Ingram/Ayton/Okoro solutions in one trade

[slos]

Three team trade

Cavs in Ingram + fillers (Banton, Reath)
Cavs out Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Strus, 2030 swap, 2031 FRP

Pels in Ayton, 2030 swap with Cavs
Pels out Ingram

Blazers in Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Struss, CLE 2031 FRP
Blazers out Ayton + fillers (Banton, Reath)

Why Cleveland? They complete their starting 5 with another bordeline all star using every asset they have left. Ingram fills a need at SF and fits their timeline. This trade also saves them from the tax this season (they will be at 168 mil with 13 players) which is crucial to keep their core moving forward.

Garland........Porter.......Banton
Mitchell........Merrill......Tyson
Ingram.........Niang.......Jerome
Mobley.........Wade
Allen...........Reath

Why Pels? They desperately need a C, they need to move on from Ingram, they need to open minutes for Herb and Murphy. Swapping expiring Ingram for Ayton while getting a bit compansated with a future 1st swap just makes sense.

Murray........Alvarado
McCollum....Hawkins.......Reeves
Jones.........Murphy........Green
Zion...........Robinson......Matkovic
Ayton.........Missi...........Theis

Why Portland? It also makes sense to move on from Ayton after drafting Clingan with Timelord returning from his injury. They get paid with another future FRP while locking the SF position with Okoro (I have him signing at 4y/50mil) behind Avdija. Strus I guess is OK for some needed veteran leadership in their guards, LeVert here is just an expiring that along with Thybulle could become useful.

Henderson...Struss.......LeVert
Simons.......Sharpe......Rupert
Avdija........Okoro.......Thybulle
Grant........Murray.......Walker
Clingan......Williams.....Camara

[JJ_PR]

I would do this for Cleveland.

[JRoy]

Too good for POR, no way CLE goes for that.

[Godaddycurse]

Thats really rough for NOP

[mcfly1204]

Hard pass for Cleveland. No interest in shelling out for Ingram's next contract, and their bench looks like they might be competitive in the G League.

[Mavrelous]

Ayton is a negative value contract, he maybe treated as neutral if a team really needs a center (NOP), but not big positive like here...

[Crymson]

Three team trade

Cavs in Ingram + fillers (Banton, Reath)
Cavs out Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Strus, 2030 swap, 2031 FRP

Pels in Ayton, 2030 swap with Cavs
Pels out Ingram

Blazers in Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Struss, CLE 2031 FRP
Blazers out Ayton + fillers (Banton, Reath)

This trade might fly if someone from the Harry Potter universe could swear Ayton to an Unbreakable Vow that he'll actually work hard and play a winning game. A hardworking, team-focused Ayton could be a pretty darned good player.

Unfortunately for the Suns, the Blazers, and this trade idea, Unbreakable Vows are fictional and the real Ayton is neither a winning player nor worth trading Ingram for.

[JRoy]

Three team trade

Cavs in Ingram + fillers (Banton, Reath)
Cavs out Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Strus, 2030 swap, 2031 FRP

Pels in Ayton, 2030 swap with Cavs
Pels out Ingram

Blazers in Okoro (s/t), LeVert, Struss, CLE 2031 FRP
Blazers out Ayton + fillers (Banton, Reath)

This trade might fly if someone from the Harry Potter universe could swear Ayton to an Unbreakable Vow that he'll actually work hard and play a winning game. A hardworking, team-focused Ayton could be a pretty darned good player.

Unfortunately for the Suns, the Blazers, and this trade idea, Unbreakable Vows are fictional and the real Ayton is neither a winning player nor worth trading Ingram for.

I don’t know anything about Harry Potter, but I’ll bet he sets better screens than Ayton.

[RollingWave]

What's the current rule on S&T again? In previous CBAs I thought you couldn't aggregate it in trades that involve multiple players going out from the team with the guy that the player was on or something, also, for this to work, the S&T # has to be pretty high, can they do 1-2 year deals in S&Ts?

For example the Klay Thompson trade the Warriors only send out one player, and it was a 3 year deal.

For Cleveland, talent in talent out wise it make sense but fit and longer term viability might be dubious, a lot of eye of beholder and ownership commitment questions here.

Portland: getting a pick for Ayton is obviously a big win, though not if the Okoro deal end up being even more toxic.

For NOP: well, if you assume they're ok with being in the tax for one year, and/or they'll move Ayton after next year or something this is reasonable, if they're just gonna let them walk anyway might as well at least have them be playing reasonable positions, though Ayton + Zion would be hilarious in that its two guys that look like the Hulk but rebound like his sister together

[jbk1234]

Hard pass for Cleveland. No interest in shelling out for Ingram's next contract, and their bench looks like they might be competitive in the G League.

Yeah, there seems to be some type of cognitive disconnect as far as the Cavs being disinclined to sign Ingram to a vet max before you get compensation. They wouldn't even rent him at the cost of Strus whom they like and have locked up.

[louc1970]

The big issue for me is the NOP part of the trade. Ayton is not capable of stretching the defense at all, not even to the free throw line. Pairing him with Williamson creates area of 2 negative shooters.

[Scoot McGroot]

What's the current rule on S&T again? In previous CBAs I thought you couldn't aggregate it in trades that involve multiple players going out from the team with the guy that the player was on or something, also, for this to work, the S&T # has to be pretty high, can they do 1-2 year deals in S&Ts?

For example the Klay Thompson trade the Warriors only send out one player, and it was a 3 year deal.

You could always aggregate sign and trades in previous cba’s, and still can, but you have to deal with the possibility of a player being base year compensation, and the difficulties that might bring with it. Sign and trades require at least a 3 year deal, but only the first year has to be guaranteed. Player involved has to agree to the contract and trade as well.


Mostly though, this deal seems to put Portland into the tax unless Okoro signs for something like $7m or less (which, why would he if he can sign a QO for $11.8m in Cleveland right now?)

[JRoy]

The big issue for me is the NOP part of the trade. Ayton is not capable of stretching the defense at all, not even to the free throw line. Pairing him with Williamson creates area of 2 negative shooters.

That is just not true.

Ayton has plenty of flaws without having to make up more but he is an adequate mid range shooter.

[Scoot McGroot]

The big issue for me is the NOP part of the trade. Ayton is not capable of stretching the defense at all, not even to the free throw line. Pairing him with Williamson creates area of 2 negative shooters.

That is just not true.

Ayton has plenty of flaws without having to make up more but he is an adequate mid range shooter.

Sure, but to be fair, that doesn't really "stretch the floor", in practice. Hitting the mid range effectively is probably still a shot the defense would love to yield while allowing Ayton's defender to sag more into the paint and lessening the risk of attacks at the rim? Like, I think you're both right?

[slos]

What's the current rule on S&T again? In previous CBAs I thought you couldn't aggregate it in trades that involve multiple players going out from the team with the guy that the player was on or something, also, for this to work, the S&T # has to be pretty high, can they do 1-2 year deals in S&Ts?

For example the Klay Thompson trade the Warriors only send out one player, and it was a 3 year deal.

You could always aggregate sign and trades in previous cba’s, and still can, but you have to deal with the possibility of a player being base year compensation, and the difficulties that might bring with it. Sign and trades require at least a 3 year deal, but only the first year has to be guaranteed. Player involved has to agree to the contract and trade as well.


Mostly though, this deal seems to put Portland into the tax unless Okoro signs for something like $7m or less (which, why would he if he can sign a QO for $11.8m in Cleveland right now?)

Did the math and Portland can give up to 11,5 mil starting salary to Okoro in this deal (which is enough for a 4/50) without paying the tax.

[bgrep14]

Pretty easy no from Cleveland with the inclusion of Struss and a first with no commitment from Ingram. I'd likely do Okoro, Lavert, Niang, and a swap for Ingram.

[JRoy]

The big issue for me is the NOP part of the trade. Ayton is not capable of stretching the defense at all, not even to the free throw line. Pairing him with Williamson creates area of 2 negative shooters.

That is just not true.

Ayton has plenty of flaws without having to make up more but he is an adequate mid range shooter.

Sure, but to be fair, that doesn't really "stretch the floor", in practice. Hitting the mid range effectively is probably still a shot the defense would love to yield while allowing Ayton's defender to sag more into the paint and lessening the risk of attacks at the rim? Like, I think you're both right?

Sure, but to be fair, Ayton can shoot with some accuracy to the FT line and beyond, not extending to the 3 point line.

[Scoot McGroot]

What's the current rule on S&T again? In previous CBAs I thought you couldn't aggregate it in trades that involve multiple players going out from the team with the guy that the player was on or something, also, for this to work, the S&T # has to be pretty high, can they do 1-2 year deals in S&Ts?

For example the Klay Thompson trade the Warriors only send out one player, and it was a 3 year deal.

You could always aggregate sign and trades in previous cba’s, and still can, but you have to deal with the possibility of a player being base year compensation, and the difficulties that might bring with it. Sign and trades require at least a 3 year deal, but only the first year has to be guaranteed. Player involved has to agree to the contract and trade as well.


Mostly though, this deal seems to put Portland into the tax unless Okoro signs for something like $7m or less (which, why would he if he can sign a QO for $11.8m in Cleveland right now?)

Did the math and Portland can give up to 11,5 mil starting salary to Okoro in this deal (which is enough for a 4/50) without paying the tax.

Im being rough with the math, but I have the deal (with no fillers) putting them around $5-6m into the tax before accounting for any fillers. If it’s Banton and Reath, they’d still be $1-2m over the tax? Are you including the Bledsoe and Louzada dead salaries?

[Scoot McGroot]

That is just not true.

Ayton has plenty of flaws without having to make up more but he is an adequate mid range shooter.

Sure, but to be fair, that doesn't really "stretch the floor", in practice. Hitting the mid range effectively is probably still a shot the defense would love to yield while allowing Ayton's defender to sag more into the paint and lessening the risk of attacks at the rim? Like, I think you're both right?

Sure, but to be fair, Ayton can shoot with some accuracy to the FT line and beyond, not extending to the 3 point line.

Agreed. But that doesn’t really stretch the defense, or pull the defense out of the lane, as most teams are ok with yielding that kind of shot to the Blazers. Which is why I think you’re both right. Ayton may not be a negative shooter, but he won’t really stretch the defense, which is what I think NO is hoping for long term in a Zion pairing?

[jazzfan1971]

Seems too good for Portland.