Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[drsd]

Huh?

They upgraded a .375% shooter on 3.8 attempts for a .400% shooter on 4.1 attempts. Mosely ran the same lineup for the last 20 games of the season and playoffs. Still looked bad. Suggs was “point guard” in that time and Paolo/Franz “ran” the offense.

Teams results were mainly from defense. They weren’t a good team offensively. The front office literally doubled down on Moselys rotation for the last 20-25 games of the season and gave them more depth by bringing everyone except Joe Ingles back.

Post allstar break, in the 17 games the Magic started Suggs and Harris in the backcourt, they had an ortg of 115 which would’ve made them a top 10 offense post ASB, and top 15 if they’d sustained that for the season. But for 10 games they had other lineups which dragged the ortg down to 112 for that Post ASB period.

It may not be your preferred offense, but it was working and the stats back it up. And yeah, now they’ve added a better version of Gary Harris to that mix along with player growth so there’s very good odds we won’t be the bottom 10 offense people worry about.

And-1

I am super excited as Caldwell-Pope is a Quantum improvement over Harris on offense; and sliding Harris to the bench, he is a QUANTUM improvement over Fultz on bench offense.

Orlando will finally have five players on offense running set plays. That basically did not happen all season last season. The 4-on-5 game plans sucked; that's done.

Suggs/Caldwell-Pope/F-Wagner/Banchero/Carter is a starting five I project to be a top10-to-15 offense. Couple to it also probably being a top-2 defense, I have Orlando penciled in to be a 50-win roster in the 2024/25 season.

[Rainwater]

In light of the Diddy stuff, I wonder if Dwight will be implicated along with others around the NBA. His prime/fame aligned with the height of Diddy’s party scene. Hell, even Obama once said that no one throws a party like Diddy…

I think people misconstrue Diddy’s famous parties with his “freak offs”. I really don’t think those who went to his famous white parties went to his “freak offs”. His “freaks offs” seem to be for his own private pleasure with random women, girlfriends, and pornstars. It was his after party. I doubt you see a list with many celebrities.

I feel like whenever a celebrity, be it Jeffery Epstein or Diddy, gets in one of these cases people expect other celebrities to be involved. I really don’t think that is the case. Just because a friend did a wrong doesn’t necessarily mean you did a wrong because you were around him (unless you were there when they committed the crime). I think the same stands with celebrities.

You’re not wrong but you wouldn’t have to do anything illegal to get embarrassed by secretly recorded tapes though… especially hearing about nearly every room in Diddy’s homes having hidden cameras in them.

This is true. However, I don’t think tapes will be released by the feds unless it pertained to the case. Meaning Dwight or some other celebrity would have to be involved which I doubt will be the case.

[JoshuaPotter]

Ok ill say it because nobody else has.

Suggs could still become our no 1 option. It just isn't likely.

Paolo + Franz are amazing talents and will get our max contract. The fact of the matter is, I haven't entirely given up on Suggs offensive development. Maybe after this year we close the door.

Anthony Black also has a long way to go, but shouldn't be ruled out.

The closest to "sure things" we have either are getting paid (Injury Isaac), or Franz + Paolo + KCP. This is simple to me.

I know you said it’s not likely to happen, but I have no clue how you came to this conclusion. Suggs has no shot at being the number one option on this team.

He doesn’t lead the team in the assists. He is not the one creating for others. Most of his points are due to the creation of others. His assists numbers have decreased. His ppg and fga have stagnated. There is no indication he is much more than a 3 and D guy right now.

I dont want to say it as if I am speaking bad about Suggs. Let just assume that money motivates him, as much as he loves winning and playing for this team.

If the only way he is to get a max contract is if pigs fly. IE become no 1 option on offense. Then, because he has all the motivation to earn said contract in the world. Lets assume its improbable, but not impossible. The only other player I see possible to make such a leap is AB. Again, possible, is not probability here. But both Suggs + Black are young and on paper could turn it around.

After this season, possible becomes perhaps impossible unless we are tanking. Heaven forbid.

[VFX]

Huh?

They upgraded a .375% shooter on 3.8 attempts for a .400% shooter on 4.1 attempts. Mosely ran the same lineup for the last 20 games of the season and playoffs. Still looked bad. Suggs was “point guard” in that time and Paolo/Franz “ran” the offense.

Teams results were mainly from defense. They weren’t a good team offensively. The front office literally doubled down on Moselys rotation for the last 20-25 games of the season and gave them more depth by bringing everyone except Joe Ingles back.

Post allstar break, in the 17 games the Magic started Suggs and Harris in the backcourt, they had an ortg of 115 which would’ve made them a top 10 offense post ASB, and top 15 if they’d sustained that for the season. But for 10 games they had other lineups which dragged the ortg down to 112 for that Post ASB period.

It may not be your preferred offense, but it was working and the stats back it up. And yeah, now they’ve added a better version of Gary Harris to that mix along with player growth so there’s very good odds we won’t be the bottom 10 offense people worry about.

Offensive rating on 26 games sample size matters if your competition is good enough to test you. Magic's schedule wasn't good enough to really concur strong conclusions.

This was Magic's 26 games schedule post allstar :
Cavs
Pistons
Hawks
Nets
Jazz
Pistons
Hornets
Wizards
Nets
Pacers
Nets
Raptors
Raptors
Hornets
Pelicans
Kings
Warriors
Grizzlies
Blazers
Pelicans
Hornets
Bulls
Rockers
Bucks
76ers
Bucks


This list and my separation between good- blue and red- bad teams needs deeper dive.
Bulls
Kings
Warriors
Rockets

didn't make playoffs.

Hawks were marked red as bad due sheer fact they lost 7 games in a row at the end and had ugly 36-46 record, but still made play-in due how uncompetitive bottom of East actually is.

Once you single all this out, out of 26 games Magic played, 19 were against teams that either sucked badly or failed to make playoffs.
Under such conditions, you should take "top 10 offense " with reservation.

In at least 11 out of those 26 games, opposing team's GMs had intention of losing on purpose for tanking purpose.

If you look January for example, where Magic played 9/13 games against strong opponents,
offensive rating: 111,7 (6th worst)
defense 113,7 (7th best)
net rating -2,2 ( 19# )

Magic offense works only and just only against teams that can't defend. That's why they are so superior against bad teams. They allow them more transition points and don't defend well in general.
We were 28-7 vs below .500 teams
But also 19-28 vs above .500 teams

Even when Cavs lost second best individual defender ( or the best) in Allen, Magic still struggled to put points on board. Lost all games where we failed to put 100 points on board. In first two games failed to even crack 90 points.

Offense was noticeably bad in that series. Notably in away games, which is a trademark for a young team.

The solution was exactly what I have said since the middle of last season; getting Paolo and Franz in better spots on the floor for easier looks at the rim.

The FO decided to go with what a lot of people here were chirping, including Paul George (career choking loser), that believe surrounding a poor distributor/facilitator black hole with shooters will make everything better. I already know it wont work. Why? Because adding a slightly better version of Gary Harris doesn't change the flawed system or change everyone else's skill sets dramatically.

[Bensational]

Even when Cavs lost second best individual defender ( or the best) in Allen, Magic still struggled to put points on board. Lost all games where we failed to put 100 points on board. In first two games failed to even crack 90 points.

Offense was noticeably bad in that series. Notably in away games, which is a trademark for a young team.

The offense was only bad in away games in that series. The Magic blew them out of the water at home. Did you forget that the team won 3 games? And in those wins the Magic offense was blisteringly hot.

And yeah, they’re young, so you know what you do? You give them another season to see if they develop beyond that and learn to win the away games, too.

[VFX]

Even when Cavs lost second best individual defender ( or the best) in Allen, Magic still struggled to put points on board. Lost all games where we failed to put 100 points on board. In first two games failed to even crack 90 points.

Offense was noticeably bad in that series. Notably in away games, which is a trademark for a young team.

The offense was only bad in away games in that series. The Magic blew them out of the water at home. Did you forget that the team won 3 games? And in those wins the Magic offense was blisteringly hot.

And yeah, they’re young, so you know what you do? You give them another season to see if they develop beyond that and learn to win the away games, too.

Or you could help them develop better habits by surrounding them with talent that actually makes sense and also results in winning. You don't force them to play with mismatching skill sets of players that were here before they were acquired because you are too lazy to find alternatives.

[BadMofoPimp]

I think people misconstrue Diddy’s famous parties with his “freak offs”. I really don’t think those who went to his famous white parties went to his “freak offs”. His “freaks offs” seem to be for his own private pleasure with random women, girlfriends, and pornstars. It was his after party. I doubt you see a list with many celebrities.

I feel like whenever a celebrity, be it Jeffery Epstein or Diddy, gets in one of these cases people expect other celebrities to be involved. I really don’t think that is the case. Just because a friend did a wrong doesn’t necessarily mean you did a wrong because you were around him (unless you were there when they committed the crime). I think the same stands with celebrities.

You’re not wrong but you wouldn’t have to do anything illegal to get embarrassed by secretly recorded tapes though… especially hearing about nearly every room in Diddy’s homes having hidden cameras in them.

This is true. However, I don’t think tapes will be released by the feds unless it pertained to the case. Meaning Dwight or some other celebrity would have to be involved which I doubt will be the case.

He has the evidence to keep people from testifying against him.

[Bensational]

Offense was noticeably bad in that series. Notably in away games, which is a trademark for a young team.

The offense was only bad in away games in that series. The Magic blew them out of the water at home. Did you forget that the team won 3 games? And in those wins the Magic offense was blisteringly hot.

And yeah, they’re young, so you know what you do? You give them another season to see if they develop beyond that and learn to win the away games, too.

Or you could help them develop better habits by surrounding them with talent that actually makes sense and also results in winning. You don't force them to play with mismatching skill sets of players that were here before they were acquired because you are too lazy to find alternatives.

My god you talk absolute rubbish and nonsense.

[BadMofoPimp]

Offense was noticeably bad in that series. Notably in away games, which is a trademark for a young team.

The offense was only bad in away games in that series. The Magic blew them out of the water at home. Did you forget that the team won 3 games? And in those wins the Magic offense was blisteringly hot.

And yeah, they’re young, so you know what you do? You give them another season to see if they develop beyond that and learn to win the away games, too.

Or you could help them develop better habits by surrounding them with talent that actually makes sense and also results in winning. You don't force them to play with mismatching skill sets of players that were here before they were acquired because you are too lazy to find alternatives.

I think this talent is just fine and am excited to watch them develop. These Magic are gonna provem all wrong!!!

[drsd]

Please make the next two weeks go by quickly.

p.s. I already bought my international NBA league pass in preparation for a 50-win season!
£120 is a lot of coin, but GO MAGIC.

Today's video of boredom.

Watch on YouTube

[drsd]

Today's cat video. It's the ending that makes this "work"

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iBhty4CVQZc

[fendilim]

Huh?

They upgraded a .375% shooter on 3.8 attempts for a .400% shooter on 4.1 attempts. Mosely ran the same lineup for the last 20 games of the season and playoffs. Still looked bad. Suggs was “point guard” in that time and Paolo/Franz “ran” the offense.

Teams results were mainly from defense. They weren’t a good team offensively. The front office literally doubled down on Moselys rotation for the last 20-25 games of the season and gave them more depth by bringing everyone except Joe Ingles back.

Post allstar break, in the 17 games the Magic started Suggs and Harris in the backcourt, they had an ortg of 115 which would’ve made them a top 10 offense post ASB, and top 15 if they’d sustained that for the season. But for 10 games they had other lineups which dragged the ortg down to 112 for that Post ASB period.

It may not be your preferred offense, but it was working and the stats back it up. And yeah, now they’ve added a better version of Gary Harris to that mix along with player growth so there’s very good odds we won’t be the bottom 10 offense people worry about.

And-1

I am super excited as Caldwell-Pope is a Quantum improvement over Harris on offense; and sliding Harris to the bench, he is a QUANTUM improvement over Fultz on bench offense.

Orlando will finally have five players on offense running set plays. That basically did not happen all season last season. The 4-on-5 game plans sucked; that's done.

Suggs/Caldwell-Pope/F-Wagner/Banchero/Carter is a starting five I project to be a top10-to-15 offense. Couple to it also probably being a top-2 defense, I have Orlando penciled in to be a 50-win roster in the 2024/25 season.

I do agree that we did improve our starting five. But there is no way we go 50, unless Mo already has a plan on how to run the 2nd unit.

I think our 2nd lineup regressed. We had one of the best bench unit last year and losing the top 2 ball handlers of that unit isn’t gonna help, moreso replacing Fultz with Harris. As much as I hate Fultz, what he brings to the table as an offensive initiator is badly needed for the second unit. Cole is too erratic to be relied upon, small sample size on Black.

Last year, the motor of that second unit was Joe, especially when plays were broken down, we could rely on him in a pick and roll situation. Who are we projecting to do that this coming season?

Tbh, we did improve defensively, but regressed offensively. We replaced two offensive initiators for more 3 and D. Kcp and tristan. Both are better overall, but we need more of what Joe and Fultz brings to the table, imo.

[RichCollab]

From a playoff rotation perspective I feel like we improved a lot.

Ingles was unplayable in the playoffs and Fultz minutes were below mediocre.

We added KCP and Paolo, Franz and Suggs have gained great experience.

JI can possibly increase his minutes per game in the playoffs.

Ingles added a lot to the second unit during the regular season for sure but I am pretty excited to see what Black can add.

Fultz never looked himself any part of the season. He was much better the season before last. I don’t see any drop off from Fultz leaving.

Nets will also be looking to move players for 1st picks at the trade deadline we may be able to bolster the rotation with a player from the Nets.

[jezzerinho]

From a playoff rotation perspective I feel like we improved a lot.

Ingles was unplayable in the playoffs and Fultz minutes were below mediocre.

We added KCP and Paolo, Franz and Suggs have gained great experience.

JI can possibly increase his minutes per game in the playoffs.

Ingles added a lot to the second unit during the regular season for sure but I am pretty excited to see what Black can add.

Fultz never looked himself any part of the season. He was much better the season before last. I don’t see any drop off from Fultz leaving.

Nets will also be looking to move players for 1st picks at the trade deadline we may be able to bolster the rotation with a player from the Nets.

I think you're both right. We're prob a worse regular season team but a better playoff team. Obviously if Black and Howard show us something new and better, that changes things.

[VFX]

A lot of this is nonsense.

If the Magic are better next season it will be due to internal development. Replacing Gary Harris with a slightly better Gary Harris is a minimal upgrade. KCP won’t have the luxury of playing in a well seasoned offense, next to a HOF former 3x MVP, as the 4th option.

For the record, I expect the Magic to be better next season due to Fultz and Ingles no longer getting minutes with internal development from the core. The Magic are deeper, but It all comes down to health.

The Magic got better in terms of depth and addition by subtraction. They changed nothing about the system from the last 15-20 games + playoffs.

[VFX]

From a playoff rotation perspective I feel like we improved a lot.

Ingles was unplayable in the playoffs and Fultz minutes were below mediocre.

We added KCP and Paolo, Franz and Suggs have gained great experience.

JI can possibly increase his minutes per game in the playoffs.

Ingles added a lot to the second unit during the regular season for sure but I am pretty excited to see what Black can add.

Fultz never looked himself any part of the season. He was much better the season before last. I don’t see any drop off from Fultz leaving.

Nets will also be looking to move players for 1st picks at the trade deadline we may be able to bolster the rotation with a player from the Nets.

I think you're both right. We're prob a worse regular season team but a better playoff team. Obviously if Black and Howard show us something new and better, that changes things.

Is Black and Howard taking minutes from Cole and Gary as backups? Don’t see that happening.

[fendilim]

From a playoff rotation perspective I feel like we improved a lot.

Ingles was unplayable in the playoffs and Fultz minutes were below mediocre.

We added KCP and Paolo, Franz and Suggs have gained great experience.

JI can possibly increase his minutes per game in the playoffs.

Ingles added a lot to the second unit during the regular season for sure but I am pretty excited to see what Black can add.

Fultz never looked himself any part of the season. He was much better the season before last. I don’t see any drop off from Fultz leaving.

Nets will also be looking to move players for 1st picks at the trade deadline we may be able to bolster the rotation with a player from the Nets.

I think you're both right. We're prob a worse regular season team but a better playoff team. Obviously if Black and Howard show us something new and better, that changes things.

Is Black and Howard taking minutes from Cole and Gary as backups? Don’t see that happening.

They probably wont at the start, but things could change midseason. Assuming we keep the same rotation, we’re not going anywhere with a lineup of Cole/Harris/Tristan/Ji/Moe.

[fendilim]

From a playoff rotation perspective I feel like we improved a lot.

Ingles was unplayable in the playoffs and Fultz minutes were below mediocre.

We added KCP and Paolo, Franz and Suggs have gained great experience.

JI can possibly increase his minutes per game in the playoffs.

Ingles added a lot to the second unit during the regular season for sure but I am pretty excited to see what Black can add.

Fultz never looked himself any part of the season. He was much better the season before last. I don’t see any drop off from Fultz leaving.

Nets will also be looking to move players for 1st picks at the trade deadline we may be able to bolster the rotation with a player from the Nets.

The playoffs are more isolation game, and teams are more inclined to attack our weakness. Having less players able to create scoring opportunities will make our offense more poignant to watch.

[drsd]

They probably wont at the start, but things could change midseason. Assuming we keep the same rotation, we’re not going anywhere with a lineup of Cole/Harris/Tristan/Ji/Moe.

Assuming you accept that Suggs/Caldwell-Pope/F-Wagner/Banchero/Carter are the starting five, I am not sure I agree with your depth chat for the bench.

da Silva is not getting minutes over Black. That means:
Anthony/Harris/Black/Isaac/M-Wagner would be the current bench.


I just with the Magic would trade Anthony and either Houstan or Howard for a solid back-up SF. That mini-consolidation would make a lot of sense. Someone like Corey Kispert, as one example.

My dream is thus this 10-man rotation :
Suggs/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Harris
F-Wagner/some Dude
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/M-Wagner

I really like that starting five and that bench.


But still: And then what for Bitadze, a clear NBA level talent? Orlando is not gonna run a 11-man rotation.

[VFX]

They probably wont at the start, but things could change midseason. Assuming we keep the same rotation, we’re not going anywhere with a lineup of Cole/Harris/Tristan/Ji/Moe.

Assuming you accept that Suggs/Caldwell-Pope/F-Wagner/Banchero/Carter are the starting five, I am not sure I agree with your depth chat for the bench.

da Silva is not getting minutes over Black. That means:
Anthony/Harris/Black/Isaac/M-Wagner would be the current bench.


I just with the Magic would trade Anthony and either Houstan or Howard for a solid back-up SF. That mini-consolidation would make a lot of sense. Someone like Corey Kispert, as one example.

My dream is thus this 10-man rotation :
Suggs/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Harris
F-Wagner/some Dude
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/M-Wagner

I really like that starting five and that bench.


But still: And then what for Bitadze, a clear NBA level talent? Orlando is not gonna run a 11-man rotation.

We’ve been over this ad nauseam.

Anthony Black is a 20 year old point guard.
Tristan da Silva is a 23 year old SF/PF.

The Front Office didn’t spend a first round pick on a player this age, while not retaining Ingles, to play Anthony Black over him. Let alone, placed out of position, because that would happen to make you feel better.

da Silva is taking those minutes. He’s ready now at 23. His ceiling isn’t Blacks, but his floor is higher right now.