Rewatched 04 finals

[TurboTitan]

I was only 6 in 2004, so I found the full games on YouTube in good quality, and I have some thoughts.

-Ben Wallace was an underrated passer
-Rip Hamilton would easily be a max contact guy in todays NBA
-Okur had a pretty bad series
-Campbell was our best guy off the bench
-Lindsey Hunter was an absolute PEST
- Kareem Rush was a bucket
-Billups would be a top 20 guy if he played today
-Sheed struggled offensively
-Prince was ridiculously good
- I miss the Palace
-Al Michaels puts me to sleep I wish we had Breen back then
-this team would dominate todays game.

[joedumars1]

Not sure dominate, the rules have changed because of that team

[TurboTitan]

Not sure dominate, the rules have changed because of that team

The way we were switching everything on defense, rim protection everywhere, capable 3 pt shooters 1-4, athleticism all around, and the creative offense schemes we were running I really think this team would’ve contended even today

[Uncle Mxy]

Never forget.

[LaSheed]

I drink and watch that series often.

Slava Medvedenko pissed Rasheed off and it was spectacular.

[TurboTitan]

Luke Walton turning into an all star game 2 was also hilarious

[Crymson]

-this team would dominate todays game.

That team might make the conference finals if Rip and Sheed became good shooters, but winning a championship or even making the finals these days is more or less impossible without superstar talent. Today's game is all about guys who can create offense at an elite level.

The fact that the brand of defense the Pistons played in 2004 is literally against the rules is also worth noting.

Not sure dominate, the rules have changed because of that team

The way we were switching everything on defense, rim protection everywhere, capable 3 pt shooters 1-4, athleticism all around, and the creative offense schemes we were running I really think this team would’ve contended even today

Rip and Sheed were not capable shooters, and teams cannot win on defense anymore.

[ComboGuardCity]

There is a zero percent chance Rip and Sheed don’t translate to today’s game. They would’ve adapted to the game and along with that their three point shooting would be in the same percentile today as it was back then. Put it this way, Ray Allen’s 3pt % wouldn’t even be top 50 this past season for what he shot in 2003-2004. You honestly think 2004 Ray Allen isn’t a top 50 shooter if you moved his prime 20 years later?

[TurboTitan]

I may be delusional but I really think Billups would be a better Jalen Brunson in todays game, who led his team to a deep playoff run almost single handedly. 2 way players are a HOT commodity in todays game as well, and we had a squad filled with them. Rip Sheed and Billups would absolutely thrive in todays offense, and with the rule changes helping them out their games would take off to another level. Imagine how many free throws Rip and Chauncey would be shooting in todays NBA

[ahike12]

Guess I know what I'm about to start doing. I may come back to this thread if I have a hard time finding high quality like you mentioned. I was 17 when the finals happened (turned 18 later that year), so it would be nice to revisit.

[ducler]

I'd also like to find the series against Pacers and Nets in HD. Harder to find but both were greater oppositions than Lakers IMO.

[TurboTitan]

Guess I know what I'm about to start doing. I may come back to this thread if I have a hard time finding high quality like you mentioned. I was 17 when the finals happened (turned 18 later that year), so it would be nice to revisit.

The Pistons YouTube channel posted the full game 5. The others were quite easy to find on YT but lmk if you can’t find them. I’ve been having a blast watching them

[flow]

I'd also like to find the series against Pacers and Nets in HD. Harder to find but both were greater oppositions than Lakers IMO.

Without question. After we went up 2-0, the Nets won 3 straight games to go up 3-2, with Game 6 in Jersey. LB would probably never admit it, but it felt like he thought we were done after losing Game 5 at home. He didn't even wear a tie for Game 6.

And the Pacers series was epic.

[joedumars1]

Not sure dominate, the rules have changed because of that team

The way we were switching everything on defense, rim protection everywhere, capable 3 pt shooters 1-4, athleticism all around, and the creative offense schemes we were running I really think this team would’ve contended even today

I have no doubt in that team, the rules is all with the defense not being able to do what helped make their d so great. Not many teams could match this teams heart/fight. Changing to no hand checking hurts

[MortSahlfan]

Rip was not a capable shooter? Huh?

[Canadafan]

Rip was not a capable shooter? Huh?

right? RIP was money.

[Invictus88]

-this team would dominate todays game.

That team might make the conference finals if Rip and Sheed became good shooters, but winning a championship or even making the finals these days is more or less impossible without superstar talent. Today's game is all about guys who can create offense at an elite level.

The fact that the brand of defense the Pistons played in 2004 is literally against the rules is also worth noting.

Not sure dominate, the rules have changed because of that team

The way we were switching everything on defense, rim protection everywhere, capable 3 pt shooters 1-4, athleticism all around, and the creative offense schemes we were running I really think this team would’ve contended even today

Rip and Sheed were not capable shooters, and teams cannot win on defense anymore.

I just don't understand this take. Comparing their numbers to league averages they were very capable.

Now if you were to say that if they were bound and determined to play the exact same style of basketball today that they played back in 2004 that they may not be successful then maybe you have something? But that doesn't really speak to how capable they were as players.

I think it's naive to think that as high level competitors that they wouldn't have modified their shot selection / play style to fit today's fame if such a scenario existed. You can even look at their splits from distance which were perfectly fine; especially taking into account how much more of a beating you took back then.

Note I am not debating w.r.t. effectiveness of defense in today's game. They have heavily neutered that with rule changes.

[MrBigShot]

There is a zero percent chance Rip and Sheed don’t translate to today’s game. They would’ve adapted to the game and along with that their three point shooting would be in the same percentile today as it was back then. Put it this way, Ray Allen’s 3pt % wouldn’t even be top 50 this past season for what he shot in 2003-2004. You honestly think 2004 Ray Allen isn’t a top 50 shooter if you moved his prime 20 years later?

Yup. Rip even led the league in 3pt % in 05-06 at 46% iirc. Low volume, but he could knock them down.

[Crymson]

Rip and Sheed were not capable shooters, and teams cannot win on defense anymore.

I just don't understand this take. Comparing their numbers to league averages they were very capable. [/quote]

You're right about Sheed -- I'd forgotten that he was a decent shooter for that time.

Rip shot threes on very low volume and was not consistent. That would probably be different today, but I'm talking about back then.

Yup. Rip even led the league in 3pt % in 05-06 at 46% iirc. Low volume, but he could knock them down.

Yes, on an inconsequential sample of .7 3PM per game. And then he shot 34% the next season.

[MrBigShot]

Yes, on an inconsequential sample of .7 3PM per game. And then he shot 34% the next season.

Followed by 44% on 2 attempts the year after that, and 37% on 2.8 attempts the year after that. Nobody was jacking up like 8 threes a game back then outside of maybe Ray Allen. Rip had 7 years at 36%+, he wasn't a an elite 3pt shooter by any means but he was capable.