Cavs / Hawks

[JJ_PR]

Cavs get: De'Andre Hunter and Onyeka Okongwu
Hawks get: Jaylon Tyson, Max Strus, Georges Niang, Ty Jerome and '31 unprotected first

Why?
Cleveland adds better fitting pieces.
Atlanta gets a good prospect and an unprotected first.

[bgrep14]

Doubt the Cavs are going to trade unprotected future 1sts for players that don't move the needle forward and I doubt they move Tyson at this time.

[toooskies]

As-is, this trade puts the Cavs in a position where they cannot retain Okoro and stay out of the tax, thus adding another piece Cleveland loses in this trade. For that reason it's a non-starter as all indications are the Cavs are staying out of the tax this year.

I think the value is off as I'd consider the Atlanta package as only worth a single 1st to upgrade from Strus/Niang. Drop Tyson or the 2031 1st from the deal to get it closer. (I'd prefer to keep Tyson, but the Atlanta GM might want him and trading him makes the money harder to work.) Of course, I'm on the Cavs' side and I wonder what Atlanta fans would think.

In terms of fit for the Cavs I think Nance is a better target than Okongwu as a match to our current frontcourt. I think sending out LeVert makes more sense than sending out Strus as Atlanta would prefer an expiring rather than 3 years of salary.

Hunter + <ATL big> for <Cavs spare parts> could work, I'm just not a fan of this incarnation.

[jayu70]

Cavs get: De'Andre Hunter and Onyeka Okongwu
Hawks get: Jaylon Tyson, Max Strus, Georges Niang, Ty Jerome and '31 unprotected first

Why?
Cleveland adds better fitting pieces.
Atlanta gets a good prospect and an unprotected first.

Hawks will pass.
Hawks have a full roster so can't take on 2 additional players, Hawks are looking for better players to help them win as many games rhis season.
Hawks spent this offseason adding size, length and defense. This is doing the opposite in those categories.
Most Hawks fans are hoping that Onyeka finally starts at Center, with Capela getting traded.

[jbk1234]

I just can't with this anymore. If you're going to throw out *better fitting pieces* as the reason the Cavs trade their starting SF, the guy they just drafted in the 1st to play SF, and a future unprotected 1st, you at least have to offer an explanation as to why the pieces you're getting in return are better fitting.

Real talk here - Altman isn't going to be allowed to trade anymore 1sts (let alone for often injured role players). He shot his shot.

[Texas Chuck]

The concept is right. Cleveland should be looking to upgrade at the expense of futures and the Hawks should be looking to better 2 seasons from now and beyond.

But I agree with jbk, I don't see how this really makes Cleveland any better. Not meaningfully anyway. Cleveland needs a better 5th player to close games with. That player is not in this trade.

[jbk1234]

The concept is right. Cleveland should be looking to upgrade at the expense of futures and the Hawks should be looking to better 2 seasons from now and beyond.

But I agree with jbk, I don't see how this really makes Cleveland any better. Not meaningfully anyway. Cleveland needs a better 5th player to close games with. That player is not in this trade.

The Cavs have yet to convey the first pick they owe to the Jazz as a result of the Mitchell trade. That happens next summer and then they won't own their own first again until 2031. They're not the Lakers. They can't eat that much seed corn. They'll trade core guys for equal talent before they do that.

[Texas Chuck]

The concept is right. Cleveland should be looking to upgrade at the expense of futures and the Hawks should be looking to better 2 seasons from now and beyond.

But I agree with jbk, I don't see how this really makes Cleveland any better. Not meaningfully anyway. Cleveland needs a better 5th player to close games with. That player is not in this trade.

The Cavs have yet to convey the first pick they owe to the Jazz as a result of the Mitchell trade. That happens next summer and then they won't own their own first again until 2031. They're not the Lakers. They can't eat that much seed corn. They'll trade core guys for equal talent before they do that.

I mean they can. Not sure the point of worrying about future draft picks if you believe this core is good enough to compete with another addition. And if you don't believe they are you shouldn't have locked them all up.

Sure feels to me like Cleveland is still a player away. Maybe that does come via a Garland trade though that creates another hole. My point is more I think they should be buyers, but if they buy they need to upgrade their best 5. This deal doesn't do that. OO would be a backup and Hunter isn't an upgrade over Strus or Okoro in any meaningful ways.

[jbk1234]

The concept is right. Cleveland should be looking to upgrade at the expense of futures and the Hawks should be looking to better 2 seasons from now and beyond.

But I agree with jbk, I don't see how this really makes Cleveland any better. Not meaningfully anyway. Cleveland needs a better 5th player to close games with. That player is not in this trade.

The Cavs have yet to convey the first pick they owe to the Jazz as a result of the Mitchell trade. That happens next summer and then they won't own their own first again until 2031. They're not the Lakers. They can't eat that much seed corn. They'll trade core guys for equal talent before they do that.

I mean they can. Not sure the point of worrying about future draft picks if you believe this core is good enough to compete with another addition. And if you don't believe they are you shouldn't have locked them all up.

Sure feels to me like Cleveland is still a player away. Maybe that does come via a Garland trade though that creates another hole. My point is more I think they should be buyers, but if they buy they need to upgrade their best 5. This deal doesn't do that. OO would be a backup and Hunter isn't an upgrade over Strus or Okoro in any meaningful ways.

The only player still under contract in 2030 will be Evan Mobley. The problem with trading picks six years out is that you don't know what you don't know.

[Texas Chuck]

But okay. I'm okay with with the rebuild taking a minute longer if I am giving myself a chance to compete for a title now. I'm not as interested in being okayish to good for 10 years as I am being a legit contender for 2-3 years. Now I recognize others feel differently and I'm not saying their approach is wrong. Just what my approach is.

I hope Dallas keeps using what assets they have to support Luka/Kyrie knowing Kyrie is aging out and Luka might be on his last Dallas contract(though I expect him to at least sign the largest contract in NBA history with Dallas and then demand a trade if Dallas isn't showing him they are willing to do everything.

Now Cleveland doesn't have a Luka or a Lebron. So maybe the belief is we aren't real contenders but we want to sustain being a 4-6 seed and hope there is a year of injuries or we can spring an upset or something. And that's fine. But for me in that case I'd be trying to re-configure things now rather than settling into that. How much do they believe in playoff Spida? How good do they really think Mobley can be? And does he have to be a full-time center to be the best version of him?

I believe in Cleveland. I think they can be really good defensively even with that backcourt if they can find a player better than Strus/Okoro in particular. Boston looks pretty tough now, but their big situation is pretty iffy with age and injury. And while they paid everyone, for how long will they? With the team being put on the market its impossible to know how long they stay together. Nobody else feels like Cleveland can't compete with to me.

[jbk1234]

But okay. I'm okay with with the rebuild taking a minute longer if I am giving myself a chance to compete for a title now. I'm not as interested in being okayish to good for 10 years as I am being a legit contender for 2-3 years. Now I recognize others feel differently and I'm not saying their approach is wrong. Just what my approach is.

I hope Dallas keeps using what assets they have to support Luka/Kyrie knowing Kyrie is aging out and Luka might be on his last Dallas contract(though I expect him to at least sign the largest contract in NBA history with Dallas and then demand a trade if Dallas isn't showing him they are willing to do everything.

Now Cleveland doesn't have a Luka or a Lebron. So maybe the belief is we aren't real contenders but we want to sustain being a 4-6 seed and hope there is a year of injuries or we can spring an upset or something. And that's fine. But for me in that case I'd be trying to re-configure things now rather than settling into that. How much do they believe in playoff Spida? How good do they really think Mobley can be? And does he have to be a full-time center to be the best version of him?

I believe in Cleveland. I think they can be really good defensively even with that backcourt if they can find a player better than Strus/Okoro in particular. Boston looks pretty tough now, but their big situation is pretty iffy with age and injury. And while they paid everyone, for how long will they? With the team being put on the market its impossible to know how long they stay together. Nobody else feels like Cleveland can't compete with to me.

I think the bolded is the tough part - especially when it comes to Strus. Is PJ Washington an unprotected 1st upgrade over Strus?

[toooskies]

But okay. I'm okay with with the rebuild taking a minute longer if I am giving myself a chance to compete for a title now. I'm not as interested in being okayish to good for 10 years as I am being a legit contender for 2-3 years. Now I recognize others feel differently and I'm not saying their approach is wrong. Just what my approach is.

I hope Dallas keeps using what assets they have to support Luka/Kyrie knowing Kyrie is aging out and Luka might be on his last Dallas contract(though I expect him to at least sign the largest contract in NBA history with Dallas and then demand a trade if Dallas isn't showing him they are willing to do everything.

Now Cleveland doesn't have a Luka or a Lebron. So maybe the belief is we aren't real contenders but we want to sustain being a 4-6 seed and hope there is a year of injuries or we can spring an upset or something. And that's fine. But for me in that case I'd be trying to re-configure things now rather than settling into that. How much do they believe in playoff Spida? How good do they really think Mobley can be? And does he have to be a full-time center to be the best version of him?

I believe in Cleveland. I think they can be really good defensively even with that backcourt if they can find a player better than Strus/Okoro in particular. Boston looks pretty tough now, but their big situation is pretty iffy with age and injury. And while they paid everyone, for how long will they? With the team being put on the market its impossible to know how long they stay together. Nobody else feels like Cleveland can't compete with to me.

Altman is all-in on the current core. He literally only made a draft pick to change last year's roster, letting Damian Jones go and keeping a spot open for this year's version of Marcus Morris. He's betting on, or at least evaluating, what maximum continuity of the roster looks like with different coaching.

Allen and Mobley are above-average passers for PF/Cs and playing them together on offense is not as dire as some think-- they're not Sengun/Sabonis tier, but you can run offense through them. You also don't have any drop-off of rim protection in bench units, which gets lost in all the noise of whether they can play together.

The Cavs' defense was #1 in the league with Okoro starting in 2022-23 and still in the top tier last year with Strus. Mitchell is simply a better defender than he was in Utah.

Garland and Mitchell is a defensive issue but Mitchell's massive wingspan for his height makes the issue only a concern rather than an impossibility for good team-building. I think Merrill + Garland is a far worse defensive pairing despite Merrill being a reasonable SG height with good foot speed and positioning, for instance, because neither have the wingspan to make meaningful contests.

[Texas Chuck]

I think the bolded is the tough part - especially when it comes to Strus. Is PJ Washington an unprotected 1st upgrade over Strus?

No, I don't think he is. He turned out to be a really good fit for Dallas specifically but I don't think he's worth an unprotected first nor do I think he necessarily has the impact on Cleveland he did in Dallas. I don't think he's anything special as a player.

But he's also a player Dallas has no replacement for unless Prosper takes a massive jump nobody should expect so he's unlikely to be available for a future pick even if we dialed in the value. Dallas is just as win now if not more so considering their shorter window with their stars compared to Cleveland just just locked up their two most important guys.

But there should be players on the market who upgrade the Cavs closing 5 by the deadline.