YogurtProducer wrote:Scase wrote:billy_hoyle wrote:
But we have the same management and scouting staff that carried out the 2019 vision. They seem to be implementing a similiar strategy this time (i.e. no overt tanking).
They have a 100% success rate at building towards a 'chip.
Remember, many people last time heckled them and lambasted their strategy during that initial build cycle.
Are you part of the group that may be proven wrong again?
Hey guys, we have a 100% success rate with a sample size of one, that means it's basically a guaranteed chip, what could possibly go wrong.
You know, except this is nothing like how we got the chip, aside from not outright tanking.
So there is no treasure trove of assets that were used to build the championship team.
We traded 4 (DD/JV/JP/TR) players picked in the early to mid lotto, which we currently don't have.
We found 3 absolute steals (that allowed us to trade those lotto picked players) in Siakam/OG/FVV which we don't have, or even any players that would hint at that level of a ceiling.
We don't have a cast off PG that was making peanuts and happened to blossom into an extremely good player. Quite the opposite, we have a mostly known quantity, that is arguably overpaid, and realistically is very unlikely to take a significant jump in his game considering he's already close to a 20/7/5 player since being here, and showed about the same as a starter on the Knicks.
We don't have a player (Rudy) that management had flung off the team with the intent to tank, but had it backfire and actually make the team better.
There is essentially nothing to suggest this team has anything in common with the building blocks of the championship team, except the fact that they also aren't tanking.
But cool, start planning the parade I guess? It's fine if you think this team has potential, everyone sees different things, we may not agree, but I can understand the optimism. But there is no need to just make completely off base comparisons, and use one of the most outlier of outliers as an example of repeatable success.
We don't have a FO that is magic, so many random things had to go absolutely perfect to get that chip, much like a lot of teams who won, but ours was such an unlikely path to it, that acting like it's repeatable is just delusional. The vast majority of championship teams are built off of superstars that have been drafted in the top 5, with a few a couple spots later, and then a very small minority in the later 1st round.
There are mountains of data to support this, I get the whole "hope" thing, but this borders on blissful ignorance.
Jeez man. It is actually impressive how much misinformation you are able to spread so confidently.We traded 4 (DD/JV/JP/TR) players picked in the early to mid lotto, which we currently don't have.
Scottie Barnes, Gradey Dick, RJ Barrett, Jakob Poeltl. 4 Players picked in the lottery. All of whom may or may not be moved in the future.We found 3 absolute steals (that allowed us to trade those lotto picked players) in Siakam/OG/FVV which we don't have, or even any players that would hint at that level of a ceiling.
Why are you comparing our asset base in 2018 after 5 years of playoff losses and accumulation of assets to our current asset base? Our roster as it is configured now is closer to the 2012 or 2013 Raptors than the 2018 Raptors. In 3 or 4 years time when our 2024 draft picks (plus 2025, plus two in 2026) are more known we will be able to make this comparison. Sorry - but this is a disingenuous as **** argument.We don't have a cast off PG that was making peanuts and happened to blossom into an extremely good player. Quite the opposite, we have a mostly known quantity, that is arguably overpaid, and realistically is very unlikely to take a significant jump in his game considering he's already close to a 20/7/5 player since being here, and showed about the same as a starter on the Knicks.
You just talk out your ass constantly. Lowry in 2014/15 was the 47th highest paid player in the NBA. IQ is currently... 46th! By 2017/18, before we got Kawhi, Lowry was 6th in the league in salary.
Also crazy how 26 year old Lowry when we got him in 2012 wasn't a known commodity (despite starting 109 of his last 123 games in Houston), but a 24 year old IQ is despite having 27 career starts prior to coming here.We don't have a player (Rudy) that management had flung off the team with the intent to tank, but had it backfire and actually make the team better.
So? Why does this even matter?
YogurtProducer wrote:Scase wrote:billy_hoyle wrote:
But we have the same management and scouting staff that carried out the 2019 vision. They seem to be implementing a similiar strategy this time (i.e. no overt tanking).
They have a 100% success rate at building towards a 'chip.
Remember, many people last time heckled them and lambasted their strategy during that initial build cycle.
Are you part of the group that may be proven wrong again?
Hey guys, we have a 100% success rate with a sample size of one, that means it's basically a guaranteed chip, what could possibly go wrong.
You know, except this is nothing like how we got the chip, aside from not outright tanking.
So there is no treasure trove of assets that were used to build the championship team.
We traded 4 (DD/JV/JP/TR) players picked in the early to mid lotto, which we currently don't have.
We found 3 absolute steals (that allowed us to trade those lotto picked players) in Siakam/OG/FVV which we don't have, or even any players that would hint at that level of a ceiling.
We don't have a cast off PG that was making peanuts and happened to blossom into an extremely good player. Quite the opposite, we have a mostly known quantity, that is arguably overpaid, and realistically is very unlikely to take a significant jump in his game considering he's already close to a 20/7/5 player since being here, and showed about the same as a starter on the Knicks.
We don't have a player (Rudy) that management had flung off the team with the intent to tank, but had it backfire and actually make the team better.
There is essentially nothing to suggest this team has anything in common with the building blocks of the championship team, except the fact that they also aren't tanking.
But cool, start planning the parade I guess? It's fine if you think this team has potential, everyone sees different things, we may not agree, but I can understand the optimism. But there is no need to just make completely off base comparisons, and use one of the most outlier of outliers as an example of repeatable success.
We don't have a FO that is magic, so many random things had to go absolutely perfect to get that chip, much like a lot of teams who won, but ours was such an unlikely path to it, that acting like it's repeatable is just delusional. The vast majority of championship teams are built off of superstars that have been drafted in the top 5, with a few a couple spots later, and then a very small minority in the later 1st round.
There are mountains of data to support this, I get the whole "hope" thing, but this borders on blissful ignorance.
Jeez man. It is actually impressive how much misinformation you are able to spread so confidently.We traded 4 (DD/JV/JP/TR) players picked in the early to mid lotto, which we currently don't have.
Scottie Barnes, Gradey Dick, RJ Barrett, Jakob Poeltl. 4 Players picked in the lottery. All of whom may or may not be moved in the future.We found 3 absolute steals (that allowed us to trade those lotto picked players) in Siakam/OG/FVV which we don't have, or even any players that would hint at that level of a ceiling.
Why are you comparing our asset base in 2018 after 5 years of playoff losses and accumulation of assets to our current asset base? Our roster as it is configured now is closer to the 2012 or 2013 Raptors than the 2018 Raptors. In 3 or 4 years time when our 2024 draft picks (plus 2025, plus two in 2026) are more known we will be able to make this comparison. Sorry - but this is a disingenuous as **** argument.We don't have a cast off PG that was making peanuts and happened to blossom into an extremely good player. Quite the opposite, we have a mostly known quantity, that is arguably overpaid, and realistically is very unlikely to take a significant jump in his game considering he's already close to a 20/7/5 player since being here, and showed about the same as a starter on the Knicks.
You just talk out your ass constantly. Lowry in 2014/15 was the 47th highest paid player in the NBA. IQ is currently... 46th! By 2017/18, before we got Kawhi, Lowry was 6th in the league in salary.
Also crazy how 26 year old Lowry when we got him in 2012 wasn't a known commodity (despite starting 109 of his last 123 games in Houston), but a 24 year old IQ is despite having 27 career starts prior to coming here.We don't have a player (Rudy) that management had flung off the team with the intent to tank, but had it backfire and actually make the team better.
So? Why does this even matter?
This was a beautiful response to his drivel and saved a bunch of people time in having to point out his errors. As I was reading my mind went:
Yes we do....to the 4 lotto guys
The steals....No one is saying we are the 2018 Raps...we are just the beginning stages of gathering assets. Maybe the steals were just drafted...or come from the 4 good picks we have the next 2 drafts. Things don't need to be exact.
The castaway PG? We JUST traded for IQ...but my mind went to RJ who was viewed as a castaway that we could turn into a valuable piece later on...by keeping(Lowry) or dealing(DD).
Rudy...agreed...who cares.
Now knowing he has you blocked is even better.