Breaking: Rogers Aquires Bell Stake In MLSE

[Reeko]

Given that the Raptors are by far the most valuable franchise in all of Canadian sports, does Rogers make a concerted effort to promote them and ensure the future success and continued rising valuation of the franchise? Or will he just take it for granted and continue to push the Jays and Leafs, because he is a product of his generation?

[Tripod]

Masai has not collected assets the last 4 years yet...

Acquired a budding star
Aquired a 20+ point 23 year old
Acquired a 17 point 24 year old
Acquired a starting C
Aquired a 20 year old shooter
Added 2 vet bench pieces
Added 2 former 1st rounders still on their rookie deals
Added 4 prospects this draft
Has a 1st and likely high 2nd from Portland next draft
Has 2 1st the following year

We have completely overhauled the team the last 1.5 years. Hell only Barnes and Boucher were here 18 months ago. Oh, and brought in a new coach and lots of new staff.

People can bitch that MU waited too long or didn't do things on their timeline. Whatever, it's done. We ARE building things back up. We DON'T tank from day 1 of the season. MU DOES see value in actually playing for wins. Rogers DOES want people in seats to make more money.

Sit back, enjoy the ride. We are just starting the build back up and building depth on the team and 905. It's going to take some time.

[D.Brasco]

Given that the Raptors are by far the most valuable franchise in all of Canadian sports, does Rogers make a concerted effort to promote them and ensure the future success and continued rising valuation of the franchise? Or will he just take it for granted and continue to push the Jays and Leafs, because he is a product of his generation?

The corporate executive class in the city still values the Leafs over the Raptors and that's who MLSE caters to most. That'll probably change but I wager we're still a decade away.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's getting paid a lot, to do a so/so job at re-building.

[Randle McMurphy]

All I hope is that they keep Ed Rogers as far away as possible from anything to do with the operations and decisions of any of the teams. A restraining order would be nice. lol
He thinks he's a sports guy. He desperately wants to be a sports guy. He's not a sports guy. He's clueless and any leagues where he's tried to interject himself have basically seen him as a joke and just ignore him and speak to Larry T.
I'm curious as to whether Keith Pelley survives after this deal is completed. It's widely presumed he was brought in to be the buffer between ownership and operations. With Rogers working its way toward 100% ownership (buying BCE out in 2025 with an option to purchase Kilmer's 25% in 2026), I'm betting Ed wants unfettered access to get his grubby little hands all over everything.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Ed Rogers has anything to do with baseball operations for the Jays (beyond approving Shapiro for unprecedented organizational payrolls the last few seasons), so I have no idea why that would worry anybody with the Raptors.

He'll get rid of Masai and bring in someone else as president/GM, which has been badly needed for years now. We might finally have a direction and a plan again beyond treadmilling for 8th place every season.

[Reeko]

All I hope is that they keep Ed Rogers as far away as possible from anything to do with the operations and decisions of any of the teams. A restraining order would be nice. lol
He thinks he's a sports guy. He desperately wants to be a sports guy. He's not a sports guy. He's clueless and any leagues where he's tried to interject himself have basically seen him as a joke and just ignore him and speak to Larry T.
I'm curious as to whether Keith Pelley survives after this deal is completed. It's widely presumed he was brought in to be the buffer between ownership and operations. With Rogers working its way toward 100% ownership (buying BCE out in 2025 with an option to purchase Kilmer's 25% in 2026), I'm betting Ed wants unfettered access to get his grubby little hands all over everything.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Ed Rogers has anything to do with baseball operations for the Jays (beyond approving Shapiro for unprecedented organizational payrolls the last few seasons), so I have no idea why that would worry anybody with the Raptors.

He'll get rid of Masai and bring in someone else as president/GM, which has been badly needed for years now. We might finally have a direction and a plan again beyond treadmilling for 8th place every season.

How do you know that Masai hasn't been carrying out exactly what ownership has been asking him to do for the past few seasons? How do you know that he didn't have directions to try to get into the playoffs?

Just blindly believing that Masai will get fired and by some miracle Ed Rogers will hire someone more competent is fascinating to me.

[Randle McMurphy]

How do you know that Masai hasn't been carrying out exactly what ownership has been asking him to do for the past few seasons? How do you know that he didn't have directions to try to get into the playoffs?

You're blaming his treadmilling and awful mismanagement on MLSE now?

Masai has the power and influence in this organization since 2019 to push whatever plan/strategy he's wanted to and the path he chose was this. He's said as much on numerous occasions and even apologized for his mistakes in terms of asset management.

Just blindly believing that Masai will get fired and by some miracle Ed Rogers will hire someone more competent is fascinating to me.

Masai is definitely gone once his contract is up with Ed around, that much is clear. And virtually anybody would be more competent than the executive Masai has been this decade. He's been objectively terrible at the job since the 2020 offseason.

[Corson27]

All I hope is that they keep Ed Rogers as far away as possible from anything to do with the operations and decisions of any of the teams. A restraining order would be nice. lol
He thinks he's a sports guy. He desperately wants to be a sports guy. He's not a sports guy. He's clueless and any leagues where he's tried to interject himself have basically seen him as a joke and just ignore him and speak to Larry T.
I'm curious as to whether Keith Pelley survives after this deal is completed. It's widely presumed he was brought in to be the buffer between ownership and operations. With Rogers working its way toward 100% ownership (buying BCE out in 2025 with an option to purchase Kilmer's 25% in 2026), I'm betting Ed wants unfettered access to get his grubby little hands all over everything.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Ed Rogers has anything to do with baseball operations for the Jays (beyond approving Shapiro for unprecedented organizational payrolls the last few seasons), so I have no idea why that would worry anybody with the Raptors.

He'll get rid of Masai and bring in someone else as president/GM, which has been badly needed for years now. We might finally have a direction and a plan again beyond treadmilling for 8th place every season.

Ed Rogers has also signed off on hundreds of millions on complete stadium renovations in addition to spending 200M+ on payroll for a few years now.

[Reeko]

How do you know that Masai hasn't been carrying out exactly what ownership has been asking him to do for the past few seasons? How do you know that he didn't have directions to try to get into the playoffs?

You're blaming his treadmilling and awful mismanagement on MLSE now?

Masai has the power and influence in this organization since 2019 to push whatever plan/strategy he's wanted to and the path he chose was this. He's said as much on numerous occasions and even apologized for his mistakes in terms of asset management.

Just blindly believing that Masai will get fired and by some miracle Ed Rogers will hire someone more competent is fascinating to me.

Masai is definitely gone once his contract is up with Ed around, that much is clear. And virtually anybody would be more competent than the executive Masai has been this decade. He's been objectively terrible at the job since the 2020 offseason.

I'm not blaming it on anyone, what I'm saying is that you don't know that he didn't have a mandate to prolong the success of the team and to keep making those post season dollars. It's your assumption that he could go to ownership and say "Hey, we're gonna punt the next 2-3 years and hope to land some high draft picks."

Oh he probably is gone once his contract is up, of that I have little doubt. But no, virtually anybody would not be more competent than Masai. He's made some questionable decisions over the last few years but over the long haul ie the next 5 seasons, I would trust this franchise in his hands more than anyone outside of 2 or 3 executives in the league.

[agkagk]

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.

Yeah, this is right in the same vein as the "This is what the tankers wanted" at the end of last season when we didn't even have a pick.

...did you skip the quote I was replying to? the dude predicted this:

"We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season."

Isn't that exactly what tankers want? Painful seasons until we get some lottery luck? You tank until you hit. Or have I been reading a different message board.

Good thing we aren’t tanking.

[agkagk]

Masai has not collected assets the last 4 years yet...

Acquired a budding star
Aquired a 20+ point 23 year old
Acquired a 17 point 24 year old
Acquired a starting C
Aquired a 20 year old shooter
Added 2 vet bench pieces
Added 2 former 1st rounders still on their rookie deals
Added 4 prospects this draft
Has a 1st and likely high 2nd from Portland next draft
Has 2 1st the following year

We have completely overhauled the team the last 1.5 years. Hell only Barnes and Boucher were here 18 months ago. Oh, and brought in a new coach and lots of new staff.

People can bitch that MU waited too long or didn't do things on their timeline. Whatever, it's done. We ARE building things back up. We DON'T tank from day 1 of the season. MU DOES see value in actually playing for wins. Rogers DOES want people in seats to make more money.

Sit back, enjoy the ride. We are just starting the build back up and building depth on the team and 905. It's going to take some time.

Yup that’s a 500 team

[maternal85]

All I hope is that they keep Ed Rogers as far away as possible from anything to do with the operations and decisions of any of the teams. A restraining order would be nice. lol
He thinks he's a sports guy. He desperately wants to be a sports guy. He's not a sports guy. He's clueless and any leagues where he's tried to interject himself have basically seen him as a joke and just ignore him and speak to Larry T.
I'm curious as to whether Keith Pelley survives after this deal is completed. It's widely presumed he was brought in to be the buffer between ownership and operations. With Rogers working its way toward 100% ownership (buying BCE out in 2025 with an option to purchase Kilmer's 25% in 2026), I'm betting Ed wants unfettered access to get his grubby little hands all over everything.

There's no evidence whatsoever that Ed Rogers has anything to do with baseball operations for the Jays (beyond approving Shapiro for unprecedented organizational payrolls the last few seasons), so I have no idea why that would worry anybody with the Raptors.

He'll get rid of Masai and bring in someone else as president/GM, which has been badly needed for years now. We might finally have a direction and a plan again beyond treadmilling for 8th place every season.

We've been a treadmilling, 8th place team since entering the league. MU was literally the only GM that broke that cycle and won us a title. Stop getting emotional.

[PushDaRock]

How do you know that Masai hasn't been carrying out exactly what ownership has been asking him to do for the past few seasons? How do you know that he didn't have directions to try to get into the playoffs?

You're blaming his treadmilling and awful mismanagement on MLSE now?

Masai has the power and influence in this organization since 2019 to push whatever plan/strategy he's wanted to and the path he chose was this. He's said as much on numerous occasions and even apologized for his mistakes in terms of asset management.

Just blindly believing that Masai will get fired and by some miracle Ed Rogers will hire someone more competent is fascinating to me.

Masai is definitely gone once his contract is up with Ed around, that much is clear. And virtually anybody would be more competent than the executive Masai has been this decade. He's been objectively terrible at the job since the 2020 offseason.

The idea that he treadmills every season is just incredibly odd.

53-19
27-45
48-34
41-41
25-57

I don't really know how you look at the variance in our win loss record the last 5 years and say we have just been treadmilling. There are excellent, very good, mediocre and terrible seasons all mixed in there.

[Randle McMurphy]

It’s like reading this place back in 2012 with as many Masai apologists as there are still. I honestly think he’d get a 10+ year free pass of mediocrity from MLSE if it wasn’t for Rogers taking over.

[C_Money]

It’s like reading this place back in 2012 with as many Masai apologists as there are still. I honestly think he’d get a 10+ year free pass of mediocrity from MLSE if it wasn’t for Rogers taking over.

Breh its 10X worse on Reddit. The Masai we Trust crowd has all gone there.

[Anticon]

With a few days to sink in and reading some of the bay street analysis of this, think we actually see a different situation from the neglect of the Raptors many of us are foreseeing: the Raptors and maybe Toronto FC being spun off from MLSE.

Rogers will never sell the Jays and Leafs. But the financial or shareholder pressures look to be inevitable here, and if they're looking for a quick cash infusion from a business they don't really really get or care about, selling the soccer and basketball assets is the obvious choice. The Raptors will make the most sense given the value relative to the other teams and the cultural attachment to the others by Bay Street. If they bid for NHL rights the pressure will be even stronger.

The Raptors have had four ownership changes now in 30 years, from the original sale to MLSE, to OTPP, to Bell/Rogers, to now. So it's a matter of when, not if, another one comes, and a full spin off, hopefully to a Tannenbaum or Ken Thomson type owner, is a real possibility I think.

So patience! And who knows, maybe when Larry T's shares come up, Larry T gives up his share of the Leafs and takes full control of the Raptors, paying Rogers the difference. That seems more likely than the whole IPO idea.

[Kingsway_fan]

He's getting paid a lot, to do a so/so job at re-building.

What does that say then about The Leafs and the Jay's... perennial losers.

[Michael Bradley]

You knew there was imminent ownership change, a little sooner than expected. Overall, Jays (Rogers has been majority? owner since 2000) record hasn't been great but not terrible with them in charge. 2015 club was a legit Word Series contender, they just fell short. The 3 major sports leagues are quite different and require different styles. It all comes down to who their guys pick for GMs and their respective visions.

Yes the 2015 and 2016 jays were great but then Rogers replaced AA the guy who built those great teams with 2 clowns who have made the product terrible this year. The worry is not that they will replace Masai but that they'll bring in ineffectual people like Shapiro and Atkins.

Since 2000, when Rogers acquired the Jays, the team has made the playoffs 5* times. They won two playoff series during that span.

*One of those five times was during the 60-game COVID-shortened season when the team was barely hovering above .500 with a negative run differential and would have certainly missed the playoffs during a full length season.

And even when Ed lucked out into a good FO, he botched it by forcing them out.

People crying about the state of the Raptors right now either don't remember how difficult being a Blue Jays fan over the last 25 years has been, or they choose not to remember. It's comical to think that the family (now headed by the idiot son) who ran that dumpster fire for 25 years are somehow competent owners all of a sudden.

It's fine to decry the state of the Raptors right now (I actively complain about this team). But to think that Ed Rogers is this team's saviour is so deluded I can't believe the posts aren't made in jest.

On the morning of July 29 2015, the Jays under AA were 446-465 in his tenure with 0 playoff appearances and 0 seasons above 85 wins. He then traded 12 prospects at the deadline to build what was essentially a 15 month competitive window when he already had one foot out the door. At what point was Ed not justified in looking for a replacement front office? He had already hired Shapiro by August of that year, which was before that magical 2 months to end 2015 concluded. It's not like the Jays finished 2015, and then Ed started a search for new front office. He did it when it looked like the team was going to miss the playoffs again and AA was already a lame duck hired by the president who was leaving (Beeston). A lot of revisionist history with AA's departure.

The team that AA built was old and expensive with nothing in the upper minors to supplement it. If you think the farm system now is bad, it was worse by the end of 2015 since Vlad was 17 and just signed. If Rogers had kept AA and given him more power, the team still would have had to rebuild in 2017-19 like it did with Shatkins. Only difference is AA wouldn't have been able to work with the Dodgers for 2 years (which likely helped him become a better GM) and he wouldn't have inherited Freeman, Acuna, Albies, Fried, etc, like he did in Atlanta. He would have had to develop those players himself, which he wasn't very successful with in Toronto.

Ed being the Raptors "savior", which I don't think anyone has argued, is just as hyperbolic as "Ed is going destroy this org because he did it with the Jays". I'd argue the latter is more hyperbolic between the two options.

[KG1585]

I do it find it funny that Randall is saying Masai has been mediocre while defending Shapiro, who has 10 years of mediocrity. Put Masai's 10 year record against Atkins, will truly stand out how bad Atkins has been for the Jays. Considering that Ed brought Shapiro in, not so confident in him picking a replacement for Masai. That white supremacist trust fund baby should be no where near the Raps.

[deck]

It’s like reading this place back in 2012 with as many Masai apologists as there are still. I honestly think he’d get a 10+ year free pass of mediocrity from MLSE if it wasn’t for Rogers taking over.

What do you expect? With Masai as GM we have improved dramatically as a team and as an organization. And even with the FO under-performing since the championship, we are still far more relevant and less mediocre than pretty much all of the years prior to Masai taking over.

I would also suggest things are not nearly as dire as you are making them out to be. Simple thought experiment; what non-Masai managed Raptors roster would you take to start a franchise ahead of the roster we have right now? The 1998 - 2000 rosters for sure, maybe the 2006/2007 roster, but are there any others? So maybe 3-4 seasons in the entire history of the franchise were better setup going forward than we are right now?

It's perfectly reasonable to suggest it is time to move on from Masai and that the organization needs change. Whats silly is calling people who don't feel that way 'apologists' or insinuating that people that do still support the FO somehow hold a less informed position than yourself.