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FREE AGENCY 2024

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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#381 » by Wizenheimer » Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:16 pm

Pattycakes wrote:According to this board our roster is worthless, and Olshey is the worst gm of all time.


ftfy

Pattycakes wrote:Interesting angle, I’ll take sitting back patiently for $1000


are you serious?

* it's been 25 YEARS...a quarter of a century for chrissakes....since Portland has won a single game in the conference finals.

* It's been 34 years since the Blazers played in the finals

* since the Blazers last appeared in the NBA finals, 24 different teams have played in those finals. Portland is one of 6 teams that haven't been in the finals in the last 34 years. 6 teams and Portland is one of them

* if you count this coming season, Portland has had one single all-star player in a decade...and they failed him miserably by practicing the very patience you're advocating, then traded him away

the Blazers are a dumpster fire on every level and you're saying let is burn
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#382 » by BlazersBroncos » Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:23 pm

Pattycakes wrote:According to this board our roster is worthless, and cronin is the worst gm of all time.

Interesting angle, I’ll take sitting back patiently for $1000


I mean - it is worthless. We sucked last year with these same vets and are now entering what is supposedly another rebuild year while having 90M tied up in Grant / Ayton / Simons - that is 64% of our salary cap tied up in a trio that isnt even bubble worthy.

We have no clear cut blue chip prospects. Scoot had one of the most underwhelming-compared-to-hype rookie seasons in recent NBA history. Sharpe is up and down even when healthy. The non-blue-chip youth is meh at best and outside Camara has really shown nothing.

When talking rebuild - lets look at OKC. I think its pretty clear that we dont even have a guy that is close to the 3rd best young talent in OKC (Jalen - who comes after SGA / Chet). We are nowhere close to being a up-and-coming young team. We are not close to being a scrappy late seed / blubble team. We are the Wizards of the West.

I am not trying to be pessimistic. I will still watch this team, but its not easy to get excited.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#383 » by JasonStern » Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:34 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
JasonStern wrote:The idea that Simons is going to return some treasure trove of picks and prospects that will turn the franchise around is just that - a dream.


that's impressive....stuffing a straw man with BS and pretending that's what people are saying so you can argue against a phantom. You are the only one who has said anything remotely like that

I have not once seen anybody say Simons would get traded for a treasure trove of picks and prospects. And it's insane to suggest people are saying trading Simons would turn the franchise around. Mostly, people are suggesting a 1st round pick, quite possibly lottery protected, maybe a young unproven prospect, or maybe not, and some salary relief. And of course, removing the option from Cronin for bidding against himself in a Simons extension and giving him a 40M/year deal

yeah, there's a lot of addition by subtraction behind what people are arguing; and it's justified. There's also the reality that many of us don't believe Portland would be losing anything special by trading Simons and that he's the opposite of a rebuilding asset. But he does fit perfectly into Portland's inability to stop straddling fences


I don't think you know what a straw man argument is.

Check all of the proposed Simons trades by various posters to see what they think Simons would return. I completely agree that you said we should trade a 22.6ppg/5.5apg/38.5% 3 point shooter on a bad team and take on $20M+ in dead salary for a late 1st round pick. That seems like incredibly poor asset management unless he was demanding out. The odds of some late 1st landing a player as good as Simons is unlikely.

Again, riding his contract out and letting him walk is still an option. He only has 2 seasons left. At which point, we didn't blow two seasons of a scoring guard that at least makes games more competitive. I know you have to be masochistic to be a Blazers fan. But the amount of people that want to go 0-82 is overwhelming.

But check all of the other trade propositions that were made by other posters. Anthony Black - a rookie contract recent lottery pick and a first, two firsts and some veteran player that doesn't fit, etc. Most trade proposals are highly unrealistic. Obtaining Deni required not just Brogdon (who was arguably our best player last season) but a lottery pick.

Simons isn't going to get $40m/season on his next contract unless he goes nuclear, at which point trading him would be foolish. At 25, he isn't even in his prime yet. And while I feel he is overpaid, he's not based on the going market. Your argument that Simons is some grizzled veteran is more of a straw man argument that I have made. Age wise, he fits a rebuild that is already three years in development. And Blazer fans are delusional when they think we sucked for two of those years wasting Dame to land lottery picks as not part of a rebuild.

Any lineup with Simons is going to have a negative +/- because this team lacks talent, thus three consecutive losing seasons. Playing Scoot and Sharpe massive minutes isn't the magic recipe for making them become all-star talent. Them putting time in the gym with great trainers is.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#384 » by JasonStern » Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:47 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Pattycakes wrote:According to this board our roster is worthless, and Olshey is the worst gm of all time.


ftfy


Unless you count John Nash trying to resurrect the Jail Blazers, I don't know how this is up for debate. There have been at least two posts over the last 5 years on the General Board from OTHER TEAMS asking "Is Neil Olshey the worst GM of all time?". And just like I feel that LeBron is the GOAT due to his longevity, Olshey wins WOAT (worst of all-time) due to his longevity. Other GMs had bad moves, but they were usually fired for them. Olshey wasn't even fired for his massive under performance, which shows you how indifferent ownership is. And the future 1st owed to Chicago, an Olshey move, still limits what this team can do trade-wise.

Wizenheimer wrote:* it's been 25 YEARS...a quarter of a century for chrissakes....since Portland has won a single game in the conference finals.

* It's been 34 years since the Blazers played in the finals


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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#385 » by Norm2953 » Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:14 pm

Perhaps if we had a competent head coach, things would be a bit better.

There is enough talent on the roster for this team to a mediocre team, that wins 30-35 wins.
So much depends on Scoot/Sharpe for Sharpe has to seize the starting SG position from Simons.
Scoot as the only pure PG on the roster has less competition but he's got to get to where he is
comfortable on the court.

Focusing on Ant, Grant and Ayton so much isn't helpful for they are the vet support players for the
guys whom the franchise feels are their long term core. Team still has to move Grant who is signed
for 4 more years too long but at least Ayton/Simons by next summer will be expiring contracts
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#386 » by BlazersBroncos » Sat Aug 24, 2024 6:16 pm

* since the Blazers last appeared in the NBA finals, 24 different teams have played in those finals. Portland is one of 6 teams that haven't been in the finals in the last 34 years. 6 teams and Portland is one of them


This may be the most depressing Blazers fact I have ever read.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#387 » by dckingsfan » Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:49 pm

Norm2953 wrote:Perhaps if we had a competent head coach, things would be a bit better.

There is enough talent on the roster for this team to a mediocre team, that wins 30-35 wins. So much depends on Scoot/Sharpe for Sharpe has to seize the starting SG position from Simons. Scoot as the only pure PG on the roster has less competition but he's got to get to where he is comfortable on the court.

Focusing on Ant, Grant and Ayton so much isn't helpful for they are the vet support players for the guys whom the franchise feels are their long term core. Team still has to move Grant who is signed for 4 more years too long but at least Ayton/Simons by next summer will be expiring contracts

I think there are a couple of things here, I guess they have all been said, more or less.

I don't think that the next two years should be about wins, rather about player development. Which I guess gets to your point to not focus on those three players.

The other thing is you want to showcase those players to find out if they are part of the core in 3-years or if they should be traded (I guess that isn't a question with regards to Grant). But this is a bit tricky because you need a buyer if you are a seller.

So yes, develop the younger players. Take the losses that go with that. Trade the older players or those that you don't see fitting your roadmap (if you can).

Rinse/repeat over the next few years.

This is what you are saying?
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#388 » by Walton1one » Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:16 am

We do have a potential blue chip prospect, his name is Scoot Henderson. Probably our best chance of the players on the roster
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#389 » by m0ng0 » Sun Aug 25, 2024 3:22 pm

Walton1one wrote:We do have a potential blue chip prospect, his name is Scoot Henderson. Probably our best chance of the players on the roster


Fingers crossed
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#390 » by dckingsfan » Sun Aug 25, 2024 5:26 pm

m0ng0 wrote:
Walton1one wrote:We do have a potential blue chip prospect, his name is Scoot Henderson. Probably our best chance of the players on the roster

Fingers crossed

In addition, you have 9 players under 24. If 1 other (or two) breakout you are in a good position (assuming you hit on future draft picks).

Code: Select all

Rayan Rupert      20
Donovan Clingan   20
Scoot Henderson   20
Shaedon Sharpe    21
Jabari Walker     22
Deni Avdija       23
Kris Murray       24
Toumani Camara    24
Henri Drell       24


With the assumption that 2 or 3 become solid rotational starters on a good team.

I am pretty hopeful on Clingan. You want your C to be your defensive anchor. I think he could be that guy. I think Avdija can be a glue guy two-way player.

If Scoot breaks out, then you are in good position (if and especially if) you draft well in '25 & '26. And if any of the others breakout - well, there you have it.

At the same time, if you can move the older players for assets - well, so much the better.

The real question is, "does this FO have it in them"?
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#391 » by Walton1one » Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:39 pm

Henri Drell may not even be in POR a month or so from now

I don't hold out much hope for Walker\Murray, being any more than they already are, replacement-level bench players

Camara looks like he could be a good bench sub, defense some scoring, 8th/9th man?

Avdija\Clingan, I think both could be good starting-level players on a playoff-contending team.

Rupert, still a project, 2? 3? years out IF he makes it, and even if he does, looks to be a defensive-oriented bench sub, like Camara 8th/9th man type

That leaves Sharpe & Scoot. Sharpe has the superior athletic gifts IMO, but Scoot seems to have the superior internal drive, b\t the two, I think that tends to win out. I think Sharpe can be a good starting-level SG, overall solid but unpredictable, some "wow" nights followed by some lackluster nights.

Scoot to me looks like his ceiling could be an All-Star\fringe type PG, someone like DeAaron Fox\Darius Garland
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#392 » by Norm2953 » Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:25 pm

Walton1one wrote:We do have a potential blue chip prospect, his name is Scoot Henderson. Probably our best chance of the players on the roster


Scoot seems to be a guy who really wants to prove he's worthy of being the third pick in a draft.

Whether he has the talent to become a blue chip player remains to be seen but he's going to be the
best player Scoot Henderson is going to be.

I keep focusing on Sharpe. He's got the talent to be a blue chip player and has every incentive to have
a break out season for he's going to be eligible for an extension. He's got to seize the SG spot from
Simons for the team is going to be better up front with Grant, Camara, Deni along with Ayton, Clingan and
hopefully a healthy TL.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#393 » by JasonStern » Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:37 am

Norm2953 wrote:Focusing on Ant, Grant and Ayton so much isn't helpful for they are the vet support players for the
guys whom the franchise feels are their long term core.


Again, Simons is 25. Ayton is 26. I get that Grant should be moved and fully support it. But the idea that Simons and Ayton are seasoned veterans when they haven't entered their prime only makes sense if you plan this to be a prolonged rebuild (reminder - we've already spent 3 years rebuilding), or if you think Portland can land some elite player in free agency if they just had the cap space.

Insert some dick sucking joke because, despite constantly reiterating this fact, being the best player on a bad team doesn't guarantee that you're a good player or highly valued by other teams. And trading away the proven talent we have for a late 1st and a 5% chance of getting a player as good as what Portland would trade is not conductive of winning basketball. Just getting Deni cost Portland Brogdon and a lottery pick. Remember when we traded Zach Randolph and only got back Channing Frye and eating Steve Francis' contract? I know it only takes one desperate GM to fleece a trade. But Cronin hasn't shown any adeptness on that front.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#394 » by PDXKnight » Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:08 am

JasonStern wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Focusing on Ant, Grant and Ayton so much isn't helpful for they are the vet support players for the
guys whom the franchise feels are their long term core.


Again, Simons is 25. Ayton is 26. I get that Grant should be moved and fully support it. But the idea that Simons and Ayton are seasoned veterans when they haven't entered their prime only makes sense if you plan this to be a prolonged rebuild (reminder - we've already spent 3 years rebuilding), or if you think Portland can land some elite player in free agency if they just had the cap space.

Insert some dick sucking joke because, despite constantly reiterating this fact, being the best player on a bad team doesn't guarantee that you're a good player or highly valued by other teams. And trading away the proven talent we have for a late 1st and a 5% chance of getting a player as good as what Portland would trade is not conductive of winning basketball. Just getting Deni cost Portland Brogdon and a lottery pick. Remember when we traded Zach Randolph and only got back Channing Frye and eating Steve Francis' contract? I know it only takes one desperate GM to fleece a trade. But Cronin hasn't shown any adeptness on that front.


I liked the z bo trade for where Portland was. It opened up pt for lamarcus who might not have become the player he did without those minutes. Or worse he might have demanded out and been our next Jermaine O'Neal give away
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#395 » by JasonStern » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:19 pm

PDXKnight wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:Focusing on Ant, Grant and Ayton so much isn't helpful for they are the vet support players for the
guys whom the franchise feels are their long term core.


Again, Simons is 25. Ayton is 26. I get that Grant should be moved and fully support it. But the idea that Simons and Ayton are seasoned veterans when they haven't entered their prime only makes sense if you plan this to be a prolonged rebuild (reminder - we've already spent 3 years rebuilding), or if you think Portland can land some elite player in free agency if they just had the cap space.

Insert some dick sucking joke because, despite constantly reiterating this fact, being the best player on a bad team doesn't guarantee that you're a good player or highly valued by other teams. And trading away the proven talent we have for a late 1st and a 5% chance of getting a player as good as what Portland would trade is not conductive of winning basketball. Just getting Deni cost Portland Brogdon and a lottery pick. Remember when we traded Zach Randolph and only got back Channing Frye and eating Steve Francis' contract? I know it only takes one desperate GM to fleece a trade. But Cronin hasn't shown any adeptness on that front.


I liked the z bo trade for where Portland was. It opened up pt for lamarcus who might not have become the player he did without those minutes. Or worse he might have demanded out and been our next Jermaine O'Neal give away


ZBo should have returned David Lee if we were taking on dead salary. Or a protected 1st if Frye was the centerpiece. At least a future pick swap. Cancer or not, he was a 23.6pgg/10.1rbg power forward. Frye was a 9.5ppg/5.5rpg F/C. Fine if the Blazers were dumping salary instead of taking on dead salary. And I'm not going to fight any "addition by subtraction" argument. Just pointing out that the Blazers sold incredibly low.

In before the obligatory "Jason sucks ZBo's balls" because I thought a 2x all-star and 1 time 3rd all-NBA player was worth more in a trade than Channing Frye and dead salary.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#396 » by PDXKnight » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:34 pm

JasonStern wrote:
PDXKnight wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
Again, Simons is 25. Ayton is 26. I get that Grant should be moved and fully support it. But the idea that Simons and Ayton are seasoned veterans when they haven't entered their prime only makes sense if you plan this to be a prolonged rebuild (reminder - we've already spent 3 years rebuilding), or if you think Portland can land some elite player in free agency if they just had the cap space.

Insert some dick sucking joke because, despite constantly reiterating this fact, being the best player on a bad team doesn't guarantee that you're a good player or highly valued by other teams. And trading away the proven talent we have for a late 1st and a 5% chance of getting a player as good as what Portland would trade is not conductive of winning basketball. Just getting Deni cost Portland Brogdon and a lottery pick. Remember when we traded Zach Randolph and only got back Channing Frye and eating Steve Francis' contract? I know it only takes one desperate GM to fleece a trade. But Cronin hasn't shown any adeptness on that front.


I liked the z bo trade for where Portland was. It opened up pt for lamarcus who might not have become the player he did without those minutes. Or worse he might have demanded out and been our next Jermaine O'Neal give away


ZBo should have returned David Lee if we were taking on dead salary. Or a protected 1st if Frye was the centerpiece. At least a future pick swap. Cancer or not, he was a 23.6pgg/10.1rbg power forward. Frye was a 9.5ppg/5.5rpg F/C. Fine if the Blazers were dumping salary instead of taking on dead salary. And I'm not going to fight any "addition by subtraction" argument. Just pointing out that the Blazers sold incredibly low.

In before the obligatory "Jason sucks ZBo's balls" because I thought a 2x all-star and 1 time 3rd all-NBA player was worth more in a trade than Channing Frye and dead salary.


Z bo had negative value around the league. If we wanted "fair value" we would've waited it out. Bu5 I'd contend much like Jerami Grant he hindered the development of other players on the roster who we needed to evaluate more throughly ie roy Lama and Oden. Yes 2 had injury issues eventually but the reasoning made sense at the time
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#397 » by PDXKnight » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:35 pm

JasonStern wrote:
PDXKnight wrote:
JasonStern wrote:
Again, Simons is 25. Ayton is 26. I get that Grant should be moved and fully support it. But the idea that Simons and Ayton are seasoned veterans when they haven't entered their prime only makes sense if you plan this to be a prolonged rebuild (reminder - we've already spent 3 years rebuilding), or if you think Portland can land some elite player in free agency if they just had the cap space.

Insert some dick sucking joke because, despite constantly reiterating this fact, being the best player on a bad team doesn't guarantee that you're a good player or highly valued by other teams. And trading away the proven talent we have for a late 1st and a 5% chance of getting a player as good as what Portland would trade is not conductive of winning basketball. Just getting Deni cost Portland Brogdon and a lottery pick. Remember when we traded Zach Randolph and only got back Channing Frye and eating Steve Francis' contract? I know it only takes one desperate GM to fleece a trade. But Cronin hasn't shown any adeptness on that front.


I liked the z bo trade for where Portland was. It opened up pt for lamarcus who might not have become the player he did without those minutes. Or worse he might have demanded out and been our next Jermaine O'Neal give away


ZBo should have returned David Lee if we were taking on dead salary. Or a protected 1st if Frye was the centerpiece. At least a future pick swap. Cancer or not, he was a 23.6pgg/10.1rbg power forward. Frye was a 9.5ppg/5.5rpg F/C. Fine if the Blazers were dumping salary instead of taking on dead salary. And I'm not going to fight any "addition by subtraction" argument. Just pointing out that the Blazers sold incredibly low.

In before the obligatory "Jason sucks ZBo's balls" because I thought a 2x all-star and 1 time 3rd all-NBA player was worth more in a trade than Channing Frye and dead salary.


Z bo had negative value around the league. If we wanted "fair value" we would've waited it out. Bu5 I'd contend much like Jerami Grant he hindered the development of other players on the roster who we needed to evaluate more throughly ie roy Lama and Oden. Yes 2 had injury issues eventually but the reasoning made sense at the time
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#398 » by Walton1one » Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:55 pm

I completely agree that you said we should trade a 22.6ppg/5.5apg/38.5% 3-point shooter on a bad team and take on $20M+ in dead salary for a late 1st round pick. That seems like incredibly poor asset management unless he was demanding out. The odds of some late 1st landing a player as good as Simons is unlikely.


There is more to asset mgmt than holding onto a player that clearly is not a part of your long-term plan because you are afraid of what the return could be. Any GM that does that should not be a GM for long. As time goes on this appears to be Cronin's Achilles heel, his reluctance to make bold moves. He only seems to make a deal when he absolutely must (Dame trade request, Brogdon FA\payroll). Dead salary often comes attached to draft capital, the more you have, the more options you have, the more chances to improve your team. Simons is not improving this team, in fact the only way he will is when he is traded.

Again, riding his contract out and letting him walk is still an option. He only has 2 seasons left. At which point, we didn't blow two seasons of a scoring guard that at least makes games more competitive. I know you have to be masochistic to be a Blazers fan. But the amount of people that want to go 0-82 is overwhelming


Now THIS is bad asset management, letting a player walk for nothing in return, or waiting too long and only getting back a minimal return because your asset has been depreciated. All for what? To be a few games more competitive? They won 21 games last year, if Simons is gone, they will win close to that without him OR Grant on the team. 0-82 is a bit hyperbolic don’t you think?

In 2 years, Simons will have been in POR for 8 years, 8 years of losing. If you think he is going to gleefully sign back up for more that is entirely unrealistic. Also, he isn't even WORTH the salary he is getting now, let alone a raise if he did resign (and only possible if Cronin overpaid him vs. the market like he did with Grant, multiple reasons why that is a bad idea given new CBA).

Simons is a glorified 6th man, who only plays on one side of the ball and has SIGNIFICANT deficiencies on the defensive end. How much is a good 6th man worth? Malik Monk is one of the better ones and he just signed for $19mil\year, and you think Simons is worth $25/$30?

At 25, he isn't even in his prime yet. And while I feel he is overpaid, he's not based on the going market. Your argument that Simons is some grizzled veteran is more of a straw man argument that I have made. Age wise, he fits a rebuild that is already three years in development


Not in his prime? He is going into his SEVENTH year, I think there is more than enough sample size to have an educated assessment of who he is as a player, and while it could be useful to a playoff\play in team, it is 100% not useful for POR. Not when you are losing 50+ games a year & getting blown out by 60pts (in a game he played in).

While his age (25) could be on the top end of fitting with the youth on this roster, the fact is his playstyle\fit with Scoot absolutely does not fit thus the reason he must go.

I don't get the defense of Simons, he is a decent offensive player, but the team loses any benefit of that b\c of his horrible defense. He is suited to be a 6th man, but he is overpaid. He will likely never accept playing behind Scoot\Sharpe, which is where he 100% should be playing right now.
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#399 » by m0ng0 » Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:24 pm

Maybe pick a new team? It might help your mental state? Find one you can say anything good about?
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Re: FREE AGENCY 2024 

Post#400 » by dunlop212 » Fri Aug 30, 2024 12:15 am

* it's been 25 YEARS...a quarter of a century for chrissakes....since Portland has won a single game in the conference finals.

In all fairness, PDX had arguably the best team in the league in for most of the 2008-2009. IIRC they had the highest point differential in the league. That team started Roy, LMA, Batum, and Oden. Oden was not a subtle player; he was a frankenstein monster that year (I think it was his only year playing a significant number of games). But he got injured in February and PDX was a first-round exit in the playoffs.

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