bpcox05 wrote:Andre Roberstan wrote:bpcox05 wrote:As a Kings fan, I agree with this assessment. I think some of us were taking exception with a poster saying he plays 0 defense which is obviously incorrect.
I agree with the idea that we need more size & length to help with weakside shot blocking but I wouldn’t go looking for a C to solve this issue (thus pushing Sabonis to PF).
I’ve said it multiple times but I’ll say it again here. Ideally, you have a SF and PF who are…
- above average size-wise/length-wise for their position
- athletic for their position
- good defenders for their position
- decent/solid rim protectors
- good floor spacers
I think Keegan Murray at SF fits this perfectly but if you’re asking him to play PF, you’re now falling short in the size/length department. Ideally, you’d have a guy like Isaac, J. Jackson Jr., Eason, Anunoby, Finney-Smith, J. Johnson, etc. that you could play at PF to give you another guy who has good size/length at PF who can help with some of the rim protection. On a somewhat side note, Carter could give us another solid rim protector from the SG spot considering his hops, length, and instincts (he just needs to prove he can be a good floor spacer to have a chance at taking Ellis’ starting spot).
I'd agree with this; if you have a PF who is a good rim protector, it should be fine. In fact, given Sabonis's speed and stoutness in the post, defense would probably be very good.
I would note, though, that rim protection gets less and less impactful the further up the position ladder you go, as guys just spend less time near thee basket. Doesn't really solve the issue of the rotations needing to be on point unless you have a PF like (as you mentioned) JJJ; could leave him lurking on the weak side, pre-switch, have him defend PnR and Sabonis defend off-ball actions ... depending on what the offense throws at you you have a lot more options.
PF vs. C is an irrelevant question to me. These days there are two kinds of PFs: SF/PFs and PF/Cs. You can play two PF/Cs together if one can shoot and they have good foot speed. You noted several guys that would work well there. "Moving a guy to PF" is often semantics. Who plays PF and who plays C in OKC? in Boston? Doesn't really matter.
Agree that rim protection is less and less impactful as you move down the positional ladder, but again, we’re talking about how do we complement Sabonis (who is lacking in this defensive attribute). Having an elite rim protector at PF (like Isaac or Jackson Jr.) would be nice but the next best thing would be to have 4 solid/good defenders at the 1-4 and multiple solid/good rim protectors. I think, for example, a starting 5 of Fox - Ellis/Carter - Murray - DFS - Sabonis could be a really good defensive team. That’s 4 solid/good defenders to help prevent penetration and 3 solid rim protectors in Ellis/Carter, Murray, and DFS who can help contest at the rim on rotations and/or on the weakside.
The only issue with that 5 man lineup is that I don’t think it has the offensive talent to become a true contender. Our only chance would be to have Murray or Carter develop into a star/2nd option while we maintain that defense.
As for putting a 5 next to Sabonis, I’m not a big fan of Sabonis’ foot speed at the 4. But I did want to ask you your thoughts on the Sabonis/Turner pairing? Reading between the lines, it seems like you’d find that pairing to be ideal for a team built around Sabonis yet it didn’t seem to workout. What’s your take there?
First of all, great back and forth from both you. I agree with most everything.
This is kinda where I land as well. The only thing I reject from Andre Roberson's excellent post is this idea that the missing piece HAS to be this great rim protector. To respond to this:
When you have a guy who can't bother shots on the back side, it puts a lot more pressure on the other rotations (that Kings Film Room video alludes to it as well). The low man has to be absolutely on point. You have a lot more X outs to the perimeter when a rotation fails. The Thunder ran into this last year; running smaller guys at C means your rotations have to be perfect. Even with great defensive personnel (which both the Thunder and the Kings have), you can't be perfect all the time. As the IRA said after they tried to bomb Margaret Thatcher, "Today we were unlucky, but remember we have only to be lucky once, you will have to be lucky always." When the defense has to be perfect, it will fail sooner or later. Usually at the end of games, or in high-pressure situations, or when pressed harder in the playoffs by teams that have time to game plan.
I agree with this take, and as currently constructed, I agree that it's impossible to maintain that perfect, crisp rotation for long enough to build a championship-level defense.
What I disagree with is that you inevitably need the help to come from more rim protection. I think the current scheme can work with simply another high level big wing defender at the other forward spot. They just need more composite high level defending size is how I look at it. If the Kings had an Anunoby at their other forward spot (obviously not an option but just for the sake of making the point), that's not necessarily a "rim protector" by the conventional definition, but the increase in size allows you to not have to be quite so razor sharp in rotations all the time.
I guess that's where I land. If the Kings can apply ball pressure 1-4, and have decent size at the 3 and 4, I think Sabonis at C is workable. I think to the point of the rest of your post, there are enough things he does well to where it's not some impossible task. But you do need to base both scheme and personnel on his weaknesses.
But I don't think that necessarily means the mythical rim protecting floor spacer. To the point of others in here, I almost think a player like that, who would essentially make Sabonis a defensive PF is not so ideal, as I think the difference in defensive footspeed required to play PF and C is pretty huge now. It would go from a strength to a weakness for him. I believe his most ideal position defensively is as an at-the-level C. The Kings don't have the personnel for longterm success with him there as currently constructed, but I don't think it's impossible task.
