Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 8.0: A Forum Divided

[drsd]

Escaping from today;s boredom with jumping cats:

Watch on YouTube

[p0peye]

Oden could play, like for real. He demonstrated that in games where he was healthy. Other guys on that list are just....really bad.

And Fultz could play. One cannot exclude injuries in this overall-#1 woat discussion. Oden's per36 stats were not very good in the games he did play. He was a bust.

So, in my knowledge, Fultz didn't have a single NBA game where he wasn't impacted by TOS - thus I have no data to declare him as 'could play'. You may argue that he could play even though he couldn't shoot, with occasional transition dunk or at time midrange jumpshot (before he was relegated to strictly dunker spot), which may be fair.

However, I disagree. In my opinion, while Fultz was somewhat effective at other parts of the game, as non-shooter (let alone being a non-shooting guard) he was detrimental to modern offense. Having him on the floor allowed opposing defense to simplify defensive strategy. They were not pressed into switches, rotations or closeouts which allowed them to deploy deep drop coverage and double teams.

[VFX]

The year is 2050 and Magic fans are still talking about Fultz TOS. He has retired in Beijing after a lengthy career and has started a podcast with Ben Simmons and Anthony Bennett.

Time to move the **** on

[drsd]

Oden could play, like for real. He demonstrated that in games where he was healthy. Other guys on that list are just....really bad.

And Fultz could play. One cannot exclude injuries in this overall-#1 woat discussion. Oden's per36 stats were not very good in the games he did play. He was a bust.

So, in my knowledge, Fultz didn't have a single NBA game where he wasn't impacted by TOS - thus I have no data to declare him as 'could play'. You may argue that he could play even though he couldn't shoot, with occasional transition dunk or at time midrange jumpshot (before he was relegated to strictly dunker spot), which may be fair.

However, I disagree. In my opinion, while Fultz was somewhat effective at other parts of the game, as non-shooter (let alone being a non-shooting guard) he was detrimental to modern offense. Having him on the floor allowed opposing defense to simplify defensive strategy. They were not pressed into switches, rotations or closeouts which allowed them to deploy deep drop coverage and double teams.

And Oden never had two functioning legs in the NBA. Not sure what the point is. Injuries do not exempt one from BUST status.

[thelead]

I do find it crazy that we had two lotto pick guards buried on the bench while we played Fultz, who can’t find a team that wants him, in the playoffs.

[VFX]

I do find it crazy that we had two lotto pick guards buried on the bench while we played Fultz, who can’t find a team that wants him, in the playoffs.

A litmus test that Mosely failed spectacularly whether it was his call or not.

[thelead]

I do find it crazy that we had two lotto pick guards buried on the bench while we played Fultz, who can’t find a team that wants him, in the playoffs.

A litmus test that Mosely failed spectacularly whether it was his call or not.

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

[eyriq]

I do find it crazy that we had two lotto pick guards buried on the bench while we played Fultz, who can’t find a team that wants him, in the playoffs.

A litmus test that Mosely failed spectacularly whether it was his call or not.

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

FAILED

[OrlChamps2030]

I do find it crazy that we had two lotto pick guards buried on the bench while we played Fultz, who can’t find a team that wants him, in the playoffs.

A litmus test that Mosely failed spectacularly whether it was his call or not.

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

Your two lottery picks were averaging the below post ASB -

AB: 3.8/1.7/0.6
Jett: 1.2/0.4/0.6

AB hadn't played a meaningful stretch in months. Jett had never played a meaningful minute period.

You're seriously thinking they would have changed anything? It's more likely they would have gotten broken and lost confidence after posting the Tony Snell 0/0/0 special.

If anyone is at fault, its the FO for not having a competent PG on the roster.

[VFX]

A litmus test that Mosely failed spectacularly whether it was his call or not.

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

Your two lottery picks were averaging the below post ASB -

AB: 3.8/1.7/0.6
Jett: 1.2/0.4/0.6

AB hadn't played a meaningful stretch in months. Jett had never played a meaningful minute period.

You're seriously thinking they would have changed anything? It's more likely they would have gotten broken and lost confidence after posting the Tony Snell 0/0/0 special.

If anyone is at fault, its the FO for not having a competent PG on the roster.

You are missing the point.

Fultz sucked all season and was spectacularly bad in the playoffs. He's no longer on the roster and not good enough to be called up by ANY NBA team. AB was replaced by Fultz in the second half of the season this also ate into Cole's minutes and killed his momentum from a great seasons start. Fultz should have never played in the first place. He shouldnt have even been on the roster since AB was drafted.

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless.

Yeah, everyone wanted them to get a point guard at the deadline and people here defended the FO saying they were glad we didnt. Cant have it both ways. You are either developing AB OR you get a competent point guard.

They did neither and played Fultz. Test failed. More lost than gained.

[eyriq]

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

Your two lottery picks were averaging the below post ASB -

AB: 3.8/1.7/0.6
Jett: 1.2/0.4/0.6

AB hadn't played a meaningful stretch in months. Jett had never played a meaningful minute period.

You're seriously thinking they would have changed anything? It's more likely they would have gotten broken and lost confidence after posting the Tony Snell 0/0/0 special.

If anyone is at fault, its the FO for not having a competent PG on the roster.

You are missing the point.

Fultz sucked all season and was spectacularly bad in the playoffs. He's no longer on the roster and not good enough to be called up by ANY NBA team. AB was replaced by Fultz in the second half of the season this also ate into Cole's minutes and killed his momentum from a great seasons start. Fultz should have never played in the first place. He shouldnt have even been on the roster since AB was drafted.

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless.

Yeah, everyone wanted them to get a point guard at the deadline and people here defended the FO saying they were glad we didnt. Cant have it both ways. You are either developing AB OR you get a competent point guard.

They did neither and played Fultz. Test failed. More lost than gained.

Amen!

Black getting benched WAS A BAD DECISION. It made no sense to start the season, it made no sense mid-season.

The only logical explanation that works for me is that it's hard to balance player development across so many young players.

[OrlChamps2030]

I’m a fan of Mosley but he absolutely failed that ‘test’.

Your two lottery picks were averaging the below post ASB -

AB: 3.8/1.7/0.6
Jett: 1.2/0.4/0.6

AB hadn't played a meaningful stretch in months. Jett had never played a meaningful minute period.

You're seriously thinking they would have changed anything? It's more likely they would have gotten broken and lost confidence after posting the Tony Snell 0/0/0 special.

If anyone is at fault, its the FO for not having a competent PG on the roster.

You are missing the point.

Fultz sucked all season and was spectacularly bad in the playoffs. He's no longer on the roster and not good enough to be called up by ANY NBA team. AB was replaced by Fultz in the second half of the season this also ate into Cole's minutes and killed his momentum from a great seasons start. Fultz should have never played in the first place. He shouldnt have even been on the roster since AB was drafted.

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless.

Yeah, everyone wanted them to get a point guard at the deadline and people here defended the FO saying they were glad we didnt. Cant have it both ways. You are either developing AB OR you get a competent point guard.

They did neither and played Fultz. Test failed. More lost than gained.

I feel like you're missing your own point.. you said Mosely failed but then went on to list issues that begin with the FO, lol. I really don't disagree with most of what you are saying sans the below

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless

Its the playoffs, there's never zero downside to anything. Maybe the team doesn't win 3 games. Maybe AB loses all confidence if he ****s the bed. Who knows.

Fultz sucks but atleast hes a PG and can bring the ball up against pressure or *kinda* initiate offense. Black showed neither all season. Mosely coached this team to 47 wins and it seems like he doesn't trust AB to go to the bathroom by himself let alone play PG against a top 10 defense in the playoffs. Maybe you could argue he could've taken some of Gary's minutes?

It's crazy though that people really thought that Jett should have played in the playoffs. I get it, AB showed some flashes but Jett? Turn off your PS5

[VFX]

Your two lottery picks were averaging the below post ASB -

AB: 3.8/1.7/0.6
Jett: 1.2/0.4/0.6

AB hadn't played a meaningful stretch in months. Jett had never played a meaningful minute period.

You're seriously thinking they would have changed anything? It's more likely they would have gotten broken and lost confidence after posting the Tony Snell 0/0/0 special.

If anyone is at fault, its the FO for not having a competent PG on the roster.

You are missing the point.

Fultz sucked all season and was spectacularly bad in the playoffs. He's no longer on the roster and not good enough to be called up by ANY NBA team. AB was replaced by Fultz in the second half of the season this also ate into Cole's minutes and killed his momentum from a great seasons start. Fultz should have never played in the first place. He shouldnt have even been on the roster since AB was drafted.

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless.

Yeah, everyone wanted them to get a point guard at the deadline and people here defended the FO saying they were glad we didnt. Cant have it both ways. You are either developing AB OR you get a competent point guard.

They did neither and played Fultz. Test failed. More lost than gained.

I feel like you're missing your own point.. you said Mosely failed but then went on to list issues that begin with the FO, lol. I really don't disagree with most of what you are saying sans the below

There was zero downside to playing AB in the playoffs considering he's still on the roster and they lost the series regardless

Its the playoffs, there's never zero downside to anything. Maybe the team doesn't win 3 games. Maybe AB loses all confidence if he ****s the bed. Who knows.

Fultz sucks but atleast hes a PG and can bring the ball up against pressure or *kinda* initiate offense. Black showed neither all season. Mosely coached this team to 47 wins and it seems like he doesn't trust AB to go to the bathroom by himself let alone play PG against a top 10 defense in the playoffs. Maybe you could argue he could've taken some of Gary's minutes?

It's crazy though that people really thought that Jett should have played in the playoffs. I get it, AB showed some flashes but Jett? Turn off your PS5

Missing my own point? lol. Nah. FO decided to neither develop their lotto pick or prioritize to upgrade the position. Mosely could have made the decision for them and didn't with the obvious choice : utilize the seasons progress and develop AB. He decided to split minutes between 3 players and give minutes to a guy that wasn't even going to be here.

So Fultz sucks, Mosely started two shooting guards, but AB can't get minutes because we need Fultz to pretend to be relevant even though there were no plans for him to be part of the future?

FO gave Mosely no point guard help and instead of starting a "so-called PG" in Fultz he starts Gary Harris. His solution? cut into Cole's minutes and leave AB buried in the rotation even though he's on the roster for the long term. That's just stupid, sorry. Claiming that AB would lose all confidence because he played against Cleveland's bench is just a dumb argument.

Yeah, I would never argue that Jett should have played. Burying your lotto pick to play a china-league player 15mpg in the playoffs isnt passing the test. I don't really care what the cope argument happens to be just because Mosely exceeded expectations everywhere else making him devoid of all other criticism for some reason.

[anothermagicfan]

I think the playing Fultz over teenager AB is deeper than not developing young guys. Fultz was terrible but there has to be some consideration to him being a lot less likely to make costly mistakes and turn the ball over than AB. I also think there's somewhat of a precedence to see it through with Fultz given all he's gone through and the injuries he's battled. To go through all of that and to not even get the opportunity to play in the playoffs doesn't send a great message to the to locker room. AB was still a part of the team and the preparation for the playoffs. It's not like he lost out on the only opportunity he'll ever have to play. As it was he really only played meaningful minutes because of injuries. Fultz is gone from the team and won't block any young guards playing time now. The lesson there from the team, coach and FO is that they will stick with their players if they put in the effort and persevere. That playoff series against the cavaliers wasn't a waste. It was a stepping stone.

[Skybox]

Fultz wasn't good and AB wasn't good enough to displace him...that's a FO issue

[pepe1991]

Fultz wasn't good and AB wasn't good enough to displace him...that's a FO issue

Pretty much this.


Fultz was pretty much always bad nba player, we got him because he was broken, we payed him too much, we kept him for too long. That's on fron office.

But Black himself wasn't ready for more than he got. He wasn't even ready to play playmaker.

[anothermagicfan]

Now the opportunity is open for someone on this roster to step up. If that doesn't happen someone else needs to be brought in. It's up to the front office to decide who goes and who stays. Of course they will need to evaluate some more. They have built a roster that can play competitive basketball games and has a pretty solid foundation and plenty of moveable contracts. That's on them and if they don't capitalize on the chance to add this year the window of financial flexibility closes shut next off-season. Should be a very interesting season.

[Skybox]

Now the opportunity is open for someone on this roster to step up. If that doesn't happen someone else needs to be brought in. It's up to the front office to decide who goes and who stays. Of course they will need to evaluate some more. They have built a roster that can play competitive basketball games and has a pretty solid foundation and plenty of moveable contracts. That's on them and if they don't capitalize on the chance to add this year the window of financial flexibility closes shut next off-season. Should be a very interesting season.

They had every opportunity in the world to make moves this summer and last. They chose not to...they have either:
1) Doubled down on Suggs (and Cole, to a lesser extent) being good enough at a limited PG role and brought in a consummate SG to cement this lineup

or, 2) they believe AB is going to be that guy and they're willing to either pray for a development miracle this summer or wait until it happens

or, 3) they think putting all of the playmaking on the shoulders of 2 very young 6'10 forwards is a workable plan

*If they make a trade (for an offensive backcourt creator) in the near future, it means, imo, they f**ked up and they're finally fixing it, despite skipping two summers of tremendous flexibility.

[anothermagicfan]

Now the opportunity is open for someone on this roster to step up. If that doesn't happen someone else needs to be brought in. It's up to the front office to decide who goes and who stays. Of course they will need to evaluate some more. They have built a roster that can play competitive basketball games and has a pretty solid foundation and plenty of moveable contracts. That's on them and if they don't capitalize on the chance to add this year the window of financial flexibility closes shut next off-season. Should be a very interesting season.

They had every opportunity in the world to make moves this summer and last. They chose not to...they have either:
1) Doubled down on Suggs (and Cole, to a lesser extent) being good enough at a limited PG role and brought in a consummate SG to cement this lineup

or, 2) they believe AB is going to be that guy and they're willing to either pray for a development miracle this summer or wait until it happens

or, 3) they think putting all of the playmaking on the shoulders of 2 very young 6'10 forwards is a workable plan

*If they make a trade (for an offensive backcourt creator) in the near future, it means, imo, they f**ked up and they're finally fixing it, despite skipping two summers of tremendous flexibility.

I think almost 100% of us here wanted the front office to bring in a star caliber player to facilitate the offense this last off-season. It didn't happen. We got KCP instead and brought back GH. Nothing for us to do but see how it works out or just complain

[eyriq]

Now the opportunity is open for someone on this roster to step up. If that doesn't happen someone else needs to be brought in. It's up to the front office to decide who goes and who stays. Of course they will need to evaluate some more. They have built a roster that can play competitive basketball games and has a pretty solid foundation and plenty of moveable contracts. That's on them and if they don't capitalize on the chance to add this year the window of financial flexibility closes shut next off-season. Should be a very interesting season.

They had every opportunity in the world to make moves this summer and last. They chose not to...they have either:
1) Doubled down on Suggs (and Cole, to a lesser extent) being good enough at a limited PG role and brought in a consummate SG to cement this lineup

or, 2) they believe AB is going to be that guy and they're willing to either pray for a development miracle this summer or wait until it happens

or, 3) they think putting all of the playmaking on the shoulders of 2 very young 6'10 forwards is a workable plan

*If they make a trade (for an offensive backcourt creator) in the near future, it means, imo, they f**ked up and they're finally fixing it, despite skipping two summers of tremendous flexibility.

I think almost 100% of us here wanted the front office to bring in a star caliber player to facilitate the offense this last off-season. It didn't happen. We got KCP instead and brought back GH. Nothing for us to do but see how it works out or just complain

Nah, the slow cooker crowd is more than 1%