With the 57th pick, the Raptors select Ulrich Chomche

[Chandan]

Play him off the bench as the second centre behind poetle ... cut olynik... give him and Bruno all of Olnyk 's minutes...

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

[S.W.A.N]

Play him off the bench as the second centre behind poetle ... cut olynik... give him and Bruno all of Olnyk 's minutes...

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

I would give him 10 minutes per game, early on, vs all this top competition we have at the start of the season. Have him guard all sorts of players. Guard, Wings, Bigs.

Will he Struggle? most likely, but he'll get that first hand experience.

At the very worst, he'll have footage of himself, against that top competition.

Then, He can take that experience to the 905, and build from there.

I don't hate it, I just don't think it will happen. Our 'bigs' rotation to start year will likely be Jacob, Kelly and Bruno (or hopefully Koloko)

There really isn't 10 mins available for Chomche. Maybe he's really impressive in training camp and forces his way into rotation but I still think they don't try to do that. Having him practice with the big team and play some pre-season minutes and then make his way to G-league. When we get to the part of season where someone is hurt or we actively tanking... I mean playing a deep bench and resting players, then he'll get those minutes.

Either way is fine.

[S.W.A.N]

Play him off the bench as the second centre behind poetle ... cut olynik... give him and Bruno all of Olnyk 's minutes...

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

[MessiahUjiri]

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

If you look closely, you will realize that there is more than one way to tank. One is the overt “suck for many years process” approach employed by Detroit. That doesn’t always work, and it’s an outdated approach if you don’t get a Wemby level talent.

The approach that Masai is taking is to “lose via lack of roster depth”. We are too good to get a bottom 4 record, but if you look closely, our roster sucks after the top 4-5 guys. So get ready to lose all the bench minutes, and lose a lot of close games. A missed game by a starter is almost a guaranteed loss.

It is highly likely that we’ll get a January trade to sell someone like Brown/Olynyk, to hopefully acquire another pick in the draft.


We have expiring contracts, a bunch of picks, young players, and cap space to take back contracts.

That means aiming for a 5-8 bottom record, and hoping for some lotto/draft luck.

If you were truly in the GM position, you’d probably do the same thing too.

[Chandan]

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

OKC had like zero of these solid vets and yet they are pretty much having our dream scenario.
We had plenty of vets over the year (Thad, temple, Fred) and continue to stumble come out of the gate unprepared, character wise? drug abuse, spouse beating, bet on yourself... Etc.

Even if this winning culture is a thing, it doesn't require years to set up. All it is is a bunch of guys who take their jobs seriously and stay disciplined.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

If you look closely, you will realize that there is more than one way to tank. One is the overt “suck for many years process” approach employed by Detroit. That doesn’t always work, and it’s an outdated approach if you don’t get a Wemby level talent.

The approach that Masai is taking is to “lose via lack of roster depth”. We are too good to get a bottom 4 record, but if you look closely, our roster sucks after the top 4-5 guys. So get ready to lose all the bench minutes, and lose a lot of close games. A missed game by a starter is almost a guaranteed loss.

It is highly likely that we’ll get a January trade to sell someone like Brown/Olynyk, to hopefully acquire another pick in the draft.


We have expiring contracts, a bunch of picks, young players, and cap space to take back contracts.

That means aiming for a 5-8 bottom record, and hoping for some lotto/draft luck.

If you were truly in the GM position, you’d probably do the same thing too.

yeah yeah our roster lacks depth, Masai a genius, hey we'd have even less depth if he didn't trade first rounders for poets, a first for olynyk and ogbaji, keep bruce brown etc.

[Scase]

Hell no.

A year of playing in the 905 and some nba games is perfect. Keep expectations low and let the kid learn the freaking game. There a reason we signed him to a 2 way. It gives him a proper development path.

They learned from Bruno. Take more time and develop him as a professional player.

And Olynik isn't getting cut. He's going to be our backup 4 emergency 5. You can't have a team full of rookies without good vets unless you want to be the Pistons and suck for the next 20 years.

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

Close but no. This is the early stages of a treadmill re-tool, not the growth part of a rebuild. If you squint they look the same, but not if you look at it objectively.

We didn't trade for IQ/RJ to skip tanking, we traded for them so we can get right back to this play in/1st round false hope crap that ownerships like MLSE live for. Also, Masais' contract is up in 2026, there is no chance he gets a new one if the team is a 30win season in 25-26.

Tanking only benefits the fans, not anyone at MLSE, lets stop pretending this is some big brain plan for getting back to glory.

[S.W.A.N]

you can absolutely have a team full of rookies without good vets when you are trying to tank. We dont need to be piston for 20 years, just 3 (2 if lucky). And we've already done 1 last year.

Respectfully disagree. Without good vets to set culture it takes way longer than a couple years.

Also we aren't trying to tank. We wouldn't have traded for players if that was the plan. We traded for Quickley and RJ so we could skip the tanking years.
This is the we too good to tank but not good enough to be a real playoff threat section of the rebuild. We'll lose enough games to get a good pick but not enough to be a threat to the tanking teams.

OKC had like zero of these solid vets and yet they are pretty much having our dream scenario.
We had plenty of vets over the year (Thad, temple, Fred) and continue to stumble come out of the gate unprepared, character wise? drug abuse, spouse beating, bet on yourself... Etc.

Even if this winning culture is a thing, it doesn't require years to set up. All it is is a bunch of guys who take their jobs seriously and stay disciplined.

2019/2020 44 wins Chris Paul, Dennis Schroder, Mike Muscala, Steven Adams
2020/2021 22 wins Al Horford, Mike Muscala, George Hill
2021/2022 24 wins Derrick Favors, Mike Muscala
2022/2023 40 wins Mike Muscala, Dario Saric. this was also Shay and Kendrick Williams 4th season so pretty experienced at this
So one year without at least 3 solid vets during their rebuild.

Shay is also a top 5 player in NBA. This has why their rebuild so successful. So yes they are a dream scenario, and not a good representation of how to rebuild a roster other than getting crazy good talent via trade.



We have 4 vets that aren't 'core pieces' and 2 of them (Brown and Boucher) are on the trading block. We're set up pretty well right now. If Scottie is a top 5 plater like Shay then we'll probably win 40 games..ish if he isn't there yet we will be 35 or less wins and get another top 10 pick.

I'd take our roster and situation over 2/3s of the league. Not a bad spot to be at all

[Stromile12]

Can't wait to see how Chomche develops over the next couple of years.

[LoveMyRaps]

Might be the player I'm most excited to watch this season.

[DreamTeam09]

Only thing I wanna see out of him of this year is him understanding the game, where he should be, & what his coaches & teammates want from him.
Apparently he's a smart dude so I believe he will adjust to the learning curve.

[Smalltown]

Tanking only benefits the fans

Respectfully. Tanking does not benefit the fans. It often creates a nearly unwatchable product. As a fan, I want to watch a competitive team.

[Scase]

Tanking only benefits the fans

Respectfully. Tanking does not benefit the fans. It often creates a nearly unwatchable product. As a fan, I want to watch a competitive team.

And I want to watch a team that has a shot to win a title, not just get 45 wins in the regular season. Kids don't like to eat their veggies, but they still need to.

No one enjoys watching bad teams, but sometimes you gotta have short term pain for long term gain.

[Psubs]

Can't wait to see how Chomche develops over the next couple of years.

Might be like Giannis with outside shooting, if he works extremely hard and gets lots of lean muscle.

[Smalltown]

Tanking only benefits the fans

Respectfully. Tanking does not benefit the fans. It often creates a nearly unwatchable product. As a fan, I want to watch a competitive team.

And I want to watch a team that has a shot to win a title, not just get 45 wins in the regular season. Kids don't like to eat their veggies, but they still need to.

No one enjoys watching bad teams, but sometimes you gotta have short term pain for long term gain.

Except it's rarely short-term pain. Very few teams move from tank to competitive in less than 5 years.

[Stromile12]

Can't wait to see how Chomche develops over the next couple of years.

Might be like Giannis with outside shooting, if he works extremely hard and gets lots of lean muscle.

I hope so. I am more excited about Chomche than any of our other young players besides Scottie. The physical tools make me hopeful that he can develop into our big of the future. Mans was running around like Usain bolt

[Scase]

Respectfully. Tanking does not benefit the fans. It often creates a nearly unwatchable product. As a fan, I want to watch a competitive team.

And I want to watch a team that has a shot to win a title, not just get 45 wins in the regular season. Kids don't like to eat their veggies, but they still need to.

No one enjoys watching bad teams, but sometimes you gotta have short term pain for long term gain.

Except it's rarely short-term pain. Very few teams move from tank to competitive in less than 5 years.

That's kinda the joy of the position we are currently in. We have a good base with Scottie, and an alright supporting cast with RJ/IQ. The team needs another Scottie level talent if there is any chance to turn this team into anything more than first round fodder, the next 2 years of drafts are looking to be very deep, especially the upcoming 2025 draft. This could be another in and out bad season like Tampa, we just have to be creative with it. Shutting down Jak for a decent chunk of time will be an easy way to secure a fair chunk of losses, trading him would be a guaranteed way to do it, but I know some people are adverse to that.

If we could swing a top 5 pick this year, I would happily bounce back to attempting to compete starting next year. We aren't in a horrible situation, but we are at a crossroads where we can either lean into getting some high level talent for a relatively short period of "bad", or we can lean into trying to force a limited and flawed core into making the play in and getting a mediocre pick that likely won't be super impactful.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but if I told you the team has a rather high chance at adding some desperately needed talent which in turn gives a much higher chance to be a real competitive team, with a much higher ceiling for a short 1 year dip, over a low chance of becoming a real competitive team but reach that lower ceiling 1 year sooner, would you still pick the latter?

No one is calling for a fire sale and tanking for 5 years.

[Smalltown]

And I want to watch a team that has a shot to win a title, not just get 45 wins in the regular season. Kids don't like to eat their veggies, but they still need to.

No one enjoys watching bad teams, but sometimes you gotta have short term pain for long term gain.

Except it's rarely short-term pain. Very few teams move from tank to competitive in less than 5 years.

That's kinda the joy of the position we are currently in. We have a good base with Scottie, and an alright supporting cast with RJ/IQ. The team needs another Scottie level talent if there is any chance to turn this team into anything more than first round fodder, the next 2 years of drafts are looking to be very deep, especially the upcoming 2025 draft. This could be another in and out bad season like Tampa, we just have to be creative with it. Shutting down Jak for a decent chunk of time will be an easy way to secure a fair chunk of losses, trading him would be a guaranteed way to do it, but I know some people are adverse to that.

If we could swing a top 5 pick this year, I would happily bounce back to attempting to compete starting next year. We aren't in a horrible situation, but we are at a crossroads where we can either lean into getting some high level talent for a relatively short period of "bad", or we can lean into trying to force a limited and flawed core into making the play in and getting a mediocre pick that likely won't be super impactful.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but if I told you the team has a rather high chance at adding some desperately needed talent which in turn gives a much higher chance to be a real competitive team, with a much higher ceiling for a short 1 year dip, over a low chance of becoming a real competitive team but reach that lower ceiling 1 year sooner, would you still pick the latter?

No one is calling for a fire sale and tanking for 5 years.

The problem with all that is it doesn't even come close to guaranteeing you a top 5 pick. There are some truly terrible teams in the league this year. The Raptors would probably still stumble into more wins than 5-7 other teams. In which case the odds are actually greater to move down in the draft than up.

At this point i think the move is to let this team show what it can do while developing the young guys. If we fall just short we probably pick 10-14. If we exceed expectations - the young players get valuable playoff experience.

[Psubs]

The problem with all that is it doesn't even come close to guaranteeing you a top 5 pick. There are some truly terrible teams in the league this year. The Raptors would probably still stumble into more wins than 5-7 other teams. In which case the odds are actually greater to move down in the draft than up.

At this point i think the move is to let this team show what it can do while developing the young guys. If we fall just short we probably pick 10-14. If we exceed expectations - the young players get valuable playoff experience.

Just keep hitting on draft picks like a mid-teens pick this summer and the early 2nd Portland pick.

Then make some consolidating trades with like Boucher, Agbaji, Davion, etc.

[Chandan]

Except it's rarely short-term pain. Very few teams move from tank to competitive in less than 5 years.

That's kinda the joy of the position we are currently in. We have a good base with Scottie, and an alright supporting cast with RJ/IQ. The team needs another Scottie level talent if there is any chance to turn this team into anything more than first round fodder, the next 2 years of drafts are looking to be very deep, especially the upcoming 2025 draft. This could be another in and out bad season like Tampa, we just have to be creative with it. Shutting down Jak for a decent chunk of time will be an easy way to secure a fair chunk of losses, trading him would be a guaranteed way to do it, but I know some people are adverse to that.

If we could swing a top 5 pick this year, I would happily bounce back to attempting to compete starting next year. We aren't in a horrible situation, but we are at a crossroads where we can either lean into getting some high level talent for a relatively short period of "bad", or we can lean into trying to force a limited and flawed core into making the play in and getting a mediocre pick that likely won't be super impactful.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but if I told you the team has a rather high chance at adding some desperately needed talent which in turn gives a much higher chance to be a real competitive team, with a much higher ceiling for a short 1 year dip, over a low chance of becoming a real competitive team but reach that lower ceiling 1 year sooner, would you still pick the latter?

No one is calling for a fire sale and tanking for 5 years.

The problem with all that is it doesn't even come close to guaranteeing you a top 5 pick. There are some truly terrible teams in the league this year. The Raptors would probably still stumble into more wins than 5-7 other teams. In which case the odds are actually greater to move down in the draft than up.

At this point i think the move is to let this team show what it can do while developing the young guys. If we fall just short we probably pick 10-14. If we exceed expectations - the young players get valuable playoff experience.

Aren't most of those teams bad because they are tanking?