Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[pepe1991]

Imo part of problem is Paolo himself, who likes to shoot mid range shot. He is good at it (40% last year) but being good at it still isn't actually good shot itself, it's just 0,80 ppp.

In playoffs he was ultra elite from mid range, probably because his defender was mostly 6'4 guard Okoro so he could shoot without being bothered.



Imo Paolo would be much better if he is one setting screens and rolling or popping than one who gets screens set for. But that would require 2 major things:
1) actual PG
2) Paolo changing his playstyle

[Rainwater]

Read on Twitter

?t=_RfRoxlviIhMjZhZnJe_fA&s=19

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

[Skybox]

Imo part of problem is Paolo himself, who likes to shoot mid range shot. He is good at it (40% last year) but being good at it still isn't actually good shot itself, it's just 0,80 ppp.

In playoffs he was ultra elite from mid range, probably because his defender was mostly 6'4 guard Okoro so he could shoot without being bothered.



Imo Paolo would be much better if he is one setting screens and rolling or popping than one who gets screens set for. But that would require 2 major things:
1) actual PG
2) Paolo changing his playstyle

Agree...having those tough shots in his bag is what make him a potential superstar - when it's go time...(having to) taking them routinely is not a good, sustainable offensive plan. Another example of putting so much on one guy and then picking at his "inefficiency".

[drsd]

Imo part of problem is Paolo himself, who likes to shoot mid range shot. He is good at it (40% last year) but being good at it still isn't actually good shot itself, it's just 0,80 ppp.

In playoffs he was ultra elite from mid range, probably because his defender was mostly 6'4 guard Okoro so he could shoot without being bothered.



Imo Paolo would be much better if he is one setting screens and rolling or popping than one who gets screens set for. But that would require 2 major things:
1) actual PG
2) Paolo changing his playstyle

And-1

And when I read Banchero was woring on a classic low-post game (back to the basket???), I was very happy to read that.

This team needs a dramatic increase in Banchero's shooting efficiency. Not by a 2% FG improvement here and there, but a change in his shot-selection itself.

[drsd]

Enough with the cat videos you say, well there are cats in it!

Watch on YouTube

[VFX]

Read on Twitter

?t=_RfRoxlviIhMjZhZnJe_fA&s=19

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

[eyriq]

Read on Twitter

?t=_RfRoxlviIhMjZhZnJe_fA&s=19

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

What an absolute garbage heap that core was. Hennigan's legacy.

AG being the only lottery pick in the core after an era of tanking is so pathetic.

[jonbob17]

I heard an interesting suggestion today from Sam Vecenie.

The Magic may use KCP to defend the opponents best player, potentially saving Suggs some effort on that end that he can use to grow his game on the other end, specially Mentioning ball screens.

I hadn’t thought about how hard Jalen works on the defensive end could gave been holding him back a little in the other. They have managed his minutes accordingly. Maybe the KCP signing might have some other impacts we havent considered.

[jezzerinho]

I heard an interesting suggestion today from Sam Vecenie.

The Magic may use KCP to defend the opponents best player, potentially saving Suggs some effort on that end that he can use to grow his game on the other end, specially Mentioning ball screens.

I hadn’t thought about how hard Jalen works on the defensive end could gave been holding him back a little in the other. They have managed his minutes accordingly. Maybe the KCP signing might have some other impacts we havent considered.

It's a very good point. Great 2 way PGs are rare, esp if they're a high pace transition PG on offense. Huge energy expenditure.


It also says to Suggs: "There's no fallback to the SG position. KCP, Cole, Jett, Harris, Houstan, Queen.. that's a lot of potential SGs. If you want your big extension, Jalen, it better be because you're a great PG".

[Rainwater]

Read on Twitter

?t=_RfRoxlviIhMjZhZnJe_fA&s=19

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

Man, this is the truth. At their peaks they were good role players or bench players but these weren’t guys you built around.

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

?t=_RfRoxlviIhMjZhZnJe_fA&s=19

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Instad, we got cycle of terrible PGs being starters: Payton, Shelv Mack, Fultz, DJ Augustin... i'm probably forgetting some epic name.

I mean, just when you think about notion that Magic won 42 games and their biggest splash in offseason was Al Faruq Aminu, on team with Gordon, Isaac, MCW, Okeke, Iwundu , Ennis. It was literally the only position Magic didn't need ( damn why that sounds so familiar to 2024 summer ? )

That's pretty much problem with adding people who were specific role players on elite teams. You add them to lesser team and they have certain expetations, ones there is no proof they can actually carry. That's probably my biggest fear with KCP , people think he is way better or at least more well rounded player than he is.

[eyriq]

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Blowing it up and tanking is the ultimate high-risk move

[VFX]

Man at one point the Magic thought he was the core. So happy they moved on from him, Vuc, and AG team.

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Instad, we got cycle of terrible PGs being starters: Payton, Shelv Mack, Fultz, DJ Augustin... i'm probably forgetting some epic name.

I mean, just when you think about notion that Magic won 42 games and their biggest splash in offseason was Al Faruq Aminu, on team with Gordon, Isaac, MCW, Okeke, Iwundu , Ennis. It was literally the only position Magic didn't need ( damn why that sounds so familiar to 2024 summer ? )

That's pretty much problem with adding people who were specific role players on elite teams. You add them to lesser team and they have certain expetations, ones there is no proof they can actually carry. That's probably my biggest fear with KCP , people think he is way better or at least more well rounded player than he is.

People argued against tanking so vehemently that they would have rather rolled out Fournier, Vuc, and AG with no possible alternative to fix the back court issues via draft. Fultz was a last ditch attempt to get any semblance of upside at the position before drafting Cole. Something something culture, winning culture, tanking bad, etc etc. lets watch bad basketball and treadmill.

Man I would have rather they had blown it up sooner than any of those stupid moves - Fultz, Aminu, Simmons, Bacon, Ennis, DJ, etc. Weltman was doing such a good impression of these posters crying about remaining competitive while collecting scrubs to fix a broken roster. Good thing AG asked out so they could end the insanity.

I argued with people that moving AG or Vuc made the most sense. Nope, pages and pages of debate here arguing against tanking for YEARS. Now we have achieved more than any of those teams did with rookie contract players, a #1 draft pick, AND the result of a Vucevic trade (Franz). Three role players that were massively overrated because they wore a Magic jersey and people bought into this idea that guys could develop their way out of a inherently flawed roster.

Man it feels so good to be vindicated after years arguing with idiots that will now conveniently have amnesia or have left this board. I have the receipts. I know who you all are.

[VFX]

I wanted to make a thread about revisiting the lengths people went to argue against blowing up that team "because continuity was more important for culture" or whatever.

Lets see.

Fournier isn't in the nba anymore after being a bench/role player journeyman 5 years removed.
The Bulls are praying to move Vucevic because he was obviously fools gold and cant win with him as a 4th option.
AG is exactly what most of us knew. He's a role player and 4th option behind Jokic, Murray, and MPJ.

Orlando now has gained a lot more than these role players masquerading as "core" for almost a decade. None of this was/is surprising to people that knew what they were talking about.

Team was trash and it was never ending defense here for it. I should go back into the archive and laugh at those posts.

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Blowing it up and tanking is the ultimate high-risk move

Yeah, after 4-5 years of doing nothing with Hennigans leftovers.

[orlando_joe]

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Blowing it up and tanking is the ultimate high-risk move

Yeah, after 4-5 years of doing nothing with Hennigans leftovers.

to be fair he has been here 7 yrs blew it up 4 seasons ago and team made playoffs in 2 of the seasons before blowup.with pretty big ji injury in the middle.but hey carry on with petty trashing

[VFX]

Blowing it up and tanking is the ultimate high-risk move

Yeah, after 4-5 years of doing nothing with Hennigans leftovers.

to be fair he has been here 7 yrs blew it up 4 seasons ago and team made playoffs in 2 of the seasons before blowup..but hey carry on with petty trashing

Petty trashing?

Weltman took over in 2017 and traded Vucevic in March of 2021.

Orlando's playoff run led by guys under rookie scale contracts made it further in less time. I guess you really enjoyed those treadmill playoff years getting gentleman swept.

[Audi]

Yeah, after 4-5 years of doing nothing with Hennigans leftovers.

to be fair he has been here 7 yrs blew it up 4 seasons ago and team made playoffs in 2 of the seasons before blowup..but hey carry on with petty trashing

Petty trashing?

Weltman took over in 2017 and traded Vucevic in March of 2021.

Orlando's playoff run led by guys under rookie scale contracts made it further in less time. I guess you really enjoyed those treadmill playoff years getting gentleman swept.

He traded Vuc at literally the highest value he ever had or will ever have. For what ended up being one the better players we’ve had in decades.

Weltman & Co may be slower than most like, but they’ve made some good moves/picks and iirc, started cleaning house immediately with staff and then sending Elfrid and his hair packing.

[eyriq]

I highly doubt anybody argued that they are core in sense they should be best players, most people argued that team can add actual star as supporting cast was already there. But ofc, under Weltman any sort of higher risk move is off the table.

Blowing it up and tanking is the ultimate high-risk move

Yeah, after 4-5 years of doing nothing with Hennigans leftovers.

He polished the turd and won the internal political turf war. Guy deserves praise.

[VFX]

to be fair he has been here 7 yrs blew it up 4 seasons ago and team made playoffs in 2 of the seasons before blowup..but hey carry on with petty trashing

Petty trashing?

Weltman took over in 2017 and traded Vucevic in March of 2021.

Orlando's playoff run led by guys under rookie scale contracts made it further in less time. I guess you really enjoyed those treadmill playoff years getting gentleman swept.

He traded Vuc at literally the highest value he ever had or will ever have. For what ended up being one the better players we’ve had in decades.

Weltman & Co may be slower than most like, but they’ve made some good moves/picks and iirc, started cleaning house immediately with staff and then sending Elfrid and his hair packing.

Not really the point of the original statement.

You are praising the FO for doing what people argued for years was the wrong approach. Weltman gets credit for moving Vuc for the right package. Not for the 4 years he squandered until he had absolutely no other option but to pull the trigger.

In the summer of freaking 2020 we were having these arguments that moving any of those overrated role players wasn’t a good move because Fultz, Bamba, and Isaac had enough potential to forgo a tank/rebuild for a franchise cornerstone like Paolo.

[Skybox]

Petty trashing?

Weltman took over in 2017 and traded Vucevic in March of 2021.

Orlando's playoff run led by guys under rookie scale contracts made it further in less time. I guess you really enjoyed those treadmill playoff years getting gentleman swept.

He traded Vuc at literally the highest value he ever had or will ever have. For what ended up being one the better players we’ve had in decades.

Weltman & Co may be slower than most like, but they’ve made some good moves/picks and iirc, started cleaning house immediately with staff and then sending Elfrid and his hair packing.

Not really the point of the original statement.

You are praising the FO for doing what people argued for years was the wrong approach. Weltman gets credit for moving Vuc for the right package. Not for the 4 years he squandered until he had absolutely no other option but to pull the trigger.

In the summer of freaking 2020 we were having these arguments that moving any of those overrated role players wasn’t a good move because Fultz, Bamba, and Isaac had enough potential to forgo a tank/rebuild for a franchise cornerstone like Paolo.

2 of those years Vuc was an All-Star, then he got moved for an amazing haul...but don't let us slow your roll.

Nobody thought it was perfect but total disregard for Vuc is petty. He's declined steeply - so does everyone other than Lebron.