WAS-NYK

[Nazrmohamed]

Wish I could keep Precious out of it but would pull the trigger on it if nothing else could ne reached. Mitch gets hurt behind Valenciunas and you'll still need Precious. Randle gets hurt or you wanna rest him then you need Precious. But if it's what makes the deal I gotta do it.

[Toine85]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

[cgf]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

I just don't understand why you'd rather get Val than Kessler, especially given who our coach is.

[Toine85]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

I just don't understand why you'd rather get Val than Kessler, especially given who our coach is.

I just don't trust Danny Ainge to negotiate in good faith with the Knicks ever.

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[JAR69]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

I'm not clear on the CBA issue here. I didn't know about the minimum salary aggregation change, but Hoopshype says this about aggregating minimum salaries:

If a team is aggregating three (or more) player salaries in a trade for matching purposes in order to take back fewer players than that, no more than one of the aggregated players can be earning the minimum salary. This rule doesn’t apply between December 15 and the trade deadline, but is in effect the rest of the year.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/hoops-rumors-glossary-salary-aggregation-2.html

The trade couldn't happen until Dec. 15 anyway. So couldn't it be a signed Fultz, Bates-Diop, Sims/Payne + 2025 WAS pick for JV? WAS will have to deal with the roster issues discussed earlier, but this creates a bigger incentive for NY because they can keep Precious. Am I misunderstanding something?

[Toine85]

Washington trades:
Jonas Valančiūnas

New York trades:
Precious Achiuwa
Keita Bates-Diop
Jericho Sims or Cam Payne
2025 WAS 1st round pick

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

I'm not clear on the CBA issue here. I didn't know about the minimum salary aggregation change, but Hoopshype says this about aggregating minimum salaries:

If a team is aggregating three (or more) player salaries in a trade for matching purposes in order to take back fewer players than that, no more than one of the aggregated players can be earning the minimum salary. This rule doesn’t apply between December 15 and the trade deadline, but is in effect the rest of the year.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/hoops-rumors-glossary-salary-aggregation-2.html

The trade couldn't happen until Dec. 15 anyway. So couldn't it be a signed Fultz, Bates-Diop, Sims/Payne + 2025 WAS pick for JV? WAS will have to deal with the roster issues discussed earlier, but this creates a bigger incentive for NY because they can keep Precious. Am I misunderstanding something?

Good find. If that is indeed the rule, then it would most likely still have to be Precious though. Knicks need $9.9m of salary to aggregate. I think Fultz, Bates-Diop, and Sims/Payne wouldn’t be enough.

[penbeast0]

Good find. If that is indeed the rule, then it would most likely still have to be Precious though. Knicks need $9.9m of salary to aggregate. I think Fultz, Bates-Diop, and Sims/Payne wouldn’t be enough.

Wouldn't it depend on what you sign Fultz for or are the Knicks too capped out to offer him more than the vet min?

[penbeast0]

Good find. If that is indeed the rule, then it would most likely still have to be Precious though. Knicks need $9.9m of salary to aggregate. I think Fultz, Bates-Diop, and Sims/Payne wouldn’t be enough.

Wouldn't it depend on what you sign Fultz for or are the Knicks too capped out to offer him more than the vet min?

Also, when must Fultz be signed by to be eligible to be traded on Dec 15?

[Toine85]

Good find. If that is indeed the rule, then it would most likely still have to be Precious though. Knicks need $9.9m of salary to aggregate. I think Fultz, Bates-Diop, and Sims/Payne wouldn’t be enough.

Wouldn't it depend on what you sign Fultz for or are the Knicks too capped out to offer him more than the vet min?

$5m MLE for Fultz, $2.6m for Bates-Diop, and $2m cap number for Sims/Payne (though their actual salary may be higher).

[JAR69]

Good find. If that is indeed the rule, then it would most likely still have to be Precious though. Knicks need $9.9m of salary to aggregate. I think Fultz, Bates-Diop, and Sims/Payne wouldn’t be enough.

Wouldn't it depend on what you sign Fultz for or are the Knicks too capped out to offer him more than the vet min?

$5m MLE for Fultz, $2.6m for Bates-Diop, and $2m cap number for Sims/Payne (though their actual salary may be higher).

Looking at this again, I think it does work with either Sims or Payne. Using Spotrac numbers:

Bates-Diop = $2,654,644
Sims = $2,092,344, Payne = $2,087,519
Taxpayer MLE = $5,168,000

Total: with Sims = $9,914,988, with Payne = $9,910,163

Valanciunas = $9,900,000

Happy to have someone check my math.

Remarkably close. Almost as if someone set it up this way.

[cgf]

Thibs won’t play Val over Precious or Sims.

[Toine85]

Thibs won’t play Val over Precious or Sims.

I think he would: Val isn’t like Kanter. Val’s had all positive +/- ratings throughout his career except his rookie year and one year where it was barely negative (-5). Contrast that to someone like Enes who was -185 with the Knicks. Val seems to be a net positive on the floor compared to Precious and Sims who have negative +/- throughout their careers. I understand the metric has to do with other players on the court with you, but it still impressive that Val’s is positive given some of his teams have sucked.

[Jody Smokz]

I wouldn't take anything Stephen A Smith says seriously, especially considering he's on here talking a COMEDIAN. Business is business. He's not an emotional fan. Ainge has already shown that he'll make trades with anyone if the deal is right for him. Hell he's a Celtic made man and made trades with the Lakers as a Jazz GM.

My original trade cannot happen due to Knicks trading two minimum players. To make it compliant, I suggest signing Markelle Fultz and then trading him on or after Dec 15th.

Fultz, Precious, Washington pick for JVal.

I just don't understand why you'd rather get Val than Kessler, especially given who our coach is.

I just don't trust Danny Ainge to negotiate in good faith with the Knicks ever.

Read on Twitter

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[Toine85]

I wouldn't take anything Stephen A Smith says seriously, especially considering he's on here talking a COMEDIAN. Business is business. He's not an emotional fan. Ainge has already shown that he'll make trades with anyone if the deal is right for him. Hell he's a Celtic made man and made trades with the Lakers as a Jazz GM.

I just don't understand why you'd rather get Val than Kessler, especially given who our coach is.

I just don't trust Danny Ainge to negotiate in good faith with the Knicks ever.

Read on Twitter

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Multiple sources have said that Ainge was asking for 7-8 firsts for Donovan Mitchell (ended up with only 3 with some pick swaps). Also, it was rumored that Utah's asking price for Jordan Clarkson was high at the deadline when the Knicks inquired. Yes, Danny Ainge is doing his job, but it seems like he's not negotiating in good faith with the Knicks or just using the Knicks to drive up asking price on his players.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10042673-donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-jazzs-danny-ainge-eyed-7-of-knicks-1st-round-picks

[cgf]

Thibs won’t play Val over Precious or Sims.

I think he would: Val isn’t like Kanter. Val’s had all positive +/- ratings throughout his career except his rookie year and one year where it was barely negative (-5). Contrast that to someone like Enes who was -185 with the Knicks. Val seems to be a net positive on the floor compared to Precious and Sims who have negative +/- throughout their careers. I understand the metric has to do with other players on the court with you, but it still impressive that Val’s is positive given some of his teams have sucked.

But that’s with Val getting post ups to contribute on the offensive end. Thibs doesn’t use his centers like that and he won’t give Val touches over BRundle, Bridges, DiVo, Hart, or Deuce.

So Val’s defense, rebounding, and passing would need to make enough of an impact to help the team and he’s just not a meaningful upgrade over Achiuwa & Sims in those areas.

I get going for Kessler because his rim protection is at least at that level to be an upgrade over Achiuwa/Sims; and he has another cheap year.

But Val just doesn’t seem like a center Thibs would maximize

[cgf]

I wouldn't take anything Stephen A Smith says seriously, especially considering he's on here talking a COMEDIAN. Business is business. He's not an emotional fan. Ainge has already shown that he'll make trades with anyone if the deal is right for him. Hell he's a Celtic made man and made trades with the Lakers as a Jazz GM.

I just don't trust Danny Ainge to negotiate in good faith with the Knicks ever.

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Multiple sources have said that Ainge was asking for 7-8 firsts for Donovan Mitchell (ended up with only 3 with some pick swaps). Also, it was rumored that Utah's asking price for Jordan Clarkson was high at the deadline when the Knicks inquired. Yes, Danny Ainge is doing his job, but it seems like he's not negotiating in good faith with the Knicks or just using the Knicks to drive up asking price on his players.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10042673-donovan-mitchell-trade-rumors-jazzs-danny-ainge-eyed-7-of-knicks-1st-round-picks

That’s poor evidence for Ainge not being willing to deal with us because he counts the swaps and Lauri as first round values, so that wasn’t an artificial Knicks price. 6-7 first round values was the price Cleveland ended up paying.

Ditto with Clarkson, it’s not like Ainge asked us for multiple unprotected FRPs before selling him to someone else for a couple seconds. With clarkson’s contract & the leap his playmaking took, Ainge just valued him higher than the market.

I think both teams want to see how the start of the season shakes out to asses their own talent and see what else hits the market, but I think the Knicks & Jazz looping back together for something around Kessler & Dadiet + WSH FRP + SRP + Payne/Bates Diop makes a lot more sense.

Kessler is a Thibs center, he’s still young enough to develop, he’s cheap for another year, Dadiet doesn’t really fit our timeline, Utah needs a wing prospect way more than another guard even though Deuce is better than a number of their guards, Ainge can spin that package as 2 first round values +

That’s the deal that just makes sense to me and if we don’t sign a walking trade exception with our MLE, I’m going to just assume that there’s something around Dadiet & Kessler planned for December unless Jericho takes another leap and center is just no longer a concern even if Mitch does get hurt again.

[nate33]

How is this thread still alive? It's been at the top of this board for over 2 weeks now and it's an totally mundane, trivial trade proposal of role players.

[cgf]

How is this thread still alive? It's been at the top of this board for over 2 weeks now and it's an totally mundane, trivial trade proposal of role players.

Doldrums of the offseason? Add in some intra Knicks fan disagreements. Plus some of us not check here every day at this time of year, so only noticing we’ve been quoted a day or two later lol