Where would Stockton rank as a point guard today

[Ritzo]

Behind TJ McConnell

[jojo4341]

I mean I don't see any argument for him to be a top 5 PG today, because guys like SGA, Luka, Curry, Brunson, Morant, even Lillard, Hali, etc, exist. Heck, I'd take Harden over him, even with how he's fallen off.

But ... But, you had him around the 15, 25-30 range right lmao

GG my friend

Yea, realistically, I'd only have Luka and SGA over prime Stockton in a vacuum. Depending on the makeup of the team, Stockton would still have his place since he'd be the best floor general in the league. Brunson and Curry are definitely debatable. After that, I'd still take Stockton over Hali, Dame, Ja, Harden, Mitchell, Maxey, etc. It's not about PPG, all-star selections or MVP voting...the latter 2 being highly subjective awards. He played along side a perennial MVP candidate who coincidently likes to score. I'm not saying he was better than Malone, but he was definitely overshadowed by him by most. Anyone who follows basketball can see the impact he had on the court when he played. I have to re-iterate, his passing would be even more deadly today with all the spacing and freedom of movement rules.

[Special_Puppy]

He'd be a top 2 player in the league overall

[cupcakesnake]

Stockton would be a bit like Fred Vanvleet with much better passing and a better midrange game.

A tough as nails, handsy defender, with elite shooting. He'd be one of the best passers in the league.

[tsherkin]

To still give an example, Chris Paul has a lot of similar skills and a similar playstyle. He's kind of a mix of Isiah Thomas and John Stockton.

I dont see the Zeke much.

Paul is an excellent mid-range shooter and way better at protecting the ball. The PnR similarities to Stockton I see. About the only similarities with Isiah I see are height and, in contending years, sub-20 ppg.

Yeah, thinking about it, it's how I saw Chris Paul in New Orleans and it might be related to his high scoring output, that I had that correlation in my head. Since there weren't really many small scoring guards in the league until that point.

But even then, he was more efficient and more... let's say methodical. Very much a master of using screens. Isiah was never a stunner as a scorer. Hr had a couple specific playoff outbursts, of course, but definitely not a top-tier guy. Even relative to his volume.

But yeah, tiny scoring guard who can produce double-digit assists, I can see how you got there initially w NOH Paul.

[SelfishPlayer]

I feel it's unfortunate when people conflate having a different opinion with trolling. The NBA is tougher these days than it was in Stockton's day. The result of that is Stockton drops down from being a borderline top 15 player to being borderline top 25-30. Since only 24 guys make an all-star team, he drops out. This shouldn't be regarded as a particularly controversial opinion.

The OP wasn’t super specific about just plopping him out of nowhere via some magical mystery Time Machine. Why do some posters frame every argument like this? (Oh, I know exactly why, it’s a rhetorical question)

Why would he not similarly benefit from modern everything?

Not an all star? Asinine.

I rate guys based on how they actually played, not on how I imagine they might have played in different circumstances. If we rate players that way I can imagine Shaq hitting his FTs, KG as a 50% 3pt shooter, Sheed with a better attitude, Walton with full health thanks to modern medicine, Len Bias if he lived, etc. See the problem?

You HAVE to give some skilled old school perimeter players a bump un this era because the game has been made much easier for perimeter players to succeed. I agree in not changing Stockton's mentality but the painted area is wide open in this era and teams have three point shooters all up and down the roster. Stockton's points absolutely have to increase.

[dhsilv2]

This is actually a fairly interesting one.

Strengths - endurance, durability, hands, shooting, ball control, passing.
Weakness - he's undersized even more today and his build isn't likely to be upgraded with weight training like CP3 where he could have had that thicker mid section to really allow him to body and get physical with larger players.

Misconception - Stockton is a great passer. I'm not sure he's in that all time greats level. A lot of those assists were system generated. That's not a knock btw. He was a more accurate James Harden vs being as craftier and creative as a Kidd or CP3 or a Jokic.

Overall, I think he'd still be an allstar level player (might miss the team itself) anywhere. In the right situations he could be a weak dark horse MVP. I'm not even sure what a point guard is anymore. But I'd assume better than Irving but maybe not Bruson (but maybe just better). So wherever that ranks you in a league of Luka being a point guard...it's confusing.

[dhsilv2]

The OP wasn’t super specific about just plopping him out of nowhere via some magical mystery Time Machine. Why do some posters frame every argument like this? (Oh, I know exactly why, it’s a rhetorical question)

Why would he not similarly benefit from modern everything?

Not an all star? Asinine.

I rate guys based on how they actually played, not on how I imagine they might have played in different circumstances. If we rate players that way I can imagine Shaq hitting his FTs, KG as a 50% 3pt shooter, Sheed with a better attitude, Walton with full health thanks to modern medicine, Len Bias if he lived, etc. See the problem?

You HAVE to give some skilled old school perimeter players a bump un this era because the game has been made much easier for perimeter players to succeed. I agree in not changing Stockton's mentality but the painted area is wide open in this era and teams have three point shooters all up and down the roster. Stockton's points absolutely have to increase.

It's not the point so much as he'd have to get more aggressive at spamming 3's. But the guy had the shot...and when he did pullup quickly he was laser accurate. He still isn't light speed driving the lane nor does he have the height or vertical to finish at the rim at an elite level.

[JRoy]

Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

Stockton would bully and dominate the softies in this era.

[SelfishPlayer]

I rate guys based on how they actually played, not on how I imagine they might have played in different circumstances. If we rate players that way I can imagine Shaq hitting his FTs, KG as a 50% 3pt shooter, Sheed with a better attitude, Walton with full health thanks to modern medicine, Len Bias if he lived, etc. See the problem?

You HAVE to give some skilled old school perimeter players a bump un this era because the game has been made much easier for perimeter players to succeed. I agree in not changing Stockton's mentality but the painted area is wide open in this era and teams have three point shooters all up and down the roster. Stockton's points absolutely have to increase.

It's not the point so much as he'd have to get more aggressive at spamming 3's. But the guy had the shot...and when he did pullup quickly he was laser accurate. He still isn't light speed driving the lane nor does he have the height or vertical to finish at the rim at an elite level.

Stockton doesn't have to change a thing. The game has changed to make him look even better. He shot over 50% from the field for his entire career in a league without a defensive three second and charge circle. As soon as he shows up in this era and sees a 6'8" starting center and 6'6" four man, he already understands the assignment...

[Quattro]

Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

Take a look at the West all-stars, and all the great players who don't make it. There's no chance Stockton is an all-star.

There's no chance you've watched a basketball game played before 2010.

[dhsilv2]

You HAVE to give some skilled old school perimeter players a bump un this era because the game has been made much easier for perimeter players to succeed. I agree in not changing Stockton's mentality but the painted area is wide open in this era and teams have three point shooters all up and down the roster. Stockton's points absolutely have to increase.

It's not the point so much as he'd have to get more aggressive at spamming 3's. But the guy had the shot...and when he did pullup quickly he was laser accurate. He still isn't light speed driving the lane nor does he have the height or vertical to finish at the rim at an elite level.

Stockton doesn't have to change a thing. The game has changed to make him look even better. He shot over 50% from the field for his entire career in a league without a defensive three second and charge circle. As soon as he shows up in this era and sees a 6'8" starting center and 6'6" four man, he already understands the assignment...

Stockton had every opportunity to pull up from 15 or 24 or where ever in his era. Yes, that's going to be a huge change for him. Even Nash years later, he looks back and realizes he needed to pull up on more shots himself. These pass first guys struggle to realize they need to shoot more.

[jazzfan1971]

I get that it is hard to appreciate a player like Stockton unless you watched him play. There really is zero comparison to him today. Game simply lacks a floor general of his caliber. Especially at the PG position.

He would step on the floor and immediately be the best floor General in the league. His team would be vastly better when he was on the floor and many folks just wouldn't be able to comprehend that it was due to Stocktons greatness and not whoever was the player he enabled to rack up points. But people who know, know.

[SelfishPlayer]

It's not the point so much as he'd have to get more aggressive at spamming 3's. But the guy had the shot...and when he did pullup quickly he was laser accurate. He still isn't light speed driving the lane nor does he have the height or vertical to finish at the rim at an elite level.

Stockton doesn't have to change a thing. The game has changed to make him look even better. He shot over 50% from the field for his entire career in a league without a defensive three second and charge circle. As soon as he shows up in this era and sees a 6'8" starting center and 6'6" four man, he already understands the assignment...

Stockton had every opportunity to pull up from 15 or 24 or where ever in his era. Yes, that's going to be a huge change for him. Even Nash years later, he looks back and realizes he needed to pull up on more shots himself. These pass first guys struggle to realize they need to shoot more.

Shooting? His best seasons he went to the free throw line 5.5 times per game. The best PGs today don't normally get to the free throw line that frequently. Stockton understands the assignment in this era, see 6'8' starting center, attack the paint relentlessly.

[Chuck Everett]

Stockton would be a perennial all-star/all-NBA caliber player. What is this foolishness?

[Billl]

The guy was one of the best ever at running an offense and a super efficient player that would thrive in the new analytics era. In terms of skill, I don't think there are any questions. The only real question is whether he could embrace being a higher volume scorer, especially from range. He's obviously always going to be a "pass first" point guard, but he couldn't be a "pass second too" pg as well.

[FollowTheSound]

Best true PG in the league, his shooting and defense would put him above most guards currently and passing ability would be far and above everyone in the league. THen not to mention his leadership which would like be 2nd to maybe only Curry and even then i'm skeptical. Stockton would easily be Top 5 and in my opinion the #1 PG.

Lol over doncic ????????

[jojo4341]

Best true PG in the league, his shooting and defense would put him above most guards currently and passing ability would be far and above everyone in the league. THen not to mention his leadership which would like be 2nd to maybe only Curry and even then i'm skeptical. Stockton would easily be Top 5 and in my opinion the #1 PG.

Lol over doncic ????????

I think he's referring to best TRUE PG...as in, pass first and running the offense, rather than score-first and reacting to the defense. CP3, Jason Kidd, Rondo, Steve Nash fit this mold.

[theonlyclutch]

Best true PG in the league, his shooting and defense would put him above most guards currently and passing ability would be far and above everyone in the league. THen not to mention his leadership which would like be 2nd to maybe only Curry and even then i'm skeptical. Stockton would easily be Top 5 and in my opinion the #1 PG.

Lol over doncic ????????

I think he's referring to best TRUE PG...as in, pass first and running the offense, rather than score-first and reacting to the defense. CP3, Jason Kidd, Rondo, Steve Nash fit this mold.

'Pass-first' PGs as an archetype are obsolete in 2024 lol. In good teams there are often other playmakers who can do the job of scoring and playmaking at the same time. PGs that can't apply good scoring pressure in volume (and that's not Stockton and his career 13 ppg playoffs) just don't get to dominate the ball in a way that is necessary to rack up assist counts like they used to. The closest one is Haliburton and he's still a significantly more aggressive scorer, especially pre-injury.

[Bush4Ever]

To me, the only real question would be his ability to scale his scoring upwards while maintaining reasonable efficiency. IMO, the evidence from his career would suggest he could not do this, especially in the playoffs (edit: meaning, he would be likely to maintain a reasonable efficiency but paired with more modest volume).

In terms of nuts-and-bolts skills, he wouldn't be missing very much, although the PG position is so very rich today.

I would suspect his bottom-line impact in absolute terms wouldn't be *that* different than his era, but his relative impact (to positional peers) would be depressed to some degree, since the positional value seems to have shifted some across eras on-average.

He made the all-star team 10 times in 19 seasons during his career. I could see him floating in and around of the all-star game over the course of his best 15 years, or something like that. But I don't think he would be a yearly selection.