OT: Clinton or Bush?

[Pointgod]

The state of American politics wouldn’t be where it is with Romney or McCain at the head of the party.

Not right now, no

But it would get to here eventually. Y'all gotta stop romanticizing Republican politicians as being mostly sane people, where we are now is a direct result of past Republican leadership and the choices they made. If Trump goes away, not much changes. Best case scenario is they revert back to the W. era types and we have 10-15 years before they go full mask-off again.

This isn’t about romanticizing Republicans, I know it’s a very low bar to clear but at some point you have to admit politics as a whole is better off with a Republican leader of the party who isn’t a:

1. Insurrectionist that wants to terminate the constitution
2. A traitor to the country
3. Someone who directs political violence at anyone who speaks stands up to him
4. Someone who’s rhetoric directly echoes Hitler
5. Someone who would lead racist attacks against his own citizens

The reality is that the way the country is setup and polarized there will never be a 60/40 split of Democrats and everyone else. At some point everyone needs to recognize the unique threat that Trump presents. Continue to criticize Republicans for their racisms, horrible policies and enablement of Trump. But the country will collapse eventually if you have a President and leader of a party that incites people to kill anyone that doesn’t bow down to him.

[j4remi]

would you say the same thing if there were 2 assassination attempts on Kamala Harris and bombs found at one of her rally's?

Trick question, because we (the "right") don't resort to cowardly tactics and will take it to the polls.
Disgusting

Springfield's been inundated with bomb threats over JD Vance and Trump's lies about the Haitian population...

This has been debunked as Russian hoax, By Ohio's own mayor, but I'm sure you knew that! Way to parrot more BS headlines from the left.

https://myfox28columbus.com/news/local/springfield-ohio-mayor-rob-rue-haitian-immigrants-eating-pets-cats-dogs-stealing-geese-death-threats-downtown-columbus-statehouse-donald-trump-jd-vance

This article acknowledges that the bomb threats were made and that they've had to move resources (aka security personnel) because of it. That's not to mention the school closures which were reported.

But I do like how quickly your concerns about political violence became fishing for excuses when it comes from your side.

[DOT]

Springfield's been inundated with bomb threats over JD Vance and Trump's lies about the Haitian population...

Also

On that note:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/trump-election-georgia

Emails obtained by the Guardian reveal a behind-the-scenes network of county election officials throughout Georgia coordinating on policy and messaging to both call the results of November’s election into question before a single vote is cast, and push rules and procedures favored by the election denial movement.

The emails were obtained by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew) as a result of a public records request sent to David Hancock, an election denier and member of the Gwinnett county board of elections. Crew shared the emails with the Guardian.

Spanning a period beginning in January, the communications expose the inner workings of a group that includes some of the most ardent supporters of the former president Donald Trump’s election lies as well as ongoing efforts to portray the coming election as beset with fraud. Included in the communications are agendas for meetings and efforts to coordinate on policies and messaging as the swing state has once again become a focal point of the presidential campaign.

Also:

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml

An unclassified May 2017 joint intelligence bulletin from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Homeland Security found that “white supremacist extremism poses [a] persistent threat of lethal violence,” and that White supremacists “were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016 … more than any other domestic extremist movement”.

(5) Fatal terrorist attacks by far-right-wing extremists include—

(A) the August 5, 2012, mass shooting at a Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 6 members of the gurdwara;

(B) the April 13, 2014, mass shooting at a Jewish community center and a Jewish assisted living facility in Overland Park, Kansas, in which a neo-Nazi shot and killed 3 civilians, including a 14-year-old teenager;

(C) the June 8, 2014, ambush in Las Vegas, Nevada, in which 2 supporters of the far-right-wing “patriot” movement shot and killed 2 police officers and a civilian;

(D) the June 17, 2015, mass shooting at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 9 members of the church;

(E) the November 27, 2015, mass shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in which an anti-abortion extremist shot and killed a police officer and 2 civilians;

(F) the March 20, 2017, murder of an African-American man in New York City, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly traveled to New York “for the purpose of killing black men”;

(G) the May 26, 2017, attack in Portland, Oregon, in which a White supremacist allegedly murdered 2 men and injured a third after the men defended 2 young women whom the individual had targeted with anti-Muslim hate speech;

(H) the August 12, 2017, attack in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which a White supremacist killed one and injured nineteen after driving his car through a crowd of individuals protesting a neo-Nazi rally, and of which former Attorney General Jeff Sessions said, “It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute.”;

(I) the July 2018 murder of an African-American woman from Kansas City, Missouri, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly bragged about being a member of the Ku Klux Klan;

(J) the October 24, 2018, shooting in Jeffersontown, Kentucky, in which a White man allegedly murdered 2 African Americans at a grocery store after first attempting to enter a church with a predominantly African-American congregation during a service; and

(K) the October 27, 2018, mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in which a White nationalist allegedly shot and killed 11 members of the congregation.

[j4remi]

The state of American politics wouldn’t be where it is with Romney or McCain at the head of the party.

Not right now, no

But it would get to here eventually. Y'all gotta stop romanticizing Republican politicians as being mostly sane people, where we are now is a direct result of past Republican leadership and the choices they made. If Trump goes away, not much changes. Best case scenario is they revert back to the W. era types and we have 10-15 years before they go full mask-off again.

This isn’t about romanticizing Republicans, I know it’s a very low bar to clear but at some point you have to admit politics as a whole is better off with a Republican leader of the party who isn’t a:

1. Insurrectionist that wants to terminate the constitution
2. A traitor to the country
3. Someone who directs political violence at anyone who speaks stands up to him
4. Someone who’s rhetoric directly echoes Hitler
5. Someone who would lead racist attacks against his own citizens

The reality is that the way the country is setup and polarized there will never be a 60/40 split of Democrats and everyone else. At some point everyone needs to recognize the unique threat that Trump presents. Continue to criticize Republicans for their racisms, horrible policies and enablement of Trump. But the country will collapse eventually if you have a President and leader of a party that incites people to kill anyone that doesn’t bow down to him.

But there's been groundwork to lead to a "Trump" leading the party for decades. The Brooks Brothers Riot was straight up election interference. People who questioned Dubya's decision to invade Iraq were threatened and shunned. Trump's birther conspiracies started while Obama was president, and during Obama's presidency DHS was already warning about the growth and threat of rightwing white supremacist militias.

I agree that Trump's a unique figure in American politics so far. But I'd argue that the Republicans were headed in the direction of a Trump for a very long time (arguably starting right at the Southern Switch).

[Fairview4Life]

Springfield's been inundated with bomb threats over JD Vance and Trump's lies about the Haitian population...

This has been debunked as Russian hoax, By Ohio's own mayor, but I'm sure you knew that! Way to parrot more BS headlines from the left.

https://myfox28columbus.com/news/local/springfield-ohio-mayor-rob-rue-haitian-immigrants-eating-pets-cats-dogs-stealing-geese-death-threats-downtown-columbus-statehouse-donald-trump-jd-vance

This article acknowledges that the bomb threats were made and that they've had to move resources (aka security personnel) because of it. That's not to mention the school closures which were reported.

But I do like how quickly your concerns about political violence became fishing for excuses when it comes from your side.

This was in 2018 - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cesar-sayoc-pleads-guilty-65-felonies-mailing-16-improvised-explosive-devices-connection

[St Knick]

Also

On that note:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/trump-election-georgia

Emails obtained by the Guardian reveal a behind-the-scenes network of county election officials throughout Georgia coordinating on policy and messaging to both call the results of November’s election into question before a single vote is cast, and push rules and procedures favored by the election denial movement.

The emails were obtained by the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (Crew) as a result of a public records request sent to David Hancock, an election denier and member of the Gwinnett county board of elections. Crew shared the emails with the Guardian.

Spanning a period beginning in January, the communications expose the inner workings of a group that includes some of the most ardent supporters of the former president Donald Trump’s election lies as well as ongoing efforts to portray the coming election as beset with fraud. Included in the communications are agendas for meetings and efforts to coordinate on policies and messaging as the swing state has once again become a focal point of the presidential campaign.

Also:

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml

An unclassified May 2017 joint intelligence bulletin from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Homeland Security found that “white supremacist extremism poses [a] persistent threat of lethal violence,” and that White supremacists “were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016 … more than any other domestic extremist movement”.

(5) Fatal terrorist attacks by far-right-wing extremists include—

(A) the August 5, 2012, mass shooting at a Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 6 members of the gurdwara;

(B) the April 13, 2014, mass shooting at a Jewish community center and a Jewish assisted living facility in Overland Park, Kansas, in which a neo-Nazi shot and killed 3 civilians, including a 14-year-old teenager;

(C) the June 8, 2014, ambush in Las Vegas, Nevada, in which 2 supporters of the far-right-wing “patriot” movement shot and killed 2 police officers and a civilian;

(D) the June 17, 2015, mass shooting at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 9 members of the church;

(E) the November 27, 2015, mass shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in which an anti-abortion extremist shot and killed a police officer and 2 civilians;

(F) the March 20, 2017, murder of an African-American man in New York City, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly traveled to New York “for the purpose of killing black men”;

(G) the May 26, 2017, attack in Portland, Oregon, in which a White supremacist allegedly murdered 2 men and injured a third after the men defended 2 young women whom the individual had targeted with anti-Muslim hate speech;

(H) the August 12, 2017, attack in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which a White supremacist killed one and injured nineteen after driving his car through a crowd of individuals protesting a neo-Nazi rally, and of which former Attorney General Jeff Sessions said, “It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute.”;

(I) the July 2018 murder of an African-American woman from Kansas City, Missouri, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly bragged about being a member of the Ku Klux Klan;

(J) the October 24, 2018, shooting in Jeffersontown, Kentucky, in which a White man allegedly murdered 2 African Americans at a grocery store after first attempting to enter a church with a predominantly African-American congregation during a service; and

(K) the October 27, 2018, mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in which a White nationalist allegedly shot and killed 11 members of the congregation.

can we go over all the damage done by ANTIFA/lefts during BLM riots? How bout the countless illegal immigrants punching old white ladies on NYC streets i see on the daily on social media?

if you wnat to vote for a party that actively censors dissenting voices online (free speech), wants to take away your rights to guns (1 step at a time), wants to take away parents rights (allowing minors to make life altering medical decisions without parentsl consent), then you do you.

[Fairview4Life]

How bout the countless illegal immigrants punching old white ladies on NYC streets i see on the daily on social media?

I think I see the problem.

[DOT]

This has been debunked as Russian hoax, By Ohio's own mayor, but I'm sure you knew that! Way to parrot more BS headlines from the left.

https://myfox28columbus.com/news/local/springfield-ohio-mayor-rob-rue-haitian-immigrants-eating-pets-cats-dogs-stealing-geese-death-threats-downtown-columbus-statehouse-donald-trump-jd-vance

This article acknowledges that the bomb threats were made and that they've had to move resources (aka security personnel) because of it. That's not to mention the school closures which were reported.

But I do like how quickly your concerns about political violence became fishing for excuses when it comes from your side.

This was in 2018 - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cesar-sayoc-pleads-guilty-65-felonies-mailing-16-improvised-explosive-devices-connection

In 2011:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/03/31/man-who-shot-at-white-house-sentenced-to-25-years

One Idaho resident who knew Ortega-Hernandez told investigators he referred to Obama as “the anti-Christ” and said he “needed to kill him,” according to an FBI affidavit. Another Idaho witness recalled him saying Obama was “the devil” and “needed to be taken care of.”

Gee, I wonder where he got that from...

The worst part about this incident is, the SS completely brushed it off and didn't investigate until after the Obamas got back and Michelle was informed of it. They just shrugged and went "nothing to see here"

Talk about malpractice.

[Fairview4Life]

This article acknowledges that the bomb threats were made and that they've had to move resources (aka security personnel) because of it. That's not to mention the school closures which were reported.

But I do like how quickly your concerns about political violence became fishing for excuses when it comes from your side.

This was in 2018 - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cesar-sayoc-pleads-guilty-65-felonies-mailing-16-improvised-explosive-devices-connection

In 2011:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/03/31/man-who-shot-at-white-house-sentenced-to-25-years

One Idaho resident who knew Ortega-Hernandez told investigators he referred to Obama as “the anti-Christ” and said he “needed to kill him,” according to an FBI affidavit. Another Idaho witness recalled him saying Obama was “the devil” and “needed to be taken care of.”

Gee, I wonder where he got that from...

The worst part about this incident is, the SS completely brushed it off and didn't investigate until after the Obamas got back and Michelle was informed of it. They just shrugged and went "nothing to see here"

Talk about malpractice.

It kind of seems like the secret service might not be all that great. There's also the dude who took it to the polls hit Nancy Pelosi's husband with a hammer. Or this guy from a month ago - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/virginia-man-charged-threatening-kill-kamala-harris-rcna165280

[DOT]

How bout the countless illegal immigrants punching old white ladies on NYC streets i see on the daily on social media?

I think I see the problem.

"It's true, I saw it on TV!"

[DOT]

wants to take away your rights to guns

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

[DOT]

Also, can I just point out, if we had taken away the guns, neither assassination attempt (by Republicans) on Trump would have happened lol

Republicans have never let facts get in the way of their feelings though.

[omerome]

Also, can I just point out, if we had taken away the guns, neither assassination attempt (by Republicans) on Trump would have happened lol

Republicans have never let facts get in the way of their feelings though.

These people are so concerned about losing their guns but don't give a single crap about kids losing lives when they go to school - due to guns.

[DOT]

Also, can I just point out, if we had taken away the guns, neither assassination attempt (by Republicans) on Trump would have happened lol

Republicans have never let facts get in the way of their feelings though.

These people are scared to lose their guns but don't give a single crap about kids losing lives when they go to school - due to guns.

I don't get what they're all up in arms about with these things

Look, shootings are just a fact of life. You have to move on

Now isn't the time to politicize things, sending thoughts and prayers.

[MrDollarBills]

Not right now, no

But it would get to here eventually. Y'all gotta stop romanticizing Republican politicians as being mostly sane people, where we are now is a direct result of past Republican leadership and the choices they made. If Trump goes away, not much changes. Best case scenario is they revert back to the W. era types and we have 10-15 years before they go full mask-off again.

This isn’t about romanticizing Republicans, I know it’s a very low bar to clear but at some point you have to admit politics as a whole is better off with a Republican leader of the party who isn’t a:

1. Insurrectionist that wants to terminate the constitution
2. A traitor to the country
3. Someone who directs political violence at anyone who speaks stands up to him
4. Someone who’s rhetoric directly echoes Hitler
5. Someone who would lead racist attacks against his own citizens

The reality is that the way the country is setup and polarized there will never be a 60/40 split of Democrats and everyone else. At some point everyone needs to recognize the unique threat that Trump presents. Continue to criticize Republicans for their racisms, horrible policies and enablement of Trump. But the country will collapse eventually if you have a President and leader of a party that incites people to kill anyone that doesn’t bow down to him.

But there's been groundwork to lead to a "Trump" leading the party for decades. The Brooks Brothers Riot was straight up election interference. People who questioned Dubya's decision to invade Iraq were threatened and shunned. Trump's birther conspiracies started while Obama was president, and during Obama's presidency DHS was already warning about the growth and threat of rightwing white supremacist militias.

I agree that Trump's a unique figure in American politics so far. But I'd argue that the Republicans were headed in the direction of a Trump for a very long time (arguably starting right at the Southern Switch).

Right.

The engineer of the Brooks Brothers riot is Trump's buddy and long time GOP scumbag Roger Stone, so the assertion that the GOP was headed towards becoming a pack of traitors was underway well before Trump even switched party affiliations. He was just the useful idiot that they finally needed.

The same Roger Stone that also had his hands all over January 6th and yet somehow still isn't in prison.

This has been a slow moving attempt at a coup from extremist elements within the GOP for decades. CJ John Roberts has clearly been pretending to be some staunch moderate conservative for years before he finally made his first move by gutting the VRA. It's been one domino after another since then under his watch.

Anyone who believes in "Executive Supremacy" or Unitary Executive Theory is a straight up traitor that wants to install a King of the United States.

[MrDollarBills]

This was in 2018 - https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/cesar-sayoc-pleads-guilty-65-felonies-mailing-16-improvised-explosive-devices-connection

In 2011:

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/03/31/man-who-shot-at-white-house-sentenced-to-25-years

One Idaho resident who knew Ortega-Hernandez told investigators he referred to Obama as “the anti-Christ” and said he “needed to kill him,” according to an FBI affidavit. Another Idaho witness recalled him saying Obama was “the devil” and “needed to be taken care of.”

Gee, I wonder where he got that from...

The worst part about this incident is, the SS completely brushed it off and didn't investigate until after the Obamas got back and Michelle was informed of it. They just shrugged and went "nothing to see here"

Talk about malpractice.

It kind of seems like the secret service might not be all that great. There's also the dude who took it to the polls hit Nancy Pelosi's husband with a hammer. Or this guy from a month ago - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/virginia-man-charged-threatening-kill-kamala-harris-rcna165280

The Secret Service has been compromised for awhile now. I'm still not sure why SS agents who erased their cell phone messages after January 6th weren't all rounded up for questioning by the Justice Department because it's clearly obvious that some of them were all in on it, which is why Mike Pence refused to get into a car with anyone but his own detail.

This isn't over.

[MrDollarBills]

On that note:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/trump-election-georgia

Also:

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/s894/BILLS-116s894is.xml

An unclassified May 2017 joint intelligence bulletin from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Homeland Security found that “white supremacist extremism poses [a] persistent threat of lethal violence,” and that White supremacists “were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016 … more than any other domestic extremist movement”.

(5) Fatal terrorist attacks by far-right-wing extremists include—

(A) the August 5, 2012, mass shooting at a Sikh gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 6 members of the gurdwara;

(B) the April 13, 2014, mass shooting at a Jewish community center and a Jewish assisted living facility in Overland Park, Kansas, in which a neo-Nazi shot and killed 3 civilians, including a 14-year-old teenager;

(C) the June 8, 2014, ambush in Las Vegas, Nevada, in which 2 supporters of the far-right-wing “patriot” movement shot and killed 2 police officers and a civilian;

(D) the June 17, 2015, mass shooting at the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in which a White supremacist shot and killed 9 members of the church;

(E) the November 27, 2015, mass shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in which an anti-abortion extremist shot and killed a police officer and 2 civilians;

(F) the March 20, 2017, murder of an African-American man in New York City, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly traveled to New York “for the purpose of killing black men”;

(G) the May 26, 2017, attack in Portland, Oregon, in which a White supremacist allegedly murdered 2 men and injured a third after the men defended 2 young women whom the individual had targeted with anti-Muslim hate speech;

(H) the August 12, 2017, attack in Charlottesville, Virginia, in which a White supremacist killed one and injured nineteen after driving his car through a crowd of individuals protesting a neo-Nazi rally, and of which former Attorney General Jeff Sessions said, “It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute.”;

(I) the July 2018 murder of an African-American woman from Kansas City, Missouri, allegedly committed by a White supremacist who reportedly bragged about being a member of the Ku Klux Klan;

(J) the October 24, 2018, shooting in Jeffersontown, Kentucky, in which a White man allegedly murdered 2 African Americans at a grocery store after first attempting to enter a church with a predominantly African-American congregation during a service; and

(K) the October 27, 2018, mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in which a White nationalist allegedly shot and killed 11 members of the congregation.

can we go over all the damage done by ANTIFA/lefts during BLM riots? How bout the countless illegal immigrants punching old white ladies on NYC streets i see on the daily on social media?

if you wnat to vote for a party that actively censors dissenting voices online (free speech), wants to take away your rights to guns (1 step at a time), wants to take away parents rights (allowing minors to make life altering medical decisions without parentsl consent), then you do you.

Kamala Harris and Tim Walz are both gun owners.

[Knick4Real]

The Left - the side of civility, joy and democracy

Sad you have to even say that. Nonetheless, not cowering to terrorist threats. I'll be joining the MASSIVE (or as Trump would say, "HUUUUUGE!") crowds of new yorkers who are tired of all the BS and gaslighting of the last 3.5 years.

Thousand upon thousand at Nassau colliseum AT NINE IN THE MORNING! Only see that with Kamala crowds if she's piggybacking off a concert, bussing paid people in, or using AI to phony up some pics for online.

We really need to stop the "Us vs Them" talk. We're all Americans.

However, we also need to start owning up to fault and stop going on the defensive and dividing ourselves by political parties to protect those who are in the wrong.

Donald Trump IS bombastic and inflammatory, that is undeniable. To pretend he is not simply to make your party and your brand of politics look good or appear perfect is lunacy. His incendiary choice of words and style riles people up and it's time for ALL AMERICANS (meaning Republicans, too) to admit it instead of trying to cover for it as if it's normal and not dangerous.

I'd say the exact same thing if Joe Biden or Kamala Harris held rallies that made people leave and immediately go desecrate the US Capitol. I'd say the same if Republicans were attacked at Democratic rallies (the way MAGA members did in 2016 when Trump said "In the old days, they'd be carried out on a stretcher"). I could use 1000 examples of Trump stirring the pot, using violent rhetoric, doubling down on it and egging it on more, and then pretending he had nothing to do with it after it turned violent and went too far. That is not how the sitting president and vice president of the United States operate.

If that's the type of politics and political leader you prefer, that's up to you. However, to defend it and pretend it doesn't exist is a cop-out. At least be honest and own it.

[DOT]

We really need to stop the "Us vs Them" talk. We're all Americans.

Someone should tell that to JD Vance

https://www.alternet.org/jd-vance-civil-war/

American history is a constant war between Northern Yankees and Southern Bourbons, where whichever side the hillbillies are on, wins," Vance said." And that’s kind of how I think about American politics today, is like, the Northern Yankees are now the hyper-woke, coastal elites. The Southern Bourbons are sort of the same old-school Southern folks that have been around and influential in this country for 200 years. And it’s like the hillbillies have really started to migrate towards the Southern Bourbons instead of the Northern woke people. That’s just a fundamental thing that’s happening in American politics.

[Stannis]

I think people are romanticizing this dirty work by the Mossad here. The 3,000 people severely wounded were not all Hezbollah members. 2 of the 12 deaths were children.

On another note, I think USA + West are losing the PR war here. We've been advised to stay away from Chinese hardware and software because they spy on us and steal our information. But now we have western hardware being planted with explosives. This isn't a good look, especially with all the sources and documentation.

Nothing about this seems "precision".

USA, Taiwan & Hungary (the latter 2 were part of the logistics trail) are already denying any work with the Mossad here. They don't want to be clumped into this mess.

EDIT: Looks like Lufthansa Group & Air France are cancelling flights due to pager scares.

Just wanted to add to this. I'm now reading reports that there's a second wave of attacks/explosions. This time with solar panels, intercoms, and radios exploding.

This doesn't seem like "sophisticated precision attacks". This looks like a ruthless brute force attack. Hospitals in Beirut are now overwhelmed just like the Gaza hospitals.

We already know that even Blinken pushed back on Israel attacking Lebanon. But it looks like Israel really wants a great war in the Middle East.

I would love to see Kamala Harris lay down the hammer here. If her or Biden don't step in, we will have a WW3. If Trump gets elected, he will go to war with Iran. And he's supposed to get 100m if he promises to annex the West Bank. So we already know "Trump can be bought". Anyways, WW3 with that option as well.

This is not a natural disaster. And we need to stop discussing it like it is one.