Ingram: Sunk Cost/ Buy Low Option

[YayBasketball]

What if Pelicans are ready to move on from the Ingram situation, and the Nets take a chance at buying low (but make sure to preserve the tank)?

*DFS + Bojan + Sharpe
to NOP

for

Ingram + 2 min. salary players
(2 of JRE/Theis/Alvarado/Matkovic)
to BKN

*Nets waive Keon Johnson' partially guaranteed contract to stay under the tax.
*If Nets fans/GM deem DFS too valuable to give up here(?!), then Schroder can be subbed in instead, with only 1 min. salary going out from NOP.

Pels somewhat accept sunk cost on BI and get under the tax. They break up Ingram's deal into more easily tradeable salary guys for some potential deadline moves. DFS can be a great depth contributor, Sharpe gets the spot starter minutes, Bojan brings a vet shooter for depth and re-tradeable expiring contract.

Nets take a buy low opportunity on Ingram, while giving up minimal assets. They agree to load manage him, Cam Johnson and Claxton throughout the season, leaving options open to re-trade him at the deadline, re-sign him this summer, sign-n-trade him, or let his contract expire, clearing ultimate cap space.

Sharpe/ Missi
Zion/ DFS/ Bojan
Murphy/ Jevonte
Herb/ Hawkins
Murrary/ CJ

Claxton/ Clowney
CamJ/ Watford
Ingram/ Wilson
CamT/ Whitehead
Simmons/ Schroder

[zimpy27]

Ingram for Claxton would be my expectation

[YayBasketball]

Ingram for Claxton would be my expectation

Def a possibility. But watch the reactions from Nets fans and others here to that suggestion. "Claxton worth more due to contract....why would Nets give up Clax for BI when they're rebuilding/tanking." Which both have some reasoning. So here's a try at buy low value that still helps the Pels and cap flexibility.

[giberish]

This seems like about Ingram's current value. Sharpe has some value and is an interesting center option for the Pels, but he's not that valuable. IMO any team trading for Ingram needs to give up little enough that if he leaves as a UFA in a year that it's not a huge loss (that way they won't be forced into a major overpay to keep him).

of course at that trade value it can make sense for NO to just keep him (and then feel that they also wouldn't be losing that much if he leaves as a UFA). The fit of the incoming guys is reasonable - especially Sharpe who might be a solid starter if given the role (with Claxton in BK he won't get it there).

[Godaddycurse]

This seems like about Ingram's current value. Sharpe has some value and is an interesting center option for the Pels, but he's not that valuable. IMO any team trading for Ingram needs to give up little enough that if he leaves as a UFA in a year that it's not a huge loss (that way they won't be forced into a major overpay to keep him).

of course at that trade value it can make sense for NO to just keep him (and then feel that they also wouldn't be losing that much if he leaves as a UFA). The fit of the incoming guys is reasonable - especially Sharpe who might be a solid starter if given the role (with Claxton in BK he won't get it there).

NOP needs to wait until deadline for would be contenders who think Ingram can push them over the top OR a surprise playoff team like Indy last year who doesn't mind paying the max to keep the pending UFA.

[YayBasketball]

This seems like about Ingram's current value. Sharpe has some value and is an interesting center option for the Pels, but he's not that valuable. IMO any team trading for Ingram needs to give up little enough that if he leaves as a UFA in a year that it's not a huge loss (that way they won't be forced into a major overpay to keep him).

of course at that trade value it can make sense for NO to just keep him (and then feel that they also wouldn't be losing that much if he leaves as a UFA). The fit of the incoming guys is reasonable - especially Sharpe who might be a solid starter if given the role (with Claxton in BK he won't get it there).

NOP needs to wait until deadline for would be contenders who think Ingram can push them over the top OR a surprise playoff team like Indy last year who doesn't mind paying the max to keep the pending UFA.

Yea I definitely think GM Griffin (the RealGM will play the long game, keep him until the deadline and see what offers pop up then. The OP trade works now or at the deadline if no better offers happen.

But this OP is exploring the scenario where a clean break is best. Like, if Ingram does more cryptic posts about being unhappy with the situation, having to force feed him touches in a clunky fit because he needs to get his numbers for his new contract. Instead, they could go into the season fully committed to starting both Murphy and Herb alongside Zion and Murray as the core of the team. And they get a decent young starting Center and veteran wing depth.

[ProcessDoctor]

NOP ought to make a move for Towns, although idk if Minny would bite. I understand the risk of breaking up the wolves chemistry though.

[Texas Chuck]

a BI trade seems destined to be a 3-teamer unless a fit just conveniently happens. But the Pels need to find a team that wants him to get max value. Then try and convert that value to something they need.

I don't see the point in trading him for a package like in the OP. Those are all some level of useful player, but maybe none of them close a game for you (DFS sometimes maybe?). If I am moving him I want to get back a guy who is definitely in my best 5.

Otherwise hang on to him because Zion is going to miss games and you will get value out of his ability to create offense. CJ as the sole focal point ain't it.

[ecuhus1981]

Ingram to Brooklyn makes sense. Add JRE and Alvarado as the roster balance, and we can discuss considerable sweetener.

Sharpe to New Orleans makes sense. He's no star, but he would be a credible starting 5 who complements their squad with rebounding and DHO playmaking.

It may not set either fanbase ablaze with excitement, but this trade makes sense.

[YayBasketball]

a BI trade seems destined to be a 3-teamer unless a fit just conveniently happens. But the Pels need to find a team that wants him to get max value. Then try and convert that value to something they need. it.

For sure, makes more sense to wait it out and field offers at the deadline. The most likely scenario now. But how many teams actually want him enough to give up valuable assets/players and give him his next contract which currently stands at max contract demands? None, right? Lowering that demand changes the whole situation, but that has yet to happen and may never.

I don't see the point in trading him for a package like in the OP. Those are all some level of useful player, but maybe none of them close a game for you (DFS sometimes maybe?). If I am moving him I want to get back a guy who is definitely in my best 5.

Can you give some example of players they could acquire in an Ingram deal who would definitely be a part of their best 5? Another aspect is the BI fit with ball dominant Zion and Murray, where 1 or 2 of the 3 will be spotting up off-ball at the 3 pt line, or inside it in Zions case. Ingram is not a good off-ball player and has yet to embrace that role when needed, and now in his contract year he would embrace that even less. Another factor is, you have a clear weakness at the Center spot all the way until the deadline or until Ingram or CJ+assets are traded for a C upgrade.

Otherwise hang on to him because Zion is going to miss games and you will get value out of his ability to create offense. CJ as the sole focal point ain't it.

Yea that's a good point, needing that next big time creator for Z's potential missed games. But CJ as focal point? Did you forget about Dejounte Murray?

[YayBasketball]

Ingram to Brooklyn makes sense. Add JRE and Alvarado as the roster balance, and we can discuss considerable sweetener.

Sharpe to New Orleans makes sense. He's no star, but he would be a credible starting 5 who complements their squad with rebounding and DHO playmaking.

It may not set either fanbase ablaze with excitement, but this trade makes sense.

Thanks for the good feedback. I'm sure Pels would want to keep Alvarado and send Theis instead, but with Alvarado's lack of size limiting his playoff effectiveness and him needing a nice new contract next offseason, along with him being BFFs with Ingram-- I could see it. Especially with him being from Brooklyn, that could be a fun PR storyline to pump up the fan base through the rebuild. Sharpe is an interesting potential stopgap C for sure. Could be more.

[Texas Chuck]

Yea that's a good point, needing that next big time creator for Z's potential missed games. But CJ as focal point? Did you forget about Dejounte Murray?

I did.

Yeah a big oversight by me and yeah that does open up a trade for role players as being more feasible than I was suggesting. No idea how I just completely forgot about that trade.

[toooskies]

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

[Jody Smokz]

Maybe they could move Cam Johnson to a 3rd team for a big maybe? Trey Murphy is in the role that Cam would fill and this trade doesn't address their hole at C

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

[YayBasketball]

Yea that's a good point, needing that next big time creator for Z's potential missed games. But CJ as focal point? Did you forget about Dejounte Murray?

I did.

Yeah a big oversight by me and yeah that does open up a trade for role players as being more feasible than I was suggesting. No idea how I just completely forgot about that trade.

Haha thought so! Yeah Murray being in the fold is a big reason why Ingram is more expendable now when factoring in contract and role.

[YayBasketball]

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

Maybe they could move Cam Johnson to a 3rd team for a big maybe? Trey Murphy is in the role that Cam would fill and this trade doesn't address their hole at C

Yea important to remember, Pels will want to clear some salary, too, in an Ingram trade. With Murphy's extension kicking in next year (30m/yr?) they will be capped up with Zion, Murray, McCullom and Murphy in the fold. McCullom will be more tradeable next offseason, but it's better to have the leverage with teams to not be forced to move him.

So what tram would want CamJ/DFS and be willing to give their good Center for them? Cavs come to mind, but cavs fans will say "no, we would need picks in the deal." Which neither Pels nor BKN would want to give in that deal. My trade with CamJ to ORL with WCJ to NOP didn't hit well with posters here. I thought CamJ was more valuable than others apparently.

[zimpy27]

I really see Lakers being one of the teams most wanting Ingrams toolkit in the league.

Does anyone know what other teams might want an half-court iso scoring wing on a max deal?

Most of the other playoff teams have a lot of ball movement or transition offense or a need sis stronger for defense.
Heat, Wolves, Magic, Lakers are probably the 4 teams that make most sense.

[YayBasketball]

I really see Lakers being one of the teams most wanting Ingrams toolkit in the league.

Does anyone know what other teams might want an half-court iso scoring wing on a max deal?

Most of the other playoff teams have a lot of ball movement or transition offense or a need sis stronger for defense.
Heat, Wolves, Magic, Lakers are probably the 4 teams that make most sense.

Yea Lakers make some sense, and Heat is the other mix of fit and desperation that could want Ingram. But neither will want to give up good assets (way future 1sts) to get him this season then have to commit a full max contract to him (4yrs. 208m).

Seems like 1) Ingram and his agent lowers their contract demands enough to make Pels and other interested teams begin realistic contract and trade discussions. Or 2) They stick to their max contract demands and wait it out until UFA next offseason. When bad "tanking" teams (CHA, DET, POR, TOR, WAS, SAS, UTA, BKN, CHI....) will be done with the 2025 tankfest. Then they'll be in position to really consider signing Ingram to a max or near max deal, without giving up any assets like they would have to now.

[zimpy27]

I really see Lakers being one of the teams most wanting Ingrams toolkit in the league.

Does anyone know what other teams might want an half-court iso scoring wing on a max deal?

Most of the other playoff teams have a lot of ball movement or transition offense or a need sis stronger for defense.
Heat, Wolves, Magic, Lakers are probably the 4 teams that make most sense.

Yea Lakers make some sense, and Heat is the other mix of fit and desperation that could want Ingram. But neither will want to give up good assets (way future 1sts) to get him this season then have to commit a full max contract to him (4yrs. 208m).

Seems like 1) Ingram and his agent lowers their contract demands enough to make Pels and other interested teams begin realistic contract and trade discussions. Or 2) They stick to their max contract demands and wait it out until UFA next offseason. When bad "tanking" teams (CHA, DET, POR, TOR, WAS, SAS, UTA, BKN, CHI....) will be done with the 2025 tankfest. Then they'll be in position to really consider signing Ingram to a max or near max deal, without giving up any assets like they would have to now.

Well I wonder if Heat give up Butler (as is reported) for Ingram. Getting a younger player to pair with Bam makes sense.
This is something I haven't seen posted but seems interesting.

What teams want Butler though? Do Pels want him? I heard Nets and GSW were keen on him.

[TheNetsFan]

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

Maybe they could move Cam Johnson to a 3rd team for a big maybe? Trey Murphy is in the role that Cam would fill and this trade doesn't address their hole at C

Yea important to remember, Pels will want to clear some salary, too, in an Ingram trade. With Murphy's extension kicking in next year (30m/yr?) they will be capped up with Zion, Murray, McCullom and Murphy in the fold. McCullom will be more tradeable next offseason, but it's better to have the leverage with teams to not be forced to move him.

So what tram would want CamJ/DFS and be willing to give their good Center for them? Cavs come to mind, but cavs fans will say "no, we would need picks in the deal." Which neither Pels nor BKN would want to give in that deal. My trade with CamJ to ORL with WCJ to NOP didn't hit well with posters here. I thought CamJ was more valuable than others apparently.

I think the Pels are more interested in controlling than clearing salary. If they can get 2-3 players locked in for multiple years equivalent to Ingram's current contract, or 1 player for less than his current contract, that's their ideal scenario. They're clearly uninterested in paying $40+mil for one player in that role, be it Ingram or someone else.

That being said, I can't see the Nets making a deal for a guy that might help them win games this year, especially one that will be an unrestricted, unlikely to be retained and likely to go to the highest bidder FA. At the trade deadline, where they can more easily load manage him & lose through the end of the season, it becomes a bit more within the realm of possibility.