Ingram: Sunk Cost/ Buy Low Option

[jbk1234]

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

Maybe they could move Cam Johnson to a 3rd team for a big maybe? Trey Murphy is in the role that Cam would fill and this trade doesn't address their hole at C

Yea important to remember, Pels will want to clear some salary, too, in an Ingram trade. With Murphy's extension kicking in next year (30m/yr?) they will be capped up with Zion, Murray, McCullom and Murphy in the fold. McCullom will be more tradeable next offseason, but it's better to have the leverage with teams to not be forced to move him.

So what tram would want CamJ/DFS and be willing to give their good Center for them? Cavs come to mind, but cavs fans will say "no, we would need picks in the deal." Which neither Pels nor BKN would want to give in that deal. My trade with CamJ to ORL with WCJ to NOP didn't hit well with posters here. I thought CamJ was more valuable than others apparently.

I think the Pels are more interested in controlling than clearing salary. If they can get 2-3 players locked in for multiple years equivalent to Ingram's current contract, or 1 player for less than his current contract, that's their ideal scenario. They're clearly uninterested in paying $40+mil for one player in that role, be it Ingram or someone else.

That being said, I can't see the Nets making a deal for a guy that might help them win games this year, especially one that will be an unrestricted, unlikely to be retained and likely to go to the highest bidder FA. At the trade deadline, where they can more easily load manage him & lose through the end of the season, it becomes a bit more within the realm of possibility.

I really think that the 2025 draft class is an underrated factor here. I definitely get the sense that most of the lottery teams are just fine *developing* this season. Add to that the reality that the Nets will be one of the few teams with the space to sign him outright, and it's just difficult to align the incentives.

[toooskies]

I don't see Brooklyn trading for Ingram unless they can get off some long-term money in the process. Could be DFS + Cam Johnson?

Maybe they could move Cam Johnson to a 3rd team for a big maybe? Trey Murphy is in the role that Cam would fill and this trade doesn't address their hole at C

Yea important to remember, Pels will want to clear some salary, too, in an Ingram trade. With Murphy's extension kicking in next year (30m/yr?) they will be capped up with Zion, Murray, McCullom and Murphy in the fold. McCullom will be more tradeable next offseason, but it's better to have the leverage with teams to not be forced to move him.

So what tram would want CamJ/DFS and be willing to give their good Center for them? Cavs come to mind, but cavs fans will say "no, we would need picks in the deal." Which neither Pels nor BKN would want to give in that deal. My trade with CamJ to ORL with WCJ to NOP didn't hit well with posters here. I thought CamJ was more valuable than others apparently.

I think the Pels are more interested in controlling than clearing salary. If they can get 2-3 players locked in for multiple years equivalent to Ingram's current contract, or 1 player for less than his current contract, that's their ideal scenario. They're clearly uninterested in paying $40+mil for one player in that role, be it Ingram or someone else.

That being said, I can't see the Nets making a deal for a guy that might help them win games this year, especially one that will be an unrestricted, unlikely to be retained and likely to go to the highest bidder FA. At the trade deadline, where they can more easily load manage him & lose through the end of the season, it becomes a bit more within the realm of possibility.

I agree here, with the exception that if the Nets want to do a quick rebuild with Ingram, Butler, and a top draft pick all coming over next year, making a trade for Ingram (while getting off of Johnson's salary in particular) might make sense. Although I'd probably wait until the deadline after locking in a bottom 5 pick.

[jayjaysee]

Probably about the 10th time throwing it out there and there’s plenty of it’s… If Ingram is willing to expend… If Dallas new guys are willing to spend big for a few years.. Gafford/Maxi/Klay for Ingram/JRE and another cet min is a near perfect salary match, and the 2025 first?

and probably depends on what Lively, Klay, and Ingram look like?

[Crymson]

What if Pelicans are ready to move on from the Ingram situation

By all reputable accounts, they aren't. They want to contend this season, and they'll trade him only if they're going to get commensurate win-now value in return. The notion that they're going to sell low on him just because he might leave next season has no basis in fact or logic.

[Jody Smokz]

Not as long as they are committed to AD/Bron as the focal point. The Lakers desperately need 2 way players. Ingram is a score first wing that doesn't give you anything you need on defense and he doesn't like to shoot 3s at a high volume. He'd also be the 3rd option and wants to be extended.

I really see Lakers being one of the teams most wanting Ingrams toolkit in the league.

Does anyone know what other teams might want an half-court iso scoring wing on a max deal?

Most of the other playoff teams have a lot of ball movement or transition offense or a need sis stronger for defense.
Heat, Wolves, Magic, Lakers are probably the 4 teams that make most sense.

[YayBasketball]

I think the Pels are more interested in controlling than clearing salary. If they can get 2-3 players locked in for multiple years equivalent to Ingram's current contract, or 1 player for less than his current contract, that's their ideal scenario. They're clearly uninterested in paying $40+mil for one player in that role, be it Ingram or someone else.

That being said, I can't see the Nets making a deal for a guy that might help them win games this year, especially one that will be an unrestricted, unlikely to be retained and likely to go to the highest bidder FA. At the trade deadline, where they can more easily load manage him & lose through the end of the season, it becomes a bit more within the realm of possibility.

The issue with taking in equal long term salary than Ingram, even split among a few players, is Murphy's new contract that will be added to the big Zion, Murray and McCullom salaries. So that would put them in a position where they are forced to trade McCullom next offseason to keep under the luxury tax, which teams will know and take advantage of. That's why I think one medium size multi year contract and some expiring makes sense.

And I agree it's unlikely for the Nets to trade for him. Just exploring a fun option. But the idea would be getting him in the program and culture, then keeping his lower cap hold (I think?) to then make more signings/trades next offseason.

[YayBasketball]

What if Pelicans are ready to move on from the Ingram situation

By all reputable accounts, they aren't. They want to contend this season, and they'll trade him only if they're going to get commensurate win-now value in return. The notion that they're going to sell low on him just because he might leave next season has no basis in fact or logic.

Which reputable accounts are you referencing? Are you familiar with the idea of publicly posturing for maximum leverage in a situation?

I agree with your overall assessment of David Griffin not sellng low, but there are other potential negative factors to keeping Ingram. Like: him taking away a starting spot and role/minutes from Herb or (likely) Murphy, his unfulfilled contract demands becoming a distraction for a team pushing for contention, his suboptimal basketball style fit (needs the ball, low volume of 3's, mid defense) alongside Zion and Murray leading to bad basketball results. And he and his contract being expendable while they could be used to add valuable contributing players, like a starting Center and overall depth pieces.

When considering all that, there is some fact and logic to the idea of trading him for a deal like in the OP.

[jbk1234]

What if Pelicans are ready to move on from the Ingram situation

By all reputable accounts, they aren't. They want to contend this season, and they'll trade him only if they're going to get commensurate win-now value in return. The notion that they're going to sell low on him just because he might leave next season has no basis in fact or logic.

If they sell low on him, it will be because he's disgruntled enough that he's causing problems. It's in everyone's interests to put their best faces on the situation, but player's get a say in how it goes and sometimes emotions get the better of them.

[babyjax13]

Ingram + ??? to Miami
Butler to Atlanta
Okongwu and Bogdanovic to NOP

[YayBasketball]

Ingram + ??? to Miami
Butler to Atlanta
Okongwu and Bogdanovic to NOP

Oo juicy. Butler is interesting in ATL, hadn't thought of that fit before. Can they fit in Butler and Jalen Johnson's new contract with Trae's? (and Hunter's)

[Monky15]

Ingram, min filler contract(s) to Houston for Brooks, Landale, Eason

Houston upgrades from Brooks to Ingram at the cost of Eason.
NOP get some depth bigs in Landale and Eason with Brooks on a declining contract rounding out the wing.

NOP follows up with CJ for Ayton to finally get their starting C while remaining under the tax.
Murray, Hawkins, Alvarado
Brooks, Murphy, Hawkins
Jones, Brooks, Murphy, Zion
Zion, Eason
Ayton, Landale, Eason

Portland follow up with Simons, Reath to LAL for Russel, Vincent, Top 8 protected 1st in '29
LAL adds a better shooter and another option at C while shaving a little money this season.
Portland surround Scoot with high character vets in CJ and Vincent while adding a future 1st. I'd look to buy out Russell.
Scoot, Vincent
CJ, Sharpe
Deni, Thybulle, Murray
Grant, Deni
Clingan, Williams

[YayBasketball]

Ingram, min filler contract(s) to Houston for Brooks, Landale, Eason

Houston upgrades from Brooks to Ingram at the cost of Eason.
NOP get some depth bigs in Landale and Eason with Brooks on a declining contract rounding out the wing.

NOP follows up with CJ for Ayton to finally get their starting C while remaining under the tax.
Murray, Hawkins, Alvarado
Brooks, Murphy, Hawkins
Jones, Brooks, Murphy, Zion
Zion, Eason
Ayton, Landale, Eason

Hmm interesting. Eason would be the main asset here, but HOU will reply that they won't trade him. For Pels, don't think it would be worth taking on Brooks' contract as a below average 3pt shooter, and he would block Murphy starting. Now, Brooks to a 3rd team makes some sense.

CJ for Ayton makes positional sense. But don't see POR doing that straight up, and I don't see Griffin dumping both BI and CJ in the same season.

[JRoy]

Ingram, min filler contract(s) to Houston for Brooks, Landale, Eason

Houston upgrades from Brooks to Ingram at the cost of Eason.
NOP get some depth bigs in Landale and Eason with Brooks on a declining contract rounding out the wing.

NOP follows up with CJ for Ayton to finally get their starting C while remaining under the tax.
Murray, Hawkins, Alvarado
Brooks, Murphy, Hawkins
Jones, Brooks, Murphy, Zion
Zion, Eason
Ayton, Landale, Eason

Hmm interesting. Eason would be the main asset here, but HOU will reply that they won't trade him. For Pels, don't think it would be worth taking on Brooks' contract as a below average 3pt shooter, and he would block Murphy starting. Now, Brooks to a 3rd team makes some sense.

CJ for Ayton makes positional sense. But don't see POR doing that straight up, and I don't see Griffin dumping both BI and CJ in the same season.

POR is not hosting a CJ reunion tour without being appropriately compensated for the service. Better to move Ayton for something we might want or just let him expire.

[babyjax13]

NOP trades: Brandon Ingram, Yves Missi, CJ McCollum, Jordan Hawkins [~$77 million]
MIA trades: Jimmy Butler, Terry Rozier, Kel'el Ware [~$79 million]

New Orleans gets the perfect fitting young center + a veteran star to boost them into the playoffs this year and mentor Zion.
Miami gets younger players whose ages line up with Bam.

Not sure how to balance this. I have the trade value of:

Butler > Ingram
Rozier = CJ
Missi + Hawkins = Ware? [but, this is a personal preference issue ... I like Hawkins and Ware a lot but don't see as much in Missi]

[Xman]

MIL: Sends BLopez; Gets Cam Johnson
NO: Sends Ingram and Hawkins; Gets BLo and DFS
BKN: Sends CamJ and DFS; Gets Ingram and Hawkins

Milwaukee converts BLo to a sf. Based on rumors of him being shopped to fill that weakness.
NO gets a Center and big man depth it needs while shipping Ingram (who appears to be on his way out) and adding Hawkins as price to make it happen.
BKN gets a pg prospect in Hawkins. Ingram is expiring so either gives a boost or they let him expire. Claxton will be the only salary of note on the roster going forward - so huge cap space next year (with Hawkins/CamJ/Claxton as beginning of core).

[babyjax13]

MIL: Sends BLopez; Gets Cam Johnson
NO: Sends Ingram and Hawkins; Gets BLo and DFS
BKN: Sends CamJ and DFS; Gets Ingram and Hawkins

Milwaukee converts BLo to a sf. Based on rumors of him being shopped to fill that weakness.
NO gets a Center and big man depth it needs while shipping Ingram (who appears to be on his way out) and adding Hawkins as price to make it happen.
BKN gets a pg prospect in Hawkins. Ingram is expiring so either gives a boost or they let him expire. Claxton will be the only salary of note on the roster going forward - so huge cap space next year (with Hawkins/CamJ/Claxton as beginning of core).

Hawkins isn't a PG and I think New Orleans is sending a Hawkins too much, but I really like BroLo there and this is the best I've seen to make it happen.