2024-25 Regular Season

[JujitsuFlip]

Travers signed to the last two-way spot.

I'm sure he's glad to finally have a deal inked.

All the 2 ways taken care of, now that Kenny is back stateside.

Once the Okoro stuff is finally solved we may see how the regular roster shakes out.

[ijspeelman]

From Okoro’s perspective, does it make sense to take the QO and bet on yourself or take a longer guaranteed deal at a lower value?

I just don’t see Okoro’s value rising much after one year on the QO, especially since I don’t see him taking up a lot more of a role on the team. At his current role, he’s kind of peaked statistically speaking. Unless he starts taking more threes

[JujitsuFlip]

From Okoro’s perspective, does it make sense to take the QO and bet on yourself or take a longer guaranteed deal at a lower value?

I just don’t see Okoro’s value rising much after one year on the QO, especially since I don’t see him taking up a lot more of a role on the team. At his current role, he’s kind of peaked statistically speaking. Unless he starts taking more threes

He may hold out into camp or beyond, we'll have to see. At some point, Cavs will have to fill their final standard contracts one way or another.

[JonFromVA]

From Okoro’s perspective, does it make sense to take the QO and bet on yourself or take a longer guaranteed deal at a lower value?

I just don’t see Okoro’s value rising much after one year on the QO, especially since I don’t see him taking up a lot more of a role on the team. At his current role, he’s kind of peaked statistically speaking. Unless he starts taking more threes

He may hold out into camp or beyond, we'll have to see. At some point, Cavs will have to fill their final standard contracts one way or another.

I suppose a holdout is possible if he thinks it means he'll eventually get S&T'd and get the contract he wants; otherwise it just depends what he really wants.

If he thinks Kenny will give him minutes even though he's signed to the QO and he'll play better under Kenny, that could be his best bet; but we've seen that approach backfire. If he's happy with the team and wants security, he may just take our offer and shift his focus to his next contract when he'll likely be entering his prime.

Isaac is still young and his role was very limited under Bickerstaff. I would not assume he's done developing, but he needs the right opportunity.

Given how many short wings we have on the roster Isaac should probably just accept our multi-year offer. That will afford him a lot of time to prove himself. Taking the QO may tempt him, but if he doesn't get the opportunity to prove himself, it could be his last big payday.

[JujitsuFlip]

Love's rebounding and outlet passes would've helped tremendously in the Knicks series, especially since Mobley and Allen were the only 2 bigs who played.

Just bc Green was the last guy added doesn't mean he's the 15th man, what?! He was 1 of 7 guys getting minutes in that series. jb used him terribly.

Could they have had better players in the Jones and TT slots though?

When do you expect the Cavs are ever going to have cap space again with 3 max contracts and Allen being paid handsomely?

Merrill and CPJ being found is cool, too bad jb didn't trust them.

Niang was a F in the playoffs, no doubt. Again, who else could they have had in that salary slot instead?

Love would've been an improvement over playing Cedi Osman, Danny Green, and Caris LeVert at the 4, yes. Would that have changed the Cavs losing in 5 to the Cavs winning in 7 or less? That's an awful lot of credit you're giving to a bench player who still might not have earned his rotation spot back by the playoffs, still might not have figured out his shooting, and maybe would've mailed in the season if he wasn't released. The thought at the time of release is that he might've been a liability for the locker room.

Green only got minutes because JBB didn't know what he could get out of him and decided finding out was better than wondering what-if in the offseason, and in theory he at least offered shooting which the Cavs needed. But against the Knicks he absolutely played like a guy who'd only get 9 NBA minutes after that.

The Cavs did not have more money or guaranteed rotation spots to offer when they signed Jones and TT, so no, I don't think they could've done better.

Who was good in the playoffs that signed for less than Niang, could shoot, and could play backup PF? The list is Christian Wood, Dario Saric, Kevin Love. Were any of those guys obviously better choices? Could anyone predict that Niang's shot would suddenly leave him in the playoffs after having success in the past?

We'll never know bc jb benched him lol

Not sure Danny was the best use of the open roster spot.

The Cavs have not had a legitimate back-up center since Allen arrived in CLE. Playing your starting 4 as your back-up 5 is an awful strategy. Similarly a bad strategy to play your starting 2 as your back-up 1.

Who cares who coulda predicted it, jb's sorry butt just kept going with it, despite it not working on either end of the floor.

[mcfly1204]

Seeing 32 year old TJ McConnell get 4/$45, how do I not see Okoro getting something like 3/$45?

[JujitsuFlip]

Seeing 32 year old TJ McConnell get 4/$45, how do I not see Okoro getting something like 3/$45?

Remains to be seen. No one wants to pay the piper.

As much as paying that year 1 would suck, Cavs would easily match it. Starting the tax a year early isn't ideal but it would be a no brainer to match it.

It's nearly double what the Cavs rumored to have offered Okoro AAV wise but once the cap goes up 10% in the summer of 2025 it's an easy pill to swallow. Also, if Kenny doesn't like him, it's an easy contract to trade.

[jbk1234]

From Okoro’s perspective, does it make sense to take the QO and bet on yourself or take a longer guaranteed deal at a lower value?

I just don’t see Okoro’s value rising much after one year on the QO, especially since I don’t see him taking up a lot more of a role on the team. At his current role, he’s kind of peaked statistically speaking. Unless he starts taking more threes

Yeah, it's not difficult to envision a scenario where playing on the Q.O. backfires. We don't have as many injuries, Tyson comes along nicely, and he's relegated to playing with backups on fewer minutes.

[jbk1234]

Seeing 32 year old TJ McConnell get 4/$45, how do I not see Okoro getting something like 3/$45?

McConnell has a solid handle, can run an offense, and most importantly, was able to come off the bench in the playoffs and give the Pacers really good minutes. Hali wasn't 100%, but there wasn't much of a drop off when he rested. Playoff teams pay guys who can bring it in the playoffs.

[JonFromVA]

Seeing 32 year old TJ McConnell get 4/$45, how do I not see Okoro getting something like 3/$45?

The MLE is $12.8M this year. Even though, we have many versions of the MLE these days, we need to keep in mind the full MLE is still just fun money teams threw around to try to sign a useful player. With the aprons hitting harder, teams are just being more careful with it.

Isaac's RFA status hurts him, if he was a UFA he'd quite possibly already have realized his best offer was going to be around that level and taken it, but players do slip through the cracks. The number of teams interested in his profile is going to be limited to begin with.

Nerlens Noel is the classic cautionary tale turning down $72M from the Mavs and having to settle for a minimum deal, but in retrospect a minimum deal was probably his value.

[jbk1234]

Seeing 32 year old TJ McConnell get 4/$45, how do I not see Okoro getting something like 3/$45?

The MLE is $12.8M this year. Even though, we have many versions of the MLE these days, we need to keep in mind the full MLE is still just fun money teams threw around to try to sign a useful player. With the aprons hitting harder, teams are just being more careful with it.

Isaac's RFA status hurts him, if he was a UFA he'd quite possibly already have realized his best offer was going to be around that level and taken it, but players do slip through the cracks. The number of teams interested in his profile is going to be limited to begin with.

Nerlens Noel is the classic cautionary tale turning down $72M from the Mavs and having to settle for a minimum deal, but in retrospect a minimum deal was probably his value.

It's really rare for a player to hit the market as a RFA anymore and I can't remember the last time the team, rather than the player, missed. Even with Ayton, the Suns ended up committed for 4 years instead of 5 and on a contract with smaller raises. Miles Bridges ended up re-signing with the Hornets, after playing on the QO, which is a pretty good sign that his market was pretty soft.

[toooskies]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

[jbk1234]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

He's tried to expand his game and I worry that his limits are just his limits. He's a hard worker who plays hard while on the court, but there a lot more guys who leave the NBA with the same limitations they entered it with than there are Dipos who make a 5th year leap.

[JonFromVA]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

Well, he needs to get signed up and back with the program. We'll have to see how Kenny really runs this the team, but from what I've read and if the drafting of Tyson is indicative, he wants everyone involved in the offense, making decisions, driving, moving the ball, etc. Okoro can do those things and I think he could grow in a system that encourages it without asking him to do too much.

The other factor will be what Kenny can do to improve our floor spacing which makes everything harder for everybody but especially for players who don't have elite handles and ISO ability.

[jbk1234]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

Well, he needs to get signed up and back with the program. We'll have to see how Kenny really runs this the team, but from what I've read and if the drafting of Tyson is indicative, he wants everyone involved in the offense, making decisions, driving, moving the ball, etc. Okoro can do those things and I think he could grow in a system that encourages it without asking him to do too much.

The other factor will be what Kenny can do to improve our floor spacing which makes everything harder for everybody but especially for players who don't have elite handles and ISO ability.

Part of the problem with floor spacing is that the other team has a say in how that goes. There are real limits to what coaching can accomplish when the other team decides to pack the paint and you can't make them pay for doing it. Mobley becoming a threat from midrange is all but a necessity for the current core to contend long-term.

Due to defensive limitations, it's difficult to play Merrill and Niang in the same unit, and all but impossible once you add Garland or CPJ. While I understand the real world restrictions Altman was operating under, I worry about our ability to go 10 deep with a coach who likes to play with a 10+ man rotation.

[JujitsuFlip]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

Well, he needs to get signed up and back with the program. We'll have to see how Kenny really runs this the team, but from what I've read and if the drafting of Tyson is indicative, he wants everyone involved in the offense, making decisions, driving, moving the ball, etc. Okoro can do those things and I think he could grow in a system that encourages it without asking him to do too much.

The other factor will be what Kenny can do to improve our floor spacing which makes everything harder for everybody but especially for players who don't have elite handles and ISO ability.

Part of the problem with floor spacing is that the other team has a say in how that goes. There are real limits to what coaching can accomplish when the other team decides to pack the paint and you can't make them pay for doing it. Mobley becoming a threat from midrange is all but a necessity for the current core to contend long-term.

Due to defensive limitations, it's difficult to play Merrill and Niang in the same unit, and all but impossible once you add Garland or CPJ. While I understand the real world restrictions Altman was operating under, I worry about our ability to go 10 deep with a coach who likes to play with a 10+ man rotation.

Let's take a look at a win with 10 guys playing 10+ minutes for the 2018 Atkinson Nets.

Starting 5 is D'Lo, Joe Harris, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

At 5:14 in the 1st quarter Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ check-in.

The 2nd line is now Dinwiddie, Crabbe, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At 4:12 in the 1st quarter Ed Davis comes in for Allen. Then at 3:23 in the 1st Carroll comes in for LeVert.

So he's running all back-ups with a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Carroll, RHJ, and Davis.

At 10:35 in the 2nd quarter Joe Harris replaces RHJ

Now they're running a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, and Davis.

Then at 8:22 in the 2nd quarter Dudley checks back in for Carroll.

At 6:23 in the 2nd quarter LeVert, D'Lo, and Allen come back in to make the starting 5 whole again.

With 4:09 left in the 2nd, RHJ comes in for Dudley and shortly after Dinwiddie comes in for Harris with 3:18 left in the half and the below line-up closes.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At the end of the half the minute totals are as follows...

LeVert 15 mins
Allen 14 mins
Dinwiddie 14 mins
Harris 14 mins
D'Lo 13 mins
Dudley 11 mins
Crabbe 11 mins
RHJ 11 mins
Davis 10 mins
Carroll 7 mins

2nd half same starting 5.

At 6:23 in the 3rd Crabbe comes in for Harris. Then at 5:27 Dinwiddie and RHJ come in for DLo and Dudley. Same first 3 subs off the bench at the 1st half.

5:15 Davis for Allen then at 3:22 Carroll for LeVert.

So again, Kenny is running all backups to close the 3rd.

To start the 4th the line is Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, Davis

10:49 in the 4th Allen comes in for Ed Davis.

8:15 RHJ comes in for Carroll.

7:48 kind of a weird sub, LeVert in for Allen.

6:53 and 6:41 D'Lo, Allen, and Dudley sub in for Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ.

The starting 5 is now whole again.

5:05 Dinwiddie comes in for Harris and the below line-up essentially closes the game.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

2 point win over the Jokic and Murray Nuggets. Game minute totals are below.

LeVert 31 mins
Allen 30 mins
Dinwiddie 30 mins
Harris 26 mins
D'Lo 26 mins
Dudley 24 mins
Crabbe 23 mins
RHJ 18 mins
Davis 16 mins
Carroll 14 mins

Kenny is going to have 0 issue going 10 deep with this Cavs current roster.

[JujitsuFlip]

Pretty easy to draw comparisons

*LeVert 15 mins
*Allen 14 mins
+Dinwiddie 14 mins
*Harris 14 mins
*D'Lo 13 mins
*Dudley 11 mins
+Crabbe 11 mins
+RHJ 11 mins
&Davis 10 mins
&Carroll 7 mins

* our starters are gonna be Garland, Mitchell, Strus, Mobley, and Allen.

Allen can still be our Allen and Mitchell will be our LeVert. Mobley is gonna be more than the 4s Kenny had on the Nets more like Draymond Green from his Warriors days.

+ LeVert, Niang, and Wade

LeVert pivots to be our Dinwiddie as the 6th man but our top 3 guys off the bench are known. Okoro can take Wade's spot, depending on matchup then Wade bumps down to the next level.

& without a true back-up 5, Mobley will see more minutes than the other Nets bigs did but we can plug in Travers or Thor to that 10-12 minute role. If Okoro doesn't hold out we have a little 15 minute role open for him. If not, Tyson gonna have to find his spot as that 10th guy. Shabazz Napier was sometimes the Nets 11th man, so i could see CPJ or TJ filling maybe not up to 10 minutes a game but ya know between the 3 to 8 minute per game slot just as an extra ball handler, depending on foul trouble and matchup.

Edit: and i forgot about Merrill

[Eightnineborn]

Terrible mistake to not move Darius, if Darius shows some glipses of being better, they should try to move him before the deadline.

[toooskies]

Pretty easy to draw comparisons

*LeVert 15 mins
*Allen 14 mins
+Dinwiddie 14 mins
*Harris 14 mins
*D'Lo 13 mins
*Dudley 11 mins
+Crabbe 11 mins
+RHJ 11 mins
&Davis 10 mins
&Carroll 7 mins

* our starters are gonna be Garland, Mitchell, Strus, Mobley, and Allen.

Allen can still be our Allen and Mitchell will be our LeVert. Mobley is gonna be more than the 4s Kenny had on the Nets more like Draymond Green from his Warriors days.

+ LeVert, Niang, and Wade

LeVert pivots to be our Dinwiddie as the 6th man but our top 3 guys off the bench are known. Okoro can take Wade's spot, depending on matchup then Wade bumps down to the next level.

& without a true back-up 5, Mobley will see more minutes than the other Nets bigs did but we can plug in Travers or Thor to that 10-12 minute role. If Okoro doesn't hold out we have a little 15 minute role open for him. If not, Tyson gonna have to find his spot as that 10th guy. Shabazz Napier was sometimes the Nets 11th man, so i could see CPJ or TJ filling maybe not up to 10 minutes a game but ya know between the 3 to 8 minute per game slot just as an extra ball handler, depending on foul trouble and matchup.

Edit: and i forgot about Merrill

If we go lineups with 5 bench players on the court at once, I want Okoro to start so the bench at least has both Strus and LeVert to make plays.

But doing anything other than having one of the two guards and one of the two bigs from the core four on the court at any one time is failing to optimize them.

[jbk1234]

Terrible mistake to not move Darius, if Darius shows some glipses of being better, they should try to move him before the deadline.

I mean he's going to play better than he did when he was just coming off an injury, three starters and Wade went down, and he was the only scoring threat during the toughest part of our schedule. He's not getting moved for nickles and dimes though. He's unlikely to get traded at all if both he and the team are both playing well.