would put it. With Miller and Hali being interchangeable. Honestly Scottie/Paolo/Maxey I think could all be swapped around as well.

10. Jalen Williams
9. Brandon Miller
8. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Scottie Barnes
6.Tyrese Maxey
5. Paolo Banchero
4. Zion Williamson
3. Chet Holmgren
2. Anthony Edwards
1. Victor Wembanyama

I'm as high on Barnes as anyone, but Paoio right now is in a different class.

Barnes is the better passer easily, and the better rebounder, and defender.

The difference in scoring though is pretty massive from what we've seen of the 2 so far and Paolo showed up in the playoffs against a good defensive team.

I actually think Paolo can go as high as 3 on your list when you think about it.

[DreamTeam09]

I think Chet is a little high purely due to recency bias, same with Miller.

Vic at 1 is a no brainer, Edwards at 2 makes a ton of sense. Zion I struggle with. On paper I see the appeal but there's nothing tangible that's come from it.

I'd argue that Scottie should be right after Paolo and above Miller. Triple double threat, stocks, all-star, pretty intriguing.

Vic
Edwards
Haliburton
Maxey
Banchero
Barnes
Chet
Williamson
Williams
Miller

Quick top 10 without too much though

Chet is probably too low if anything. Paolo and esp Miller (overrated). The reason Chet is not being talked as a generational talent is because of Wemby.

Chet just had a season better than any Barnes season. Now, we can say he is playing with an MVP candidate (true) but he just turned a near league average defense into top 5. Chet rates as a top 5 rim protector last year, he is tops in shot contest at the rim (doesn't foul much) and holds them to a low %. He does this while being a good play finisher on offense (62% TS).


Edit: I hope Scottie can get more dynamic on offense as he has a shot at being better than Chet then but right now he is worse than both Jalen Williams and Chet. Jalen for example can do everything Scottie does while being a very efficient self creator. Scottie should be over Brandon Miller though!

Why is 16 7 2 n 2 better than 19 8 6 1 n 1 ?

[WiggOuts]

People underrate Paolo, he's better than Scottie. Also Haliburton should be higher, he's better than Maxey(Vecenie got that right). Scoot seems high, Alpo seems too low and wow for B Miller...Zion is the wild card, he could put up a season and be #1/2 on this list, I think this is his year

[Scizzup]

I think Chet is a little high purely due to recency bias, same with Miller.

Vic at 1 is a no brainer, Edwards at 2 makes a ton of sense. Zion I struggle with. On paper I see the appeal but there's nothing tangible that's come from it.

I'd argue that Scottie should be right after Paolo and above Miller. Triple double threat, stocks, all-star, pretty intriguing.

Vic
Edwards
Haliburton
Maxey
Banchero
Barnes
Chet
Williamson
Williams
Miller

Quick top 10 without too much though

Chet is probably too low if anything. Paolo and esp Miller (overrated). The reason Chet is not being talked as a generational talent that he likely is because of Wemby.

Chet just had a season better than any Barnes season. Now, we can say he is playing with an MVP candidate (true) but he just turned a near league average defense into top 5. Chet rates as a top 5 rim protector last year, he contests a lot of shots (doesn't foul much) and holds them to a low %.


Edit: I hope Scottie can get more dynamic on offense as he has a shot at being better than Chet then but right now he is worse than both Jalen Williams and Chet. Jalen for example can do everything Scottie does while being a very efficient self creator. Scottie should be over Brandon Miller though!

that's fair, I can definitely see the argument for Chet!

For me when it comes to Chet, my only question mark is with him being surrounded by so much talent already, does that allow him to be elite in his role due to lack of pressure. If Mobley and Chet switched teams would we look at either players differently due to team context?

It matters but Chet is better than Mobley and OKC would be worse if they switched. Chet is a better offensive player. Chet is a better shooter (provides spacing for his slashers) and stays within his scoring pocket which keeps him efficient. He just is not a volume scorer.

Chet is not going to be the best offensive player on a great team but his value comes on defense. He has a shot at perennial DPOY candidate. Mobley is also a great defender but Chet being a better rim protector is going to make him more impactful than stepping out on perimeter like Mobley does. There is a chance both Wemby and Chet are the two most impactful defenders as of next season.

I would have had the top 4 as this but 2-4 could be switched.

Wemby
Ant ( Youth progression and athleticism).
Chet
Zion (injuries concern)

[Scase]

I think this is how I would put it. With Miller and Hali being interchangeable. Honestly Scottie/Paolo/Maxey I think could all be swapped around as well.

10. Jalen Williams
9. Brandon Miller
8. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Scottie Barnes
6.Tyrese Maxey
5. Paolo Banchero
4. Zion Williamson
3. Chet Holmgren
2. Anthony Edwards
1. Victor Wembanyama

I'm as high on Barnes as anyone, but Paoio right now is in a different class.

Barnes is the better passer easily, and the better rebounder, and defender.

The difference in scoring though is pretty massive from what we've seen of the 2 so far and Paolo showed up in the playoffs against a good defensive team.

I actually think Paolo can go as high as 3 on your list when you think about it.

I'm not super sold on Paolo as being well above Scottie, but his scoring is definitely much much better. I find them to be on the same footing tbh, Scotties defence is better than Paolos to the same level that his offence is better than Scotties. So a bit of a wash, but he is younger so who knows. Scottie is much more efficient, but Paolo has a lot more scoring ability.

Long term I think I still stick with Scottie as he has more intangibles and he has shown to bust his ass over the summers, but I don't know enough about Paolos game changing after an off season, maybe they are the same.

[OakleyDokely]

It's not a bad list, but I'm not sure on what planet Amen Thompson and Scoot are better young players than Garland.

[Syd-TK3]

Brandon Miller at 6 is a joke everything else is understandable

[Scizzup]

I think this is how I would put it. With Miller and Hali being interchangeable. Honestly Scottie/Paolo/Maxey I think could all be swapped around as well.

10. Jalen Williams
9. Brandon Miller
8. Tyrese Haliburton
7. Scottie Barnes
6.Tyrese Maxey
5. Paolo Banchero
4. Zion Williamson
3. Chet Holmgren
2. Anthony Edwards
1. Victor Wembanyama

I'm as high on Barnes as anyone, but Paoio right now is in a different class.

Barnes is the better passer easily, and the better rebounder, and defender.

The difference in scoring though is pretty massive from what we've seen of the 2 so far and Paolo showed up in the playoffs against a good defensive team.

I actually think Paolo can go as high as 3 on your list when you think about it.

I'm not super sold on Paolo as being well above Scottie, but his scoring is definitely much much better. I find them to be on the same footing tbh, Scotties defence is better than Paolos to the same level that his offence is better than Scotties. So a bit of a wash, but he is younger so who knows. Scottie is much more efficient, but Paolo has a lot more scoring ability.

Long term I think I still stick with Scottie as he has more intangibles and he has shown to bust his ass over the summers, but I don't know enough about Paolos game changing after an off season, maybe they are the same.

Scottie/Paolo/Jdub are all same tier. Jdub is currently better than both. Scottie road to being great is basically forward version of Lowry (this is a star player). Jalen Williams can be a Jimmy Butler type player if he keeps improving. Paolo size and ball handling should favor him but he doesn't live at the rim like you would expect or want. This is what hurts his efficiency as he is not a good shooter. He is also worst defender of them.

Scottie is a good passer (nothing special) but he is the worst playmaker of the bunch. He can be the best defender of the group though (which is the continual progression one should hope to see).

[Syd-TK3]

I'm as high on Barnes as anyone, but Paoio right now is in a different class.

Barnes is the better passer easily, and the better rebounder, and defender.

The difference in scoring though is pretty massive from what we've seen of the 2 so far and Paolo showed up in the playoffs against a good defensive team.

I actually think Paolo can go as high as 3 on your list when you think about it.

I'm not super sold on Paolo as being well above Scottie, but his scoring is definitely much much better. I find them to be on the same footing tbh, Scotties defence is better than Paolos to the same level that his offence is better than Scotties. So a bit of a wash, but he is younger so who knows. Scottie is much more efficient, but Paolo has a lot more scoring ability.

Long term I think I still stick with Scottie as he has more intangibles and he has shown to bust his ass over the summers, but I don't know enough about Paolos game changing after an off season, maybe they are the same.

Scottie/Paolo/Jdub are all same tier. Jdub is currently better than both. Scottie road to being great is basically forward version of Lowry (this is a star player). Jalen Williams can be a Jimmy Butler type player if he keeps improving. Paolo size and ball handling should favor him but he doesn't live at the rim like you would expect or want. This is what hurts his efficiency as he is not a good shooter. He is also worst defender of them.

Scottie is a good passer (nothing special) but he is the worst playmaker of the bunch. He can be the best defender of the group though (which is the continual progression one should hope to see).

Scottie the worst playmaker of the bunch???

[DreamTeam09]

I'm as high on Barnes as anyone, but Paoio right now is in a different class.

Barnes is the better passer easily, and the better rebounder, and defender.

The difference in scoring though is pretty massive from what we've seen of the 2 so far and Paolo showed up in the playoffs against a good defensive team.

I actually think Paolo can go as high as 3 on your list when you think about it.

I'm not super sold on Paolo as being well above Scottie, but his scoring is definitely much much better. I find them to be on the same footing tbh, Scotties defence is better than Paolos to the same level that his offence is better than Scotties. So a bit of a wash, but he is younger so who knows. Scottie is much more efficient, but Paolo has a lot more scoring ability.

Long term I think I still stick with Scottie as he has more intangibles and he has shown to bust his ass over the summers, but I don't know enough about Paolos game changing after an off season, maybe they are the same.

Scottie/Paolo/Jdub are all same tier. Jdub is currently better than both. Scottie road to being great is basically forward version of Lowry (this is a star player). Jalen Williams can be a Jimmy Butler type player if he keeps improving. Paolo size and ball handling should favor him but he doesn't live at the rim like you would expect or want. This is what hurts his efficiency as he is not a good shooter. He is also worst defender of them.

Scottie is a good passer (nothing special) but he is the worst playmaker of the bunch. He can be the best defender of the group though (which is the continual progression one should hope to see).

Y'all just gonna let him get away with just saying non-sense ? How is he the worst play maker between the 3 and neither of them have hit Barnes Ast #s

[CPT]

Is this potential, right now, or some kind of trade value ranking? I lean most toward potential/value, but there seem to be counterexamples to each one.

Chet is the most interesting to me. I keep coming up with "both teams say no" trades for him.

Zion is also fairly interesting, as I think you either have to have him about as high as he is or not on the list at all. I would think there's a lot of "both teams say no" trades with him as well, but maybe New Orleans would be fine cashing in on a player with a slightly lower ceiling that is more reliable.

It feels like Scottie should be a bit higher, but this is probably a fairly accurate read of the leaguewide opinion about him.