Todays NBA: Curry/Lebron vs Jordan/Hakeem

[Matt15]

Which duo would you rather have in todays NBA?

[MacGill]

The GOAT and arguably the greatest 2-way center to ever play the game. You take them, go out and get the rest of the team to shoot 3's and plan for Lebron joining up within the next 5 years (just kidding...teehee).

[1993Playoffs]

Jordan Hakeem would be pretty nasty.

Hakeems better than Curry imo

[jalengreen]

The two guys that actually dominated today's NBA and are a great fit for one another. Though Jordan/Hakeem would likely be absurd as well and either option is winning you a bunch of championships lol

[PistolPeteJR]

I’m going Jordan-Hakeem.
While I prefer the LeBron-Curry offense (though slightly), the Jordan-Hakeem defense is disgusting.

[Harry Palmer]

To think the Rockets could have had that AND Drexler, though to be fair before Sampson’s knee everyone thought it would be Houston’s league for a decade or so, and certainly had no way of anticipating that that Sampson was the last/only star teammate Olajuwon would have until his mid 30’s when he was past his prime.

[TheGOATRises007]

Jordan-Hakeem. The defensive gap is too big to ignore.

Curry/LeBron isn't a wrong answer either though.

[OhayoKD]

I’m going Jordan-Hakeem.
While I prefer the LeBron-Curry offense (though slightly), the Jordan-Hakeem defense is disgusting.

[Ol Roy]

Jordan/Hakeem.

Curry is less reliable on offense and not a positive defender. But he and LeBron would probably author more hot-streak blowouts.

[migya]

Noone's able to guard either Jordan or Olajuwon now, let alone both. The attack at the basket would be that unseen.

[OhayoKD]

Noone's able to guard either Jordan or Olajuwon now, let alone both. The attack at the basket would be that unseen.

Mutumbo and Hakeem and Robinson seemed to do quite well vs Jordan. Not seeing why Lebron(at least at the peak of his atheleticism) wouldn't. If you can protect the paint and cover ground quickly, seems like you're a pretty good match. On the other hand Curry seems just among the worse defensive assignments possible for Jordan who had a habit of overextending and getting burned by jumpshooters. One-legged Drexler shot 6 points better against him than the rest of the Bulls and as we can see on the tape it's a result of Jordan being unable to stay in front of him or avoid poorly advised lunges. Tendencies that would become far more problematic replacing Drexler with the much quicker guy who makes reads far quicker than anyone on team 2 and can shoot from basically anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=QiATYF2_3Vc&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE

Spoiler:

Read my post. Colt didn't include volume but just FG% in that post, which is like eliminating all of the context.

Simply guarding a player who plays your position more does not mean you "shut him down", particularly when he shoots 6 points better against you.

Jordan locked him down most of the time and the videos are above.

Yeah, they are. Have you watched them? I only needed to wait 27 seconds in video 2 to see "lockdown defense" where Jordan gets dribbled past and Grant stops him cold. I just needed to wait 50 seconds to see it happen again, except this time Jordan's teammates can't bail him out.

Why don't we actually track what happens here.

Possession 1: Jordan gets caught on a screen giving drexler time to kick it out

Possession 2: Jordan gets dribbled past, Horace Grant cleans up

Possession 3: Drexler has Jordan scrambling, makes him fall too far back, exploits this by giving his teammate a hand-off leaving him with acres of space, and then creates even more by catching Jordan and Pippen with a screen

Possession 4: Drexler dribbles by Jordan again, converts

Possession 5: Drexler draws a double, creates separation, fakes jordan out for a pass, Jordan's teammate deflects it, Drexler prevents the turnover

Possession 6: Intercepts a pass, his first positive play this video

Possession 7: Stonewalls Drexler for a few seconds, Drexler passes it away. second positive play this video

Possession 8: Is baited out of position by a pass-fake, prevented from recovering by a screen, Drexler capitalizes with a dunk

Possession 9: Jordan contests late, Drexler misses anyway

Possession 10: Jordan and Grant successfully prevent Drexler from receiving a pass

Possession 11 Weak contest, Drexler misses anyway

I'll let someone who actually watched summarize:

To be honest. Jordan played bad defense most of this game. Just very good help defense by the bigs.

I'd suggest only posing youtube clips you've actually watched. Maybe then we can avoid presenting Jordan getting cooked repeatedly as "lockdown defense".

Assuming comparably competent roster construction Team 1 should win handily. Jordan is facing a bigger, smarter, and legitimately two-way version of himself who accordingly requires more defensive resources to stop and is also much much better at exploiting people throwing defenders at him. Moreover that better version gets a significantly more complimentary star who is the very best at Lebron's only real limitation. Hakeem is a great, but he's not making up that gap in talent and he doesn't fit Jordan as well.

You also have the matter of lockeroom dynamics where Curry and Lebron love playing together and have little issue scaling back for great teammates while Jordan is a risk to blow up a lockeroom next to R.I.P Hamilton. Never mind a legitimate ATG who scores at volume in the biggest games.

[EmpireFalls]

LeBron struggles heavily vs elite rim protection, I think it’s fair to question how he’d handle playing against an ATG shot blocker and defensive mind. And a LeBron/Curry tandem would have to obtain a large offensive advantage to win this matchup, unless we’re giving them an elite center as well in this hypothetical.

I do think some versions of LBJ/Steph would win this matchup but if Bron’s jumper is anything less than very good (and it was many times throughout his prime) then they probably lose more often than not.

[OhayoKD]

LeBron struggles heavily vs elite rim protection

Hmm? He's one of the best ever vs it. Even with no real release valve to speak of in terms of ball-handling, a lob partner, or double-demanding scoring threats, he put up the best offensive series ever against one Dwight Howard and got better when he faced a Warriors defense that paired an elite rim-protector(Bogut) with arguably the smartest defender ever. Assuming competence on the perimeter and a decent big, Lebron is probably a nightmare defensive matchup the other way, paticularly when Jordan is operating with a major spacing disadvantage(team 1 has the two best spacers here), and doesn't have a floor-general/primary-ball-handler to tell people where to go and make doubling him on time nearly impossible.

Lebron was shutting down guards at while also strong-side blocking centers at 22 and pretty much destroyed an incredibly dynamic(especially relative to anything from the 80's) steph-led offense next to noted stalwarts kyrie irving and kevin love and timothy mosgov and delladova. With Steph taking care of your shooting worries team 1 can focus on getting an elite defensive cast.

I think Jordan is in alot more trouble here offensively than James is.

I do think some versions of LBJ/Steph would win this matchup but if Bron’s jumper is anything less than very good (and it was many times throughout his prime) then they probably lose more often than not.

Don't think the jumper paticularly matters with hakeem/mj having to worry about Steph. He didn't need it in 2012, or 2016, or even in 2013 facing an all-time defense and opponent with one-leg wade as his best compliment. And his scoring and playmaking improved in the finals with no spacing whatsoever. Think you're focusing too much on shooting and maybe scoring in general here. Shooting is like any other skill in that at some point there are diminishing returns. When you play next to steph curry, you've reached that point. A worse-shooting version of Lebron who can jump higher and make all-stars at various position groups shoot alot worse when he guards them(2009) is alot more valuable next to Steph than a verison of Lebron who shoots better but isn't doing the other stuff to nearly the same degree(2017.

The other variable I think you're missing is that Lebron's going to have a much easier jumper-diet next to Steph than he actually had. (even bad-shooter Lebron was rarely left unguarded from deep)

[homecourtloss]

LeBron struggles heavily vs elite rim protection, I think it’s fair to question how he’d handle playing against an ATG shot blocker and defensive mind.

Examples/data for the bolded?

[falcolombardi]

LeBron struggles heavily vs elite rim protection, I think it’s fair to question how he’d handle playing against an ATG shot blocker and defensive mind. And a LeBron/Curry tandem would have to obtain a large offensive advantage to win this matchup, unless we’re giving them an elite center as well in this hypothetical.

I do think some versions of LBJ/Steph would win this matchup but if Bron’s jumper is anything less than very good (and it was many times throughout his prime) then they probably lose more often than not.

You may be surprised if you compare lebron vs jordan against strong defenses....

Spoiler/hint: as per usual, the smaller playrr struggles more with height inside

[Ol Roy]

Jordan/Hakeem. Better defense, more reliable scoring.

[falcolombardi]

Jordan/Hakeem. Better defense, more reliable scoring.

Defense is a given due to hakeem but i would object to scoring

Lebron and curry duo is flat out superior offensively. Hakeem is the odd one out scoring wise (he is an all time defender with very, very strong scoring where everyone else is straight up an all time scorer s)

[Ol Roy]

Jordan/Hakeem. Better defense, more reliable scoring.

Defense is a given due to hakeem but i would object to scoring

Lebron and curry duo is flat out superior offensively. Hakeem is the odd one out scoring wise (he is an all time defender with very, very strong scoring where everyone else is straight up an all time scorer s)

I place a high value on reliability. I'll sacrifice some overall firepower in exchange for less variance that is inherent in 3PT-centric arsenals.

[HMFFL]

I believe Lebron would need to rely on Curry far too much here. If Curry's doesn't shoot atba high percentage him and Lebron are doomed. I don't believe it would be a competitive matchup.

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[falcolombardi]

I believe Lebron would need to rely on Curry far too much here. If Curry's doesn't shoot atba high percentage him and Lebron are doomed. I don't believe it would be a competitive matchup.

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Why would curry be any less likely to shot well than jordan here? Specially with lebron gravity compromising how much the rival team can sell out to chase him

Jordan/hakeem is more balanced offense/defense wise but curry and lebron team is supercharged offensively in comparision both in total offensive talent and fit together in offense