Chicago Sky/WNBA thread 2024

[Almost Retired]

The things that Barkley says happened did not happen. That is not a differing opinion. It is a falsehood.

You are entitled to your opinion. Other are entitled to their own opinions. But one woman has been on the receiving end of 17% of all the fragrant fouls given out by the league. Virtually all of them committed by black players who are so jealous of Clark's success that it eats them up inside. So maybe it isn't racism. Maybe it's just old fashioned jealousy.

Have you watched the fouls?

If you have, it's pretty hard to come away with an opinion that they were targeting. This is one of those things where a data point might imply a thing, but even superficial investigation would show you that the data point is not in fact evidence of that thing.

FWIW, I do think there is definitely some extra animosity towards Clark from some players and the reasons for that animosity likely come from a wide array of reasons, but the conclusion that animosity has turned into something she is uniquely facing physically doesn't seem baked up to me by the flagrant fouls when you look at the fouls themselves.

Is it possible the league wants to play her more physically as a whole because they think that's the best way to defend her? Certainly wouldn't be the first time a young superstar was defended with extra physicality because it was the most effective tool to use against them, but I don't think she's been the victim of a bunch of dirty plays which is what is often implied.

There about 144 players in the WNBA. One player has been on the receiving end of 17% of all the flagrant fouls called. For it to be a random set of events has to be like a 2 or 3 sigma probability. Some of the fouls might have been considered actual basketball plays. Many of them were not basketball plays, just attempts to knock her down and perhaps cause an injury. We can't know the mind set of the perpetrators. We can only surmise. Could be race. Could be sexuality. Could be just plain old jealousy. Or maybe a combo platter. But it has happened. Clark has handled it with more diplomacy than most would. I would have been throwing fists if another player had blindsided me away from the ball as has happened with that foul by Chennedy Carter a while back.

[dougthonus]

There about 144 players in the WNBA. One player has been on the receiving end of 17% of all the flagrant fouls called. For it to be a random set of events has to be like a 2 or 3 sigma probability. Some of the fouls might have been considered actual basketball plays. Many of them were not basketball plays, just attempts to knock her down and perhaps cause an injury.

To say "some of the fouls might have been considered actual basketball plays but many of them were not basketball plays" implies strongly that you have not watched the fouls and aren't even aware of how many there were. I posted the link in this thread where you can watch all 5 back to back.

But real quick:
#1: (Landing zone) Probably a bad call on making it a flagrant, Clark has an unnatural jump, the defender was clearly not reckless
#2: Flagrant and definitely personal
#3: Attempt at a basketball play, worthy of a flagrant but not physically brutal, and would be a huge stretch to call it targeting
#4: (landing zone foul) Probably a 50/50 on whether it should be a flagrant, but clearly an attempt at a basketball play and clearly not targeting
#5: Not really a basketball play, but the foul cost the Sky the game and clearly was not time to "send a message", and DeShields attempts to pull up and lessen contact and help Clark up and was also clearly not targeting or personal

We can't know the mind set of the perpetrators. We can only surmise. Could be race. Could be sexuality. Could be just plain old jealousy. Or maybe a combo platter. But it has happened. Clark has handled it with more diplomacy than most would. I would have been throwing fists if another player had blindsided me away from the ball as has happened with that foul by Chennedy Carter a while back.

The mindset of the perpetrators was stop Clark from scoring in 3 of the plays, stop a fast break in one of them. There's literally only one foul in the 5 that required any diplomacy and that was the one you mentioned, but FWIW, I agree, Clark's quite media savvy in all ways and very diplomatic whenever that is required and seems like a fine person that goes out of her way to calm things down rather than ramp them up in terms of the narrative.

And also FWIW, I love Clark, like many others, she's probably the sole reason I'm watching women's basketball. No reason to exaggerate the reality of what has happened. The reality is that Clark has been the victim of one cheap shot that I'm aware of this season. In that singular instance, 20 seconds before the cheap shot, Clark is in the face trash talking the person who delivers it.

That doesn't make Carter correct for cheap shotting her, but I've seen no evidence that there is a bunch of premeditated "we've got to get her" stuff either. I do believe (as I noted) there are definitely some players who are jealous / dislike her for all kinds of reasons, but that hasn't resulted in her getting hit with a bunch of cheap shots, and is also probably not unique for someone coming into the league with her amount of hype.

[Almost Retired]

There about 144 players in the WNBA. One player has been on the receiving end of 17% of all the flagrant fouls called. For it to be a random set of events has to be like a 2 or 3 sigma probability. Some of the fouls might have been considered actual basketball plays. Many of them were not basketball plays, just attempts to knock her down and perhaps cause an injury.

To say "some of the fouls might have been considered actual basketball plays but many of them were not basketball plays" implies strongly that you have not watched the fouls and aren't even aware of how many there were. I posted the link in this thread where you can watch all 5 back to back.

But real quick:
#1: (Landing zone) Probably a bad call on making it a flagrant, Clark has an unnatural jump, the defender was clearly not reckless
#2: Flagrant and definitely personal
#3: Attempt at a basketball play, worthy of a flagrant but not physically brutal, and would be a huge stretch to call it targeting
#4: (landing zone foul) Probably a 50/50 on whether it should be a flagrant, but clearly an attempt at a basketball play and clearly not targeting
#5: Not really a basketball play, but the foul cost the Sky the game and clearly was not time to "send a message", and DeShields attempts to pull up and lessen contact and help Clark up and was also clearly not targeting or personal

We can't know the mind set of the perpetrators. We can only surmise. Could be race. Could be sexuality. Could be just plain old jealousy. Or maybe a combo platter. But it has happened. Clark has handled it with more diplomacy than most would. I would have been throwing fists if another player had blindsided me away from the ball as has happened with that foul by Chennedy Carter a while back.

The mindset of the perpetrators was stop Clark from scoring in 3 of the plays, stop a fast break in one of them. There's literally only one foul in the 5 that required any diplomacy and that was the one you mentioned, but FWIW, I agree, Clark's quite media savvy in all ways and very diplomatic whenever that is required and seems like a fine person that goes out of her way to calm things down rather than ramp them up in terms of the narrative.

And also FWIW, I love Clark, like many others, she's probably the sole reason I'm watching women's basketball. No reason to exaggerate the reality of what has happened. The reality is that Clark has been the victim of one cheap shot that I'm aware of this season. In that singular instance, 20 seconds before the cheap shot, Clark is in the face trash talking the person who delivers it.

That doesn't make Carter correct for cheap shotting her, but I've seen no evidence that there is a bunch of premeditated "we've got to get her" stuff either. I do believe (as I noted) there are definitely some players who are jealous / dislike her for all kinds of reasons, but that hasn't resulted in her getting hit with a bunch of cheap shots, and is also probably not unique for someone coming into the league with her amount of hype.

For what it's worth if I was a WNBA Vet with years in the league earning less than $200 k a year and no endorsements and I saw this upstart come in and bag deals with Wilson Sporting Goods, State Farm, Gatorade, Nike, Bose, Buick, Hy-Vee, H&R Block, Topps, Goldman Sachs, etc. not to mention her NIL money and net worth already at @ $4 Million and I'd be hellava jealous. Human nature being what it is.

[kodo]

It's odd because MJ had the same endorsement and league-wide popularity impact (TBH, bigger than Caitlin) and NBA players didn't treat MJ this way. They generally respected MJ and loved that he was proving NBA players could/should earn huge endorsement deals.

[_txchilibowl_]

It's odd because MJ had the same endorsement and league-wide popularity impact (TBH, bigger than Caitlin) and NBA players didn't treat MJ this way. They generally respected MJ and loved that he was proving NBA players could/should earn huge endorsement deals.

They liked him so much they iced him out at the All-Star game.

[dougthonus]

For what it's worth if I was a WNBA Vet with years in the league earning less than $200 k a year and no endorsements and I saw this upstart come in and bag deals with Wilson Sporting Goods, State Farm, Gatorade, Nike, Bose, Buick, Hy-Vee, H&R Block, Topps, Goldman Sachs, etc. not to mention her NIL money and net worth already at @ $4 Million and I'd be hellava jealous. Human nature being what it is.

I'm sure there are people who are jealous. I'm sure there are past players who were generational talents that made 1/10th in their whole career what Clark has already bagged today, and I could see why such a person would be jealous in that boat.

There's a huge gap between being jealous, thinking something isn't fair, and deciding to physically enact punishment on someone though. I think lots of people in life got unfairly good deals. I'm not throwing punches at them. I'm sure lots of people could look at me and say I got an unfairly good deal. No one is trying to physically maul me.

I walked you through the details of every single one of the flagrant fouls on Clark and posted the video of them. There's no evidence of targeting based on those fouls. If there is some other evidence of targeting not related to those fouls, I'm happy to look at some video examples, but I haven't seen any, and given every thing related to Clark on this topic goes insanely viral, I find it unlikely that it exists and I haven't seen it.

[Shill]

Lynx are playing the best ball in the league right now.

[Ccwatercraft]

Watching games in standard def on cable sux

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[Jeffster81]

Read on Twitter

It's good that Angel Reese is out, it now gives Caitlyn Clark a legit shot at ROY. /sarcasm

[kodo]

Yep she's a Chicago baller alright.

[Almost Retired]

Joakim Noah chimes in: https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2024/09/07/nba-vet-says-fever-must-sign-enforcer-to-protect-caitlin-clark/

[Michael Jackson]

Aren’t most of the flagrant from the sky? Is this just a case of the Jordan rules and this time we are the Pistons?

[jc23]

Aren’t most of the flagrant from the sky? Is this just a case of the Jordan rules and this time we are the Pistons?

Watch on YouTube

made me think of this. man, i use to watch the hell out of this vhs.

[Michael Jackson]

Aren’t most of the flagrant from the sky? Is this just a case of the Jordan rules and this time we are the Pistons?

Watch on YouTube

made me think of this. man, i use to watch the hell out of this vhs.

That victory though is still my fav Bulls moment. More than any championship.

[Hangtime84]

I do not think Angel is very talented at basketball and if she doesn’t improve her game she will be a bench rotational player at best. She has a high motor but horrible touch around the basket and poor coordination.

I fear with this extra down rehab time she has she will simply just pursue more off court activities instead of improving her game.

[Hangtime84]

Aren’t most of the flagrant from the sky? Is this just a case of the Jordan rules and this time we are the Pistons?

3 out of grand total of 5.

[Jeffster81]

I do not think Angel is very talented at basketball and if she doesn’t improve her game she will be a bench rotational player at best. She has a high motor but horrible touch around the basket and poor coordination.

I fear with this extra down rehab time she has she will simply just pursue more off court activities instead of improving her game.

Oh Angel is most definitely a talented player, arguably the 2nd most talented player from last year draft class. The issue is....she is still extremely raw and immature. Get her to focus of strengthen her weakness and grow more mature as a player and person, her sky (no pun intended) is the limited. But she is most definitely a boom or bust pick.

[_txchilibowl_]

Even if Reese never improves a thing she's still a starter based on her rebounding prowess alone.

[madvillian]

I do not think Angel is very talented at basketball and if she doesn’t improve her game she will be a bench rotational player at best. She has a high motor but horrible touch around the basket and poor coordination.

I fear with this extra down rehab time she has she will simply just pursue more off court activities instead of improving her game.

Not quite as down on her as a rotational player but I agree otherwise. Her statement rubbed me the wrong way she's talking about taking a physical and mental break and meanwhile her team is in free fall and barely hanging onto the last playoff spot. Just not really what you want to hear from a supposed team leader. Some Zach vibes with his foot and "getting right" and putting whatever they want ahead of the team.

Also the talk about shooting more threes, what? Just focus on improving your league worst finishing around the rim! Tyrus Thomas vibes when he was talking about his playmaking and perimeter prowess.