BBIQ: Barkley vs KG vs Dirk vs K-Malone

[Matt15]

In terms of Basketball IQ, how would you rank them from 1-4?

[cupcakesnake]

I'm pretty high on Dirk's BBIQ in the second half of his career. By 2011 we got to watch an absolute master read master. He knew exactly what his scoring gravity did to a defense. He knew exactly how to force the defense to overreact and then knew exactly how to punish them. It wasn't fancy passing with Dirk (he had below average passing vision and only okay processing speed), it was knowing when to drive, when to shoot when to attack a mismatch, and how to move off the ball to cause the most destruction.

But this wasn't Dirk his whole career. He took a long time to reach that level of perfection. Dirk always had tremendous raw scoring power due to his height, shooting touch, and underrated strength/athleticism. Without needing IQ, Dirk broke defenses just with normal shooting/driving post ups. When Dirk got "solved" in 2007 against the Warriors though, he showed an inability to figure things out, and it took a couple summers in the lab to correct that. The Mavs had good continuity for stretches and always built the offense around Dirk. Carlisle helped figure out how use scoring guards next to Dirk in a way that amplified the offense, and also simplified the game.

KG never had Dirk's scoring pressure. He just wasn't strong enough to force things at the rim. On offense, he had to do more with less. He had a big athleticism and mobility advantage, so we see the physical gifts more on defense. Maybe had he been paired with more aggressive point guards, we'd have seen KG as a scoring-pressure finisher type (like Malone and Dirk got to spend chunks of their careers being). KG's BBIQ showed up on defense pretty early in his career. His ability to snuff out plays and rotate with perfection is probably in the 100th percentile. On offense he was an excellent playmaking hub. As early as 1998, his passing reads from the high post really stood out. By 2002, he was basically the team's point guard.

Malone was pretty awesome as a hub, but spent more time as a finisher than an initiator. He was a good passer, but a bit of a careless one. He cleaned things up a bit by his prime, but I never found Malone super sharp at adjusting to defensive coverages. He was an easy guy to mess with in the playoffs and get him playing less than his best.

I think Barkley is a bit of an outlier here. Massively powerful athlete with very interesting skills. But his shot selection was very questionable and his passing was sometimes needless reckless. Chuck was at his best just bullying the paint, getting offensive rebounds and forcing fouls. I don't like his decision making at all.

1. KG
2. Dirk
3. Malone
4. Barkley

[O_6]

KG is #1 pretty easily imo. I wanna say Jason Kidd, Kevin Garnett, Chris Paul, LeBron James, and maybe Draymond Green are the guys that have showcased the most complete basketball IQ in the last 20 or so years. These guys all are defensive shot-callers and generals on that end. That's not only reflected by their stats and On/Off numbers, but it's reflected in the fact that their peers have praised all of them for knowing more about the other team than some of the players on the other team themselves. Calling out other teams' actions, all these guys were known for it.

And those guys including KG all spent time as primary playmakers for their team, which obviously takes a lot of IQ. Guys like KG/Draymond being able to run plays as offensive PGs while being defensive PFs who control the defense is just nuts.

#2 is between Dirk and Karl Malone. I think there's something about DIrk where he just had a great sense of how much space he had and how to bend it to help his team out. The word "gravity" gets used too much these days, but before Steph came along there were really only 2 players who "gravity" was a go-to compliment for. #1 is Shaq who really brought that "gravity" term to mainstream basketball lingo, #2 is Dirk who really helped re-define the way offenses could be built as a stretch 4. I think when he got older and became more physical (leading to the chip in 2011), he just became a master at dictating how defenses guarded him.

I don't think Malone was quite as "genius" as Dirk on offense. But Malone just was so damn consistent and reliable with the simple things. He'd run down the floor every single time, he'd set great/dirty screens, he became a master at using the PnR/PnPop with Stockton, he was a smart and physical positional defender, he'd use his hands on D for swipes. When he guarded David Robinson in the playoffs, he figured out that Robinson brought the ball low often so he just swiped and outmuscled him and really gave him trouble with this method. Maybe I'll go Dirk #2 and Malone #3 because Malone was just "doing the simple things well" and some of the things I'm considering "IQ" might be interpreted as just "effort".

Barkley is an easy #4 for me. I think his success had more to do with just his raw combination of power/explosiveness/balance. His offense was basically just overpowering people in the post and dribbling the hell out of the ball while doing so. His offensive rebounding might be the most famous skill of his and that's basically just him being strong/tough enough to battle inside. He was a lazy and relatively low IQ defender by most accounts and the limited data we have. He was a good passer for his position which shows IQ for sure, but overall I think he's last on this list.

[migya]

Barkley relied on his physical skills but he was so much smaller than his opponents. His smarts are what made him great. He was very crafty, very smart near the basket and one on one, facing or back to the basket. Philly had little talent and he carried quite well. In Phoenix, he carried that team in 1993, with many players missing time, and they won big, almost won it all.

Malone was equally as crafty as Barkley, just differently. Didn't have as many one on one moves but his knack and feel of where the ball was going to go and what direction to move to was unmatched. The guy didn't jump high and yet scored so skillfully near the basket. He constantly caught the ball and threw it up so fast to avoid the defense and scored a ton. Had Stockton, but Stock didn't score a heap, it was Malone that carried in that.

Dirk has similarities to the first two, better outside shooter, but wasn't as skilled near the basket and as crafty scoring the ball near the basket. Used his height very well and carried quite alot also. Had he had come out of the gate faster and stronger, he'd have been that much better overall but still a great run in mid 200s to early 2010s.

Garnett is the least scorer, doesn't show out so clearly on that end, didn't take over games nearly as much scoring wise, but his defense is known as among the best and his energy, though not clearly better than Barkley and Malone, was probably a bit more. Different player. Not a choice for offensive number one but as number two certainly the best overall.

[G35]

BBIQ also encompasses leadership and how a player interacts with their teammates:

Malone - he and Stockton got everything they could out of those Jazz teams
Dirk - the 2012 run validates Dirk's career and from the 2006 disaster, its a push for me
Barkley - made the most of his physical ability, most efficient scorer, if he was 2 to 3 inches taller might have had multiple titles
KG - his personality and how he interacted with teammates puts him at the bottom for me

[penbeast0]

I don't think BBIQ and leadership are the same thing, if they did it would indeed help Malone and hurt Barkley. Without it, I go

KG
Dirk
KMalone
------
Barkley

[tsherkin]

I don't think BBIQ and leadership are the same thing, if they did it would indeed help Malone and hurt Barkley. Without it, I go

KG
Dirk
KMalone
------
Barkley

BBIQ and leadership are very much different things. Leadership is about personalities, about motivation and support and timely/careful criticism and all the little details which go into getting people to do what you want them to do, how you want them to do it... and supporting them along the way. A clumsy description, but I"m sure you take my point.

Basketball IQ, on the other hand, is about understanding the sport of basketball. Where people should be, what is the correct strategy, what's going to happen next, etc, etc.

So yeah, I very much agree with you that they are separate things.

[Dr Positivity]

BBIQ: KG

BBQ: Malone

[penbeast0]

BBIQ: KG

BBQ: Malone

Maybe cooking it, but eating BBQ I'll take Barkley.