Nuggets Extend Jamal Murray $208 Million/4 Years

[Alatan]

Braun will be a more impactful player than KCP.
Nuggets are in a same tier of contenders with some other teams after tier I where is only Boston.
Paying max a player who makes the best duo with the best player in the league is reasonable thing to do

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

[MarcusBrody]

Braun will be a more impactful player than KCP.
Nuggets are in a same tier of contenders with some other teams after tier I where is only Boston.
Paying max a player who makes the best duo with the best player in the league is reasonable thing to do

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

[AleksandarN]

Braun will be a more impactful player than KCP.
Nuggets are in a same tier of contenders with some other teams after tier I where is only Boston.
Paying max a player who makes the best duo with the best player in the league is reasonable thing to do

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Can’t shoot? What did he shoot from 3 this year? I mean did you even watch CB play this year?

[BelgradeNugget]

Braun will be a more impactful player than KCP.
Nuggets are in a same tier of contenders with some other teams after tier I where is only Boston.
Paying max a player who makes the best duo with the best player in the league is reasonable thing to do

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

I agree that playing with Jokic will make Braun look even better, but let's compare their stats from last year per 36 mins

Player A: 13/6.7/2.9 with 1.7 stocks, shooting 46/38.4/69.4 with 1.4-3.6 from 3
Player B: 11.5/2.7/2.7 with 2.1 stocks, shooting 46/40.6/89.4 with 1.9-4.6 from 3

Player A is Christian Braun, player B is KCP. So even after playing with Jokic a lot less than KCP his per 36 stats are better. KCP is regarded as volume 3pt shooter, but per 36 he takes 1 more 3pt shot per game and makes 0.5 more. Defensively stoo already made good comparation of their advantages and disadvantages

As for next player that is going to replace Braun off the bench Nuggets are high on Julian Strawther. He could be disaster or great fit off the bench. Last season his net rating was -9.8 in the range with Jordan and Nnaji. Nuggets were better when they replaced him with Justin Holiday who had 3.7 net. Next worst after Strawther was Peyton Watson with -0.7. But the good thing is Peyton Watson also had netrtg of -12 the year before as rookie and improved. If Strawther makes similar leap Nuggets are in a good place. And Strawther's profile as volume 3pt shooter/scorrer better fit 2nd unit than Braun who is super role player. So we will have to wait and see.

[Alatan]

Braun will be a more impactful player than KCP.
Nuggets are in a same tier of contenders with some other teams after tier I where is only Boston.
Paying max a player who makes the best duo with the best player in the league is reasonable thing to do

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

You cant compare percecntages without regards to volume and shot quality. Braun mostly shoots open, corner threes, he shoots them on a low volume and he is really inconsistent with them. Thats why teams dont respect his shooting ability and cheat of of him to close the paint. Ergo he cant shoot.

The quality of his shoots will imporve next to Jokic but he is already struggling to hit OPEN threes.

Dont get mi wrong i like Braun but he doesnt replace what KCP brought to the Nuggets and that was THREE and d.

[MarcusBrody]

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

You cant compare percecntages without regards to volume and shot quality. Braun mostly shoots open, corner threes, he shoots them on a low volume and he is really inconsistent with them. Thats why teams dont respect his shooting ability and cheat of of him to close the paint. Ergo he cant shoot.

The quality of his shoots will imporve next to Jokic but he is already struggling to hit OPEN threes.

Dont get mi wrong i like Braun but he doesnt replace what KCP brought to the Nuggets and that was THREE and d.

Braun shot a lower percentage of his 3s from the corner than KCP did last year. And almost basically the same percentage of their 3 point attempts were "wide open" according to the NBA's tracking stats (Braun was actually slightly lower).

Braun did shoot relatively poorly from the corner, but he took less than one corner three a game, so it's hard to really tell how much might be variation in a 50 shot per season sample. He will need to shoot better from that zone to fill the KCP role exactly, but he actually shot better than KCP above the break last year.

[wco81]

Look at Braun's playoff shooting percentages.

He's going to be under pressure to produce. Not saying he can't but so far in his young career, he's made some plays in the playoffs but it remains to be seen if he could be a good starter.

Booth boasted that he was drafting good rotation players so that boast will be put to the test.

[MarcusBrody]

Look at Braun's playoff shooting percentages.

He's going to be under pressure to produce. Not saying he can't but so far in his young career, he's made some plays in the playoffs but it remains to be seen if he could be a good starter.

Booth boasted that he was drafting good rotation players so that boast will be put to the test.

He shot pretty terribly from three this playoffs, but he only took 18 3p shots. It's hard to conclude much from that.

As I said upthread, I'm not excited that KCP left and I don't think that the Nuggets really have adequate replacements, but I also don't think that Braun is the issue. It's the guys behind him moving into his former minutes while he moves into KCP's.

[Duke4life831]

Denver had to make this deal because of the way contracts are in the NBA. But I think this ends up being a bad deal.

Youre basically paying a premium cap hit to an 8 year pro, but just for 2 playoff runs in that 8 year career.

We're talking a 39 game sample size in those 2 playoff runs vs 505 game sample size (regular season and his 1st and last playoff run). That 505 game sample size, Murray has been a sub all star level player. This is also while playing in arguably the easiest #2 role in the entire NBA.

I know his 2 man game with Jokic is very hard to stop in the playoffs. But the question is, how much of that is because of Murray and how much of it is because of Jokic. What happens if you take a guy that has made 1-3 all star games but not considered All NBA talent. And you give him that #2 role that Murray has next to Jokic. Does that 2 man game get even better? Does that guy playing in such an easy situation go from an all star to a legit All NBA guy?

That 39 game sample size over 8 years isnt close to being big enough for me to make Murray a 50 mil a year guy (30% of the cap).

[SelfishPlayer]

Why is this a bad deal? It's absolutely impossible for Denver to sign a free agent better than Jamal Murray.

[oaf54]

I think it's a great deal. Murray with Jokic is basketball peanut butter and jelly. If Murray is healthy the Nuggets are contenders. The Nuggets still have depth issues to address but he needed to be locked up. He's also historically one of the best playoff performers so this is worth doing. Murray is way too underrated.

[MarcusBrody]

Why is this a bad deal? It's absolutely impossible for Denver to sign a free agent better than Jamal Murray.

That was the rub. They had the choice to either 1. Sign him for the max now 2. Try to get him to sign a sub max deal now and wait to extend until the end of the season if he doesn't, assuming no one else will value him at the max.

I don't think people are advocating that the Nuggets let Murray leave, just play hardball and try to resign him at the 40-45 million a year range to preserve and extra 5-10 million before they hit the second apron.

[HMFFL]

I think it's a great deal. Murray with Jokic is basketball peanut butter and jelly. If Murray is healthy the Nuggets are contenders. The Nuggets still have depth issues to address but he needed to be locked up. He's also historically one of the best playoff performers so this is worth doing. Murray is way too underrated.

I concur.
Other players can be moved to improve the team. MPJ's contract is more of a concern than Murray's. We'll see what type of ownership the Nuggets have because they need more pieces to win since winning a .

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[TheHartBreakKid]

Financially, It's not the best deal, but I think it's something they had to do.

[PushDaRock]

Braun cant shoot and will kill the spacing alongside Gordon and Westbrook.

Anyone next to Jokic is a tremendous duo and any decently capable guard next to Jokic is a one of the best duos in the NBA. Murray is nothing special. He is a run of the mill chucker that can get hot sometimes and gets freedom to shoot thanks to Jokics gravity. Put him on any other team and he would be worse than DAngello Russel. Now that injuries zapped him of most of his already limited athletic ability he will be TRASH!

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

I agree that playing with Jokic will make Braun look even better, but let's compare their stats from last year per 36 mins

Player A: 13/6.7/2.9 with 1.7 stocks, shooting 46/38.4/69.4 with 1.4-3.6 from 3
Player B: 11.5/2.7/2.7 with 2.1 stocks, shooting 46/40.6/89.4 with 1.9-4.6 from 3

Player A is Christian Braun, player B is KCP. So even after playing with Jokic a lot less than KCP his per 36 stats are better. KCP is regarded as volume 3pt shooter, but per 36 he takes 1 more 3pt shot per game and makes 0.5 more. Defensively stoo already made good comparation of their advantages and disadvantages

As for next player that is going to replace Braun off the bench Nuggets are high on Julian Strawther. He could be disaster or great fit off the bench. Last season his net rating was -9.8 in the range with Jordan and Nnaji. Nuggets were better when they replaced him with Justin Holiday who had 3.7 net. Next worst after Strawther was Peyton Watson with -0.7. But the good thing is Peyton Watson also had netrtg of -12 the year before as rookie and improved. If Strawther makes similar leap Nuggets are in a good place. And Strawther's profile as volume 3pt shooter/scorrer better fit 2nd unit than Braun who is super role player. So we will have to wait and see.

Denver really has some funky on/off splits because of how dominant Jokic is when he's on the floor. It makes all the non Jokic minutes look terrible, basically only the 5 starters had a positive on/off split. Murray ended up having the worst on/off of the starters because presumably he played the most non Jokic minutes among them.

I also think KCP is probably replaceable because he didn't take as many 3's as his reputation would indicate. Still, Braun needs to actually take and make those 3's that he will get playing with Jokic. It's still shaky whether that 38% from last year will translate over, he hasn't made many 3's over his 2 years and the FT % at 67% isn't what you want to see from a shooter.

[phanman]

I voted bad deal just based on timing and circumstance. Injuries plagued his finish against the Timberwolves in the playoffs and even after 2+ months of recovery/rehab in the offseason the guy looked like a certified scrub for Team Canada. He had no bounce in his game and honestly looked he was 37 vs 27 and about to enter his prime.

I really don't see the risk in having him prove himself again this year. There aren't exactly a ton of contenders next year with the cap space to steal him away from Denver. Plus if he does have a Murray-like year again, it's hard to envision him leaving Jokic if Denver comes with a max contract again.

[BelgradeNugget]

Look at Braun's playoff shooting percentages.

He's going to be under pressure to produce. Not saying he can't but so far in his young career, he's made some plays in the playoffs but it remains to be seen if he could be a good starter.

Booth boasted that he was drafting good rotation players so that boast will be put to the test.

He shot pretty terribly from three this playoffs, but he only took 18 3p shots. It's hard to conclude much from that.

As I said upthread, I'm not excited that KCP left and I don't think that the Nuggets really have adequate replacements, but I also don't think that Braun is the issue. It's the guys behind him moving into his former minutes while he moves into KCP's.

Again per 36 minute stats in the playoffs

Player A: 10.8/5.6/1.6 with 1.3 stocks, shooting 42.6/22.2/68.8 with 0.7-3.2 from 3
Player B: 8.3/3/2.7 with 1.9 stocks, shooting 39.5/32.7/100 with 1.5-4.7 from 3

Player A is Christian Braun, player B is KCP. Braun wasn't good in the playoffs, but look at KCP's stats. And Braun was much better defender on Ant than KCP.

[BelgradeNugget]

Braun shot 38% from 3 last year. That's below KCP's 40%, but not in the realm of "can't shoot". He was also a second year player, so the Nuggets can hope he improves more.

Edit: In KCP's second season, he shot 34.5%. In his 22 year old season (same age as Braun last year but 3rd season), he shot 30.9%.

And to your point about any decent guard looking good next to Jokic: KCP played 91% of his minutes with Jokic last year. Braun played 47%. His most common running partners were Payton Watson and Reggie Jackson. It's not hard to imagine that some more of the statistical difference between KCP and Braun disappears when suddenly Braun is getting all those looks from Jokic.

All that being said, I do think the loss of KCP is significant, but more because of the players filling the next opening on the vacancy chain rather than because of Braun starting in KCP's place.

I agree that playing with Jokic will make Braun look even better, but let's compare their stats from last year per 36 mins

Player A: 13/6.7/2.9 with 1.7 stocks, shooting 46/38.4/69.4 with 1.4-3.6 from 3
Player B: 11.5/2.7/2.7 with 2.1 stocks, shooting 46/40.6/89.4 with 1.9-4.6 from 3

Player A is Christian Braun, player B is KCP. So even after playing with Jokic a lot less than KCP his per 36 stats are better. KCP is regarded as volume 3pt shooter, but per 36 he takes 1 more 3pt shot per game and makes 0.5 more. Defensively stoo already made good comparation of their advantages and disadvantages

As for next player that is going to replace Braun off the bench Nuggets are high on Julian Strawther. He could be disaster or great fit off the bench. Last season his net rating was -9.8 in the range with Jordan and Nnaji. Nuggets were better when they replaced him with Justin Holiday who had 3.7 net. Next worst after Strawther was Peyton Watson with -0.7. But the good thing is Peyton Watson also had netrtg of -12 the year before as rookie and improved. If Strawther makes similar leap Nuggets are in a good place. And Strawther's profile as volume 3pt shooter/scorrer better fit 2nd unit than Braun who is super role player. So we will have to wait and see.

Denver really has some funky on/off splits because of how dominant Jokic is when he's on the floor. It makes all the non Jokic minutes look terrible, basically only the 5 starters had a positive on/off split. Murray ended up having the worst on/off of the starters because presumably he played the most non Jokic minutes among them.

I also think KCP is probably replaceable because he didn't take as many 3's as his reputation would indicate. Still, Braun needs to actually take and make those 3's that he will get playing with Jokic. It's still shaky whether that 38% from last year will translate over, he hasn't made many 3's over his 2 years and the FT % at 67% isn't what you want to see from a shooter.

Actually these are Nuggets net ratings in this playoffs

Justin Holiday 9.0
Christian Braun 3.0
Nikola Jokic 2.0
Reggie Jackson 1.2
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 0.9
Michael Porter Jr. -1.3
Jamal Murray -2.9
Aaron Gordon -3.9
Peyton Watson -17.3

[PushDaRock]

I agree that playing with Jokic will make Braun look even better, but let's compare their stats from last year per 36 mins

Player A: 13/6.7/2.9 with 1.7 stocks, shooting 46/38.4/69.4 with 1.4-3.6 from 3
Player B: 11.5/2.7/2.7 with 2.1 stocks, shooting 46/40.6/89.4 with 1.9-4.6 from 3

Player A is Christian Braun, player B is KCP. So even after playing with Jokic a lot less than KCP his per 36 stats are better. KCP is regarded as volume 3pt shooter, but per 36 he takes 1 more 3pt shot per game and makes 0.5 more. Defensively stoo already made good comparation of their advantages and disadvantages

As for next player that is going to replace Braun off the bench Nuggets are high on Julian Strawther. He could be disaster or great fit off the bench. Last season his net rating was -9.8 in the range with Jordan and Nnaji. Nuggets were better when they replaced him with Justin Holiday who had 3.7 net. Next worst after Strawther was Peyton Watson with -0.7. But the good thing is Peyton Watson also had netrtg of -12 the year before as rookie and improved. If Strawther makes similar leap Nuggets are in a good place. And Strawther's profile as volume 3pt shooter/scorrer better fit 2nd unit than Braun who is super role player. So we will have to wait and see.

Denver really has some funky on/off splits because of how dominant Jokic is when he's on the floor. It makes all the non Jokic minutes look terrible, basically only the 5 starters had a positive on/off split. Murray ended up having the worst on/off of the starters because presumably he played the most non Jokic minutes among them.

I also think KCP is probably replaceable because he didn't take as many 3's as his reputation would indicate. Still, Braun needs to actually take and make those 3's that he will get playing with Jokic. It's still shaky whether that 38% from last year will translate over, he hasn't made many 3's over his 2 years and the FT % at 67% isn't what you want to see from a shooter.

Actually these are Nuggets net ratings in this playoffs

Justin Holiday 9.0
Christian Braun 3.0
Nikola Jokic 2.0
Reggie Jackson 1.2
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 0.9
Michael Porter Jr. -1.3
Jamal Murray -2.9
Aaron Gordon -3.9
Peyton Watson -17.3

I am talking about on/off per 100 not on court per 100 or NRTG. Jokic was a +20 in the regular season and +20.8 in the playoffs. I am saying the team is so much better when Jokic is on the floor that it makes for some crazy numbers.

[BelgradeNugget]

Denver really has some funky on/off splits because of how dominant Jokic is when he's on the floor. It makes all the non Jokic minutes look terrible, basically only the 5 starters had a positive on/off split. Murray ended up having the worst on/off of the starters because presumably he played the most non Jokic minutes among them.

I also think KCP is probably replaceable because he didn't take as many 3's as his reputation would indicate. Still, Braun needs to actually take and make those 3's that he will get playing with Jokic. It's still shaky whether that 38% from last year will translate over, he hasn't made many 3's over his 2 years and the FT % at 67% isn't what you want to see from a shooter.

Actually these are Nuggets net ratings in this playoffs

Justin Holiday 9.0
Christian Braun 3.0
Nikola Jokic 2.0
Reggie Jackson 1.2
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 0.9
Michael Porter Jr. -1.3
Jamal Murray -2.9
Aaron Gordon -3.9
Peyton Watson -17.3

I am talking about on/off per 100 not on court per 100 or NRTG. Jokic was a +20 in the regular season and +20.8 in the playoffs. I am saying the team is so much better when Jokic is on the floor that it makes for some crazy numbers.

I agree with your take how playing with Jokic can inflate players stats but I just wanted to point how, although Christian Braun didn't play with Jokic as many minutes as KCP did, his +- still looked good, which is pretty encouraging

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612743/onoffcourt-traditional?SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Per100Plays