The Knicks Are Only Marginally Better Than Last Year

[thebuzzardman]

discuss

[Luv those Knicks]

That depends on how well Randle plays center. Time will tell.

Besides, when healthy and with OG, they were pretty darn good last year.

[Iron Mantis]

I think the Knicks are really really going to miss iHart.

As long as they get another legit Center they should be okay though

[thebuzzardman]

I think the Knicks are really really going to miss iHart.

As long as they get another legit Center they should be okay though

iShart wasn't an offensive dynamo but at least he could hit some floaters.
What they'll really miss is his ability to run plays from the high, mid and low post.

While he couldn't shoot, that ability let them spread the floor, particularly when iShart was in the high post and there were plays where iShart made passes from near the 3 point angle.

It'll be interesting.

Donte being an absolute flamethrower from 3 lead to some wins.
Now that'll be replaced with Bridges, who isn't a 3 point slouch, but he's not last year's Donte.
This year's Donte might not be last year's Donte.
Bridges better at all around scoring, something Donte struggled with at times.
Both excellent at cutting, tertiary passing etc.

On the other hand, Donte is an upgrade over Grimes or Burks as that shooter/scorer off the bench.
But then is that offset by the fact the Knicks aren't really going to have much offense from the center position?
Unless Thibs plays Randle/OG there, which he won't.

Final concern/remains to be seen:
Will the teamwork from the Villanova Less Than Super Friends overcome the fact that the Knicks still kind of lack that secondary dominant creative scorer, and no, Randle isn't that kind of player. A good player, a PF who passes, but not really that creative 3 level guy.

Most championship teams have two of those.
Knicks have one.

[MrDollarBills]

Buzz said what I was thinking in terms of the team missing IHart's high post facilitating. That's a huge loss.

In terms of scoring I think the roster will be fine. Brunson and Randle will generate plenty of offense and Mikal will be able to get buckets by spacing and in transition. Also, remember he was coming in from a really bad situation where he had to generate points while being heavily targeted by defenses. He's going to have some nights where he drops in 27+ when he's hot.

I just hope that Thibs runs some five out line ups. There's no reason not to do so.

[Iron Mantis]

I think the Knicks are really really going to miss iHart.

As long as they get another legit Center they should be okay though

iShart wasn't an offensive dynamo but at least he could hit some floaters.
What they'll really miss is his ability to run plays from the high, mid and low post.

While he couldn't shoot, that ability let them spread the floor, particularly when iShart was in the high post and there were plays where iShart made passes from near the 3 point angle.

It'll be interesting.

Donte being an absolute flamethrower from 3 lead to some wins.
Now that'll be replaced with Bridges, who isn't a 3 point slouch, but he's not last year's Donte.
This year's Donte might not be last year's Donte.
Bridges better at all around scoring, something Donte struggled with at times.
Both excellent at cutting, tertiary passing etc.

On the other hand, Donte is an upgrade over Grimes or Burks as that shooter/scorer off the bench.
But then is that offset by the fact the Knicks aren't really going to have much offense from the center position?
Unless Thibs plays Randle/OG there, which he won't.

Final concern/remains to be seen:
Will the teamwork from the Villanova Less Than Super Friends overcome the fact that the Knicks still kind of lack that secondary dominant creative scorer, and no, Randle isn't that kind of player. A good player, a PF who passes, but not really that creative 3 level guy.

Most championship teams have two of those.
Knicks have one.

Defense is more of a concern for me. I Hart challenged anyone who came near the paint.

Once Mitch goes down for his usual 40+ games, who will be the presence to deter opponents from living in the paint, getting poster dunks and layups all day?

[thebuzzardman]

I think the Knicks are really really going to miss iHart.

As long as they get another legit Center they should be okay though

iShart wasn't an offensive dynamo but at least he could hit some floaters.
What they'll really miss is his ability to run plays from the high, mid and low post.

While he couldn't shoot, that ability let them spread the floor, particularly when iShart was in the high post and there were plays where iShart made passes from near the 3 point angle.

It'll be interesting.

Donte being an absolute flamethrower from 3 lead to some wins.
Now that'll be replaced with Bridges, who isn't a 3 point slouch, but he's not last year's Donte.
This year's Donte might not be last year's Donte.
Bridges better at all around scoring, something Donte struggled with at times.
Both excellent at cutting, tertiary passing etc.

On the other hand, Donte is an upgrade over Grimes or Burks as that shooter/scorer off the bench.
But then is that offset by the fact the Knicks aren't really going to have much offense from the center position?
Unless Thibs plays Randle/OG there, which he won't.

Final concern/remains to be seen:
Will the teamwork from the Villanova Less Than Super Friends overcome the fact that the Knicks still kind of lack that secondary dominant creative scorer, and no, Randle isn't that kind of player. A good player, a PF who passes, but not really that creative 3 level guy.

Most championship teams have two of those.
Knicks have one.

Defense is more of a concern for me. I Hart challenged anyone who came near the paint.

Once Mitch goes down for his usual 40+ games, who will be the presence to deter opponents from living in the paint, getting poster dunks and layups all day?

One of the downsides of considering Randle to play the 5

"Yo, you got that guy? Oh, he scored"

[DOT]

I mean, kinda yeah

But the whole issue with us last year was health, even if we're only marginally better overall, if we get to the playoffs healthy, the outcome should be significantly better.

[NoStatsGuy]

i dont see why we cant run plays through randle and the high post. randle is much much better than ihart on offense.

obviously id rather have ihart than dont have him. but we are overrating this guy by quite a bit.

[thebuzzardman]

I mean, kinda yeah

But the whole issue with us last year was health, even if we're only marginally better overall, if we get to the playoffs healthy, the outcome should be significantly better.

You can pencil in Randle, OG and Mitch being hurt for the playoffs right now

[thebuzzardman]

i dont see why we cant run plays through randle and the high post. randle is much much better than ihart on offense.

obviously id rather have ihart than dont have him. but we are overrating this guy by quite a bit.

Whoever is guarding Mitch is somewhat free to be a free safety on defense?

Then again, there were enough plays where iShart was passing from the perimeter and OG was cutting to the dunkers spot, so you have a point.

Mitch, I mean Sims, could clean up on dunks.

[thebuzzardman]

Are there any concerns that OG is kind of on the offensively limited side of the spectrum for a SF(he's not Reggie Bullocks but he's hardly Scottie Pippen), while if you grade Mikal as a SG, he's kind of middling with the ball in his hands?

Discuss

[DOT]

I mean, kinda yeah

But the whole issue with us last year was health, even if we're only marginally better overall, if we get to the playoffs healthy, the outcome should be significantly better.

You can pencil in Randle, OG and Mitch being hurt for the playoffs right now

I wouldn't pencil in Randle, last year was an outlier for him. He's usually an iron man, last year was the first year since his rookie year in 2015 that he played in less than 70 games (excepting 2020 because we only played 66 games that year)

OG and Mitch are definitely gonna be dealing with something come playoff time though. We don't have to do it right away, but we do need to make a move for a backup C who can at least be serviceable as a starter at some point this season.

[thebuzzardman]

I mean, kinda yeah

But the whole issue with us last year was health, even if we're only marginally better overall, if we get to the playoffs healthy, the outcome should be significantly better.

You can pencil in Randle, OG and Mitch being hurt for the playoffs right now

I wouldn't pencil in Randle, last year was an outlier for him. He's usually an iron man, last year was the first year since his rookie year in 2015 that he played in less than 70 games (excepting 2020 because we only played 66 games that year)

OG and Mitch are definitely gonna be dealing with something come playoff time though. We don't have to do it right away, but we do need to make a move for a backup C who can at least be serviceable as a starter at some point this season.

Randle is always less than 100% for the playoffs, as a Knick

[thebuzzardman]

Still, though there might be some offensive struggles at times, who isn't looking forward to this lineup when the Knicks want to close out a game/get some stops:

Deuce
Hart
Mikal
OG
Mitch

[j4remi]

They looked like contenders until the injuries ate them up last season, so being marginally better means just like last year, the Knicks ability to contend comes down to health.

...not sure how much I'd be willing to bet on Mitch or OG's ability to stay healthy. But I feel that way about Murray on Denver, KP on Boston, Davis on LA, Middleton on Milwaukee, Etc. So it's not a great situation, but some luck and good timing has helped teams in a similar situation make their runs.

[SelbyCobra]

I understand Mikal isn't a 1A type superstar, but I think Knicks fans are already kind of jaded about his acquisition despite him not playing even a single minute in NY orange and blue.

He's an iron man, major minutes, defensively oriented, efficient shooter that can drop 25 on any given night.

It's like getting another OG, but this one has no health concerns. And you didn't have to give up the actual OG.

Losing Hart is unquestionably not good, but Mikal is a significantly bigger acquisition on the positive side of the ledger. While there is definitely a need for improvement at the 5, the Knicks roster heading into this season is more than marginally improved, in my opinion.

[Gravy]

Slightly better than 14-2 in January. I'll take it!

[Wildcat]

Since a lot of things are coming down to health, I honest have OG playing 65-70 games in 24/25. I'm sure his contract has some incentive baked into it that he's going to want to achieve.

I know Center is a big concern, but that lock down lineup of Mitch, OG, Josh, Bridges, and JB (they're not keeping JB on the bench) is going to be great.

But yeah, I'm going to miss those high post plays. I-Hart had high IQ. I still think he and his wife didn't see NY as a long term fit because I still think a long term deal is better than the 2 year deal he signed because they're sure as hell not picking up that 3rd year. And he sure ain't making that kind of money again.

[sol537]

I understand Mikal isn't a 1A type superstar, but I think Knicks fans are already kind of jaded about his acquisition despite him not playing even a single minute in NY orange and blue.

He's an iron man, major minutes, defensively oriented, efficient shooter that can drop 25 on any given night.

It's like getting another OG, but this one has no health concerns. And you didn't have to give up the actual OG.

Losing Hart is unquestionably not good, but Mikal is a significantly bigger acquisition on the positive side of the ledger. While there is definitely a need for improvement at the 5, the Knicks roster heading into this season is more than marginally improved, in my opinion.

Barring major injuries, I too think we'll be better than last season and I think we'll "click" relatively quickly. Well out-talent the weaker teams and then we'll play with a chip on our shoulders against the top teams so 58+ wins is not out of the question. What does that make us... 15-20% better? Is that marginal? I don't think so...