Breaking: Rogers Aquires Bell Stake In MLSE

[Los_29]

AA is pretty much just like Kyle Dubas, incredibly skilled at manipulating the media and articulating strategies to an niche of fans that want to feel like they're smarter than other fans. This type of personality thrives on message boards (like realgm, see Sam Presti). Fan interaction moved from what happened in the games to chess pieces.

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team. He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

AA's teams have gone to 4 conference finals, winning 1 title in the last 10 years. He is an elite executive.

Sam Presti is also an elite executive. The guy built two separate contenders in the NBA's smallest market in a period of 17 years. That's an incredible feat.

I'm not sure why you are comparing these guys to Dubas, whose teams have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs just once in his career. A much better comparison for Dubas is Atkins. A pseudo-nerd who pretends to understand analytics (but doesn't) and struggles to get results (although even Dubas has managed to achieve more than Atkins).

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team.

He certainly won't move the team. Why would any owner, given their valuation? But he absolutely isn't incentivized to put on a "good show". You don't hire Mark Shapiro to run your team if that's your goal. Mark Shapiro was literally the poster child for mediocrity in MLB before we hired him (and it's a title he continues to hold onto).

He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

Shutting down the 905 would be antithetical to "wanting to put on a good show" (player development is kind of important to putting on a good show), but would absolutely be on brand for Ed, who is cheap and doesn't care about winning.

I have no problem with Masai getting fired. I've been as critical as anyone of him over the last few seasons. But if the one selecting his replacement is Ed, we're going to be in for many, many years of suffering as fans.

AA inherited an incredible team in Atlanta. He didn’t draft or acquire any of the major pieces from that World Series team. He’s a good GM but left our team in a mess and had a .500 record with us.

Presti is yet to win a championship and his whole team’s success is built around SGA who he would have never acquired had it been for Kawhi. The Giddey and Dieng picks flopped, he traded the Sengun pick for nothing. Chet and Jwill are nice young players but I question how well they’d do leading a team without SGA.

[Randle McMurphy]

this is a pretty dumb take b/c masai delivered a championship. so that's on the resume and something that nobody thought would ever happen so yes, that buys you some time.

secondly, i, as a fan, have no control over anything. so it comes down to how you want to be a fan. if you want to whine and complain over stuff you can't control, then it's your right, just like it's other people's rights to think you are a whiner and complainer.

if he quits or is let go...then fine. on to the next exec and hope he wins. it ain't that deep and it ain't that personal. none of this is influenced by any of the idiots that post on online forums.

I should have added that it's even worse than BC's apologists in 2012 here exactly because Masai won a championship. These endless posts from his backers defending his (self-admitted) mismanagement remind me of how it was then but even on a grander scale.

So many have been so willing to ignore his enormous failures as an executive this decade because he won five years ago and that isn't any way to bring this team back to relevance. Fortunately, we're soon going to have an owner who almost certainly won't give him that free pass.

Masai's career record as an executive is 660-452 (.594). His teams won 50+ games 6 times. He has 1 title. He's been one of the most successful executives in baskeball over the the last 15 years.

Case in point.

[Reeko]

this is a pretty dumb take b/c masai delivered a championship. so that's on the resume and something that nobody thought would ever happen so yes, that buys you some time.

secondly, i, as a fan, have no control over anything. so it comes down to how you want to be a fan. if you want to whine and complain over stuff you can't control, then it's your right, just like it's other people's rights to think you are a whiner and complainer.

if he quits or is let go...then fine. on to the next exec and hope he wins. it ain't that deep and it ain't that personal. none of this is influenced by any of the idiots that post on online forums.

I should have added that it's even worse than BC's apologists in 2012 here exactly because Masai won a championship. These endless posts from his backers defending his (self-admitted) mismanagement remind me of how it was then but even on a grander scale.

So many have been so willing to ignore his enormous failures as an executive this decade because he won five years ago and that isn't any way to bring this team back to relevance. Fortunately, we're soon going to have an owner who almost certainly won't give him that free pass.

Masai's career record as an executive is 660-452 (.594). His teams won 50+ games 6 times. He has 1 title. He's been one of the most successful executives in basketball over the the last 15 years.

Lol did BC even have any apologists by 2012? Of course there would be considerably more Masai apologists because he's accomplished considerably more.

Is it not clear to Randle that even Masai's "apologists" acknowledge that he has mismanaged the team these last 3 or 4 years and that inherently they are not opposed to him being replaced? Most of us are fine with the idea that we could and likely will move on from Masai, our issue lies with people thinking that Ed Rogers is the owner/savior that this franchise needs to lead it moving forward when there is no evidence to support that notion. If I thought Rogers was capable of finding someone more competent, I too would be excited at Masai's potential exit, I just don't believe that that will be the case.

Response will be: Anybody would be more competent at this stage.

[Reeko]

AA is pretty much just like Kyle Dubas, incredibly skilled at manipulating the media and articulating strategies to an niche of fans that want to feel like they're smarter than other fans. This type of personality thrives on message boards (like realgm, see Sam Presti). Fan interaction moved from what happened in the games to chess pieces.

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team. He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

AA's teams have gone to 4 conference finals, winning 1 title in the last 10 years. He is an elite executive.

Sam Presti is also an elite executive. The guy built two separate contenders in the NBA's smallest market in a period of 17 years. That's an incredible feat.

I'm not sure why you are comparing these guys to Dubas, whose teams have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs just once in his career. A much better comparison for Dubas is Atkins. A pseudo-nerd who pretends to understand analytics (but doesn't) and struggles to get results (although even Dubas has managed to achieve more than Atkins).

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team.

He certainly won't move the team. Why would any owner, given their valuation? But he absolutely isn't incentivized to put on a "good show". You don't hire Mark Shapiro to run your team if that's your goal. Mark Shapiro was literally the poster child for mediocrity in MLB before we hired him (and it's a title he continues to hold onto).

He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

Shutting down the 905 would be antithetical to "wanting to put on a good show" (player development is kind of important to putting on a good show), but would absolutely be on brand for Ed, who is cheap and doesn't care about winning.

I have no problem with Masai getting fired. I've been as critical as anyone of him over the last few seasons. But if the one selecting his replacement is Ed, we're going to be in for many, many years of suffering as fans.

AA inherited an incredible team in Atlanta. He didn’t draft or acquire any of the major pieces from that World Series team. He’s a good GM but left our team in a mess and had a .500 record with us.

Presti is yet to win a championship and his whole team’s success is built around SGA who he would have never acquired had it been for Kawhi. The Giddey and Dieng picks flopped, he traded the Sengun pick for nothing. Chet and Jwill are nice young players but I question how well they’d do leading a team without SGA.

Presti has built a team that is one of the title favorites this year. Saying that he wouldn't have acquired SGA if not for Kawhi's demands means absolutely nothing, Presti leveraged that situation beautifully. Giddey did not flop, he just didn't fit the team's needs so they traded him for one of the 3 best role players in the league in Alex Caruso. That Thunder team as presently constructed would still be a top 6 team in the West even without SGA, that's how deep and talented they are.

[YogurtProducer]

It’s like reading this place back in 2012 with as many Masai apologists as there are still. I honestly think he’d get a 10+ year free pass of mediocrity from MLSE if it wasn’t for Rogers taking over.

this is a pretty dumb take b/c masai delivered a championship. so that's on the resume and something that nobody thought would ever happen so yes, that buys you some time.

secondly, i, as a fan, have no control over anything. so it comes down to how you want to be a fan. if you want to whine and complain over stuff you can't control, then it's your right, just like it's other people's rights to think you are a whiner and complainer.

if he quits or is let go...then fine. on to the next exec and hope he wins. it ain't that deep and it ain't that personal. none of this is influenced by any of the idiots that post on online forums.

I should have added that it's even worse than BC's apologists in 2012 here exactly because Masai won a championship. These endless posts from his backers defending his (self-admitted) mismanagement remind me of how it was then but even on a grander scale.

So many have been so willing to ignore his enormous failures as an executive this decade because he won five years ago and that isn't any way to bring this team back to relevance. Fortunately, we're soon going to have an owner who almost certainly won't give him that free pass.

this is why it is so hard to take anti-masai takes serious - because they are just filled with hyperbole exaggerating how "bad" it has been.

This decade started with a legit 60+ win team (in a 82 game year) and a legit contending team in 2020.
Then it was a 2021 year in which we played 82 road games, and he made a great pick in Scottie Barnes. Interested how this was a failure.

Then this where you can start to make an argument (albeit... not a very good one). In 2022, you had a team overachieve from expectations, win 48 games, and had a starting lineup of guys 27, 27, 24, 20, and 23 years old. AKA - a young team in which your rookie just started 74 games played 35mpg and won ROTY. You COULD make an argument you should have traded away everything except like Scottie before the season and completely built around him, but that is using a lot of hindsight and faith in Scottie being as good as he is and making a lot of the right picks over the next 3-4 years to MAYBE get back to a team capable of winning 48 games.

So really - your "enormous failures as an executive this decade" pretty much go back at most 36 months, except that pretty much there was little to no chatter of blowing the team up in Summer 2022. And we had all but blown up the team less than 20 months later.

Masai-haters just have way to high of expectations of perfection and use nothing but hindsight to make their opinion known (or have been calling for a tank every year for a decade outside of the 10 months we had Kawhi and are finally "right")

[Raps in 4]

AA is pretty much just like Kyle Dubas, incredibly skilled at manipulating the media and articulating strategies to an niche of fans that want to feel like they're smarter than other fans. This type of personality thrives on message boards (like realgm, see Sam Presti). Fan interaction moved from what happened in the games to chess pieces.

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team. He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

AA's teams have gone to 4 conference finals, winning 1 title in the last 10 years. He is an elite executive.

Sam Presti is also an elite executive. The guy built two separate contenders in the NBA's smallest market in a period of 17 years. That's an incredible feat.

I'm not sure why you are comparing these guys to Dubas, whose teams have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs just once in his career. A much better comparison for Dubas is Atkins. A pseudo-nerd who pretends to understand analytics (but doesn't) and struggles to get results (although even Dubas has managed to achieve more than Atkins).

While I don't have a lot of faith that Ed Rogers can figure it out, I am happy that he has a lot of money and is incentivized with his media property to put on a good show, and that he probably won't move the team.

He certainly won't move the team. Why would any owner, given their valuation? But he absolutely isn't incentivized to put on a "good show". You don't hire Mark Shapiro to run your team if that's your goal. Mark Shapiro was literally the poster child for mediocrity in MLB before we hired him (and it's a title he continues to hold onto).

He will probably shut down the 905 and run Masai out of town. Masai hasn't had the receipts of late to keep his position, and I've argued in the past year or so that he's heel-turned on the qualities that made him an excellent leader of the Raptors in the past. This year is critical for him in proving that his decisions were worth it. It may still be too late, but he has to do better to prove that Ed Rogers will be wrong in letting him go.

Shutting down the 905 would be antithetical to "wanting to put on a good show" (player development is kind of important to putting on a good show), but would absolutely be on brand for Ed, who is cheap and doesn't care about winning.

I have no problem with Masai getting fired. I've been as critical as anyone of him over the last few seasons. But if the one selecting his replacement is Ed, we're going to be in for many, many years of suffering as fans.

AA inherited an incredible team in Atlanta. He didn’t draft or acquire any of the major pieces from that World Series team. He’s a good GM but left our team in a mess and had a .500 record with us.

He did, but he also traded for the finals MVP the year they won the title and drafted two superstars (4-5+ WAR players) in Harris II and Strider to extend their window of contention. He's also signed all of their core players to the most team-friendly contracts in baseball, cementing the team as a contender for the foreseeable future. And, as a bonus, he also left Shatkins with one of the best prospects in baseball (and the team's current best player).

There is a reason why Braves fans makes posts like this about him. He routinely gets ranked as a top-3 executive in baseball by his peers (in case you were curious, Shatkins received zero votes).

Presti is yet to win a championship and his whole team’s success is built around SGA who he would have never acquired had it been for Kawhi. The Giddey and Dieng picks flopped, he traded the Sengun pick for nothing. Chet and Jwill are nice young players but I question how well they’d do leading a team without SGA.

Presti has built two long-term title contenders in 17 years, in the NBA's smallest market. I don't know why you keep ignoring that reality. Winning a title is hard (1/3 of the teams in the league have never won one) and Presti has now built two teams that can contend for one (and not just for 1-2 seasons, but for many years), in a market that nobody wants to play for, and under the cheapest ownership in the NBA.

I find it hilarious that your position when discussing Rogers/Shapiro/AA is "titles don't matter". But when the discussion shifts to Masai/Presti, all of a sudden, titles are all that matter.

[Randle McMurphy]

Lol did BC even have any apologists by 2012? Of course there would be considerably more Masai apologists because he's accomplished considerably more.

Spoken like somebody who wasn’t here in 2012, I’d say. He had some right until the very end and so, clearly, will Masai.

That free pass he’s been given for 2019 (no matter how bad he’s been since) is the kind of thing that stagnates and ultimately destroys organizations.

[Scase]

AA's teams have gone to 4 conference finals, winning 1 title in the last 10 years. He is an elite executive.

Sam Presti is also an elite executive. The guy built two separate contenders in the NBA's smallest market in a period of 17 years. That's an incredible feat.

I'm not sure why you are comparing these guys to Dubas, whose teams have gotten out of the first round of the playoffs just once in his career. A much better comparison for Dubas is Atkins. A pseudo-nerd who pretends to understand analytics (but doesn't) and struggles to get results (although even Dubas has managed to achieve more than Atkins).



He certainly won't move the team. Why would any owner, given their valuation? But he absolutely isn't incentivized to put on a "good show". You don't hire Mark Shapiro to run your team if that's your goal. Mark Shapiro was literally the poster child for mediocrity in MLB before we hired him (and it's a title he continues to hold onto).



Shutting down the 905 would be antithetical to "wanting to put on a good show" (player development is kind of important to putting on a good show), but would absolutely be on brand for Ed, who is cheap and doesn't care about winning.

I have no problem with Masai getting fired. I've been as critical as anyone of him over the last few seasons. But if the one selecting his replacement is Ed, we're going to be in for many, many years of suffering as fans.

AA inherited an incredible team in Atlanta. He didn’t draft or acquire any of the major pieces from that World Series team. He’s a good GM but left our team in a mess and had a .500 record with us.

Presti is yet to win a championship and his whole team’s success is built around SGA who he would have never acquired had it been for Kawhi. The Giddey and Dieng picks flopped, he traded the Sengun pick for nothing. Chet and Jwill are nice young players but I question how well they’d do leading a team without SGA.

Presti has built a team that is one of the title favorites this year. Saying that he wouldn't have acquired SGA if not for Kawhi's demands means absolutely nothing, Presti leveraged that situation beautifully. Giddey did not flop, he just didn't fit the team's needs so they traded him for one of the 3 best role players in the league in Alex Caruso. That Thunder team as presently constructed would still be a top 6 team in the West even without SGA, that's how deep and talented they are.

It's kinda wild to hear people say that Presti only got lucky because of the PG demand. Like the guy still needed to put a trade together that benefitted them, it's the same people who claim Masai was a genius for getting Kawhi. 2 sides of the same coin, just cause you have an advantageous position, doesn't mean that anyone and everyone would be able to get maximum returns.

IND raked us over the coals for Siakam, but a worse GM could possibly have sent us a prospect instead of the mediocre package we got. The entire GM game is all about exploiting advantages, but apparently they are only smart moves when our FO does them, for everyone else, it's luck.

[Kingsway_fan]

One thing --- under Tanenbaum, Masai and his management team, we have been recognized as one of the best run teams in the NBA for years now ... under Rogers, these old guard " puck heads" will destroy the most valued franchise in Canadian history, I fear. ROGERS DOES NOT INSPIRE CONFIDENCE... I feel this purchase was just an accounting driven decision...around synergies of owning all these teams and controlling the media.
And not benefitting the growth of basketball in Canada.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

All we've been doing since 2019 is farming season seat sales. While the team slowly circles the drain.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I don't think the sale is that bad. If Rogers wasn't invested in creating a winner they wouldn't have allowed all that big contract money to be spent right before the sale

[Raps in 4]

I don't think the sale is that bad. If Rogers wasn't invested in creating a winner they wouldn't have allowed all that big contract money to be spent right before the sale

They would have spent that money one way or another. No team operates under the cap.

Again, people aren't afraid of Rogers being cheap (it's mostly irrelevant for basketball). We're afraid of Ed's decision-making when it comes to hiring people to run the team.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I don't think the sale is that bad. If Rogers wasn't invested in creating a winner they wouldn't have allowed all that big contract money to be spent right before the sale

They would have spent that money one way or another. No team operates under the cap.

The IQ deal especially didn't need to happen, that was not a sure thing.....

[Raps in 4]

I don't think the sale is that bad. If Rogers wasn't invested in creating a winner they wouldn't have allowed all that big contract money to be spent right before the sale

They would have spent that money one way or another. No team operates under the cap.

The IQ deal especially didn't need to happen, that was not a sure thing.....

$35 million/year is a pretty standard contract for a productive young player.

[TheAlchemist23]

I've been eagerly anticipating the ownership shakeup for a while now, a year earlier than expected but nonetheless well welcomed. We don't have to sufferer through the current head honcho's long armed, non-shooter fetish for much longer.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think the sale is that bad. If Rogers wasn't invested in creating a winner they wouldn't have allowed all that big contract money to be spent right before the sale

They would have spent that money one way or another. No team operates under the cap.

Again, people aren't afraid of Rogers being cheap (it's mostly irrelevant for basketball). We're afraid of Ed's decision-making when it comes to hiring people to run the team.

It's something to be concerned about, but then again you glorified Sam Presti, who was hired by one of the worst people in the NBA.

MLSE hired the son of Larry Tanenbaum's friend to run the Leafs, after barely conducting a search. Tim Leweike took Bryan Colangelo's advice to interview Masai Ujiri. This was Bryan's idea because he thought he could maintain control of his team while working with his friend. Neither are great decision-making processes, and we know at least one worked out about as good as something can work out.

We know that the Kroenke's decision to cheap out on Masai and let him walk didn't hurt the Nuggets, either. **** it, we know that Masai had to run the Nuggets hand in hand with Josh Kroenke and he thrived.

[Pointgod]

AA inherited an incredible team in Atlanta. He didn’t draft or acquire any of the major pieces from that World Series team. He’s a good GM but left our team in a mess and had a .500 record with us.

Presti is yet to win a championship and his whole team’s success is built around SGA who he would have never acquired had it been for Kawhi. The Giddey and Dieng picks flopped, he traded the Sengun pick for nothing. Chet and Jwill are nice young players but I question how well they’d do leading a team without SGA.

Presti has built a team that is one of the title favorites this year. Saying that he wouldn't have acquired SGA if not for Kawhi's demands means absolutely nothing, Presti leveraged that situation beautifully. Giddey did not flop, he just didn't fit the team's needs so they traded him for one of the 3 best role players in the league in Alex Caruso. That Thunder team as presently constructed would still be a top 6 team in the West even without SGA, that's how deep and talented they are.

It's kinda wild to hear people say that Presti only got lucky because of the PG demand. Like the guy still needed to put a trade together that benefitted them, it's the same people who claim Masai was a genius for getting Kawhi. 2 sides of the same coin, just cause you have an advantageous position, doesn't mean that anyone and everyone would be able to get maximum returns.

IND raked us over the coals for Siakam, but a worse GM could possibly have sent us a prospect instead of the mediocre package we got. The entire GM game is all about exploiting advantages, but apparently they are only smart moves when our FO does them, for everyone else, it's luck.

There are particular posters who will cluelessly **** on other team’s players and front offices. Saying Presti got lucky with Shai when he completely raked the Clippers over the coals when they weren’t in a position of strength. Also calling Chet and Jaylen Williams nice young players instead of All NBA potential players is laughably dismissive.

Presti is legit and he’s demonstrated the model to build a long term contender. And trust me I don’t say this as some glazer, I was a Presti hater and massive critic, but he’s proven his philosophy works and it’s one that’s not that hard to replicate, yet it can yield huge success.

Still Ed Rogers **** sucks

[ciueli]

Masai-haters just have way to high of expectations of perfection and use nothing but hindsight to make their opinion known (or have been calling for a tank every year for a decade outside of the 10 months we had Kawhi and are finally "right")

This is what the Masaiah part of this board always falls back to: "It's all hindsight!". Just because you weren't smart enough to realize it at the time doesn't mean the rest of us weren't. You're projecting what your own view of things was back then onto us.

For the record I wanted us to trade Pascal in 2021, I thought we should have taken the Golden State deal and I wasn't alone with this opinion at the time. In 2022 I knew we weren't in great shape in spite of the 48 win season because I saw it was smoke and mirrors and the team was terrible on offence, no high efficiency scoring, not enough three point shooting, no real centre, it was unsustainable with no clear path to improve with Pascal/Fred/Scottie as our highest usage players all being medium efficiency at best. I was right, that wasn't hindsight. In 2023 I knew trading for Jak was a massive mistake the day it was done as did many on this board because the fit was bad (no floor spacing or shot creation for a team desperate for both, can't have a starting frontcourt with zero 3 point shooters), that wasn't hindsight.

Masai continues to make own goals and the overall plan is to construct team mid that peaks as first round and out in order to save his job, every reasonable poster here knows that now. Mercifully he doesn't have much time left, 2 years before his contract is up and I suspect that the MLSE board will start limiting the moves he can make, he'll need board approval for any major transactions or decisions going forward.

Moving on from an executive who did great things for your franchise in the past isn't some kind of decision no other NBA team makes. The Celtics let Danny Ainge go to the Jazz and they just won the NBA title, they realized that Ainge was becoming more of a liability than an asset as GM in spite of the incredible deals he made to get them a team built around Tatum and Brown, they had no issue replacing him with Brad Stevens which has paid off for them.

[WaltFrazier]

If TSN keeps broadcasting half the games as I think I read early in the thread, I wonder if any of their on air people will be more apt to criticize the team when Bell is no longer part owner.

[Jcity08]

I hate the idea of that slimy, silver spooned, nepo baby jackass Ed Rogers being majority owner of the Raptors. This **** sucks.