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2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to?

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jnrjr79
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#101 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Sep 25, 2024 5:22 pm

League Circles wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
League Circles wrote:
I never try to merge predictions with advocacy. If the Bulls have already written off any possible future with Zach, they're making a big mistake IMO, and shouldn't have ever signed him to his contract. But regardless, if he does play a lot better, he should have a lot of value, and if we're too dumb to consider using that value for the next half decade, we should at least be able to get something really good in trade for him, which could be involved in getting the #1 guy we want and need.


Yeah, I'm not advocating, I'm just trying to say "this is what reality appears to be."

I don't think Zach will ever have "a lot of value" at this point just due to his injury history and contract, but I think he can play himself into having some degree of positive value. Setting aside whether you think it's the right move to keep Zach, it's clear he wants to leave and the FO wants to ship him out, so it seems rather pointless to me to be pretending it's realistic he'll be around. And even if you accept the premise that it would be smart to keep a healthy Zach, I don't think that makes it more likely he stays, because this front office is not exactly known for making a lot of smart moves.

I'm not really sure I'd agree that the Bulls want him gone, because I'd use that language on a net basis. Unless there were literally zero deals offered, which I doubt, they decided they'd rather keep him. Otherwise, to the extent they want Zach gone, they should/would want the whole roster gone and replaced with 15 all-nba caliber players. Essentially I'm saying that the idea that a team wants to acquire or get rid of a player never has any meaning without considering what they are willing to accept/give up to get it done.
The Bulls wanted him gone, under the circumstances this summer, only for a package that they weren't offered. That was when he was injured and following a terrible short season. If he plays the best ball of his life for the first 2 or 3 months of the season, he and the Bulls should be happier and only willing to part for a better package than what they would have accepted this summer.


The reporting suggests there were "no deals" for Zach in the sense that any team that was considering taking Zach was demanding the Bulls include some other positive asset(s) in order to take his contract on. I agree the Bulls were unwilling to do this, and good for them. In that situation, it's better to wait. I think Zach's market value is underrated around the league and he could turn things around to some extent if he stays healthy.

And if Zach plays the best ball of his life for 3 months without missing games, and we're winning, teams will IMO offer a very attractive package for him. We'll see what happens.



Even if Zach plays the best ball of his life, I doubt the Bulls are going to be winning a ton of games, absent some other surprising positive player developments.

For the record, my prediction is that Zach plays pretty well and is traded mid season for slightly shorter/smaller contract(s) and a generic garbage draft pick, quite probably one that takes like 5 years to transfer and ends up being a late first or some nonsense.


I think this is the most likely scenario, too, assuming he stays healthy.
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#102 » by Indomitable » Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:06 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:Are you actually that ignorant or just pretending to be? Being born the heir to an emerald miner makes someone a great business man? Noted.

No it gives him the social contacts to make better decisions.


And extremely large room for error.

It allows him exposure to things that previous generations were not aware of. It is a leg up and took advantage.
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#103 » by drosestruts » Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:14 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:Why are we already limiting what Matas can be while simultaneously putting Cooper Flagg on a pedestal?

The biggest knock against Matas has been his poor shooting in the G-league leading to bad efficiency.

I just looked up Cooper Flagg's high school stats and he shot under 30% from 3.

Both are 6'9"-6'10" forwards with similar skill sets and similar weaknesses.

Banchero won ROY shooting 29% from 3, and made an all-star team last year while shooting 34% from 3 with a TS% of 54% (not good for a forward).

We're so hard and dismissive of players in a Bulls uniform while looking past the warts of others.


What does being excited about Cooper Flagg have to do with expectations for Matas?

I'll answer my own question: nothing!


Well in this thread alone we have comments about this team not having any star potential and comments about how great it would be to be bad enough for a shot at Flagg.

I'm unclear what people see in Flagg that we don't already have in Buzelis?
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#104 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:17 pm

drosestruts wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:Why are we already limiting what Matas can be while simultaneously putting Cooper Flagg on a pedestal?

The biggest knock against Matas has been his poor shooting in the G-league leading to bad efficiency.

I just looked up Cooper Flagg's high school stats and he shot under 30% from 3.

Both are 6'9"-6'10" forwards with similar skill sets and similar weaknesses.

Banchero won ROY shooting 29% from 3, and made an all-star team last year while shooting 34% from 3 with a TS% of 54% (not good for a forward).

We're so hard and dismissive of players in a Bulls uniform while looking past the warts of others.


What does being excited about Cooper Flagg have to do with expectations for Matas?

I'll answer my own question: nothing!


Well in this thread alone we have comments about this team not having any star potential and comments about how great it would be to be bad enough for a shot at Flagg.

I'm unclear what people see in Flagg that we don't already have in Buzelis?


Two things:

Flagg is a much more highly regarded prospect than Matas.

If you think Matas has star potential (and I agree, he's just not considered to have as much as Flagg), wouldn't it be a nifty thing to have two stars?

Your argument is like saying "why would I want Kevin Durant when we already have Steph Curry?" to which the obvious reply is "why not both?"
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#105 » by drosestruts » Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:23 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
What does being excited about Cooper Flagg have to do with expectations for Matas?

I'll answer my own question: nothing!


Well in this thread alone we have comments about this team not having any star potential and comments about how great it would be to be bad enough for a shot at Flagg.

I'm unclear what people see in Flagg that we don't already have in Buzelis?


Two things:

Flagg is a much more highly regarded prospect than Matas.

If you think Matas has star potential (and I agree, he's just not considered to have as much as Flagg), wouldn't it be a nifty thing to have two stars?

Your argument is like saying "why would I want Kevin Durant when we already have Steph Curry?" to which the obvious reply is "why not both?"


What makes Flagg more highly regarded though? Why do you think Flagg has more of a chance of being a star?

I feel like I'm asking why people like Flagg more than Matas - and I'm being answered with vague responses like "he has more star potential and he's more highly regarded" or "why not both" which is not the questions I'm asking.

I see two very similar players both in terms of size/athleticism and skill
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#106 » by jnrjr79 » Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:45 pm

drosestruts wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
Well in this thread alone we have comments about this team not having any star potential and comments about how great it would be to be bad enough for a shot at Flagg.

I'm unclear what people see in Flagg that we don't already have in Buzelis?


Two things:

Flagg is a much more highly regarded prospect than Matas.

If you think Matas has star potential (and I agree, he's just not considered to have as much as Flagg), wouldn't it be a nifty thing to have two stars?

Your argument is like saying "why would I want Kevin Durant when we already have Steph Curry?" to which the obvious reply is "why not both?"


What makes Flagg more highly regarded though? Why do you think Flagg has more of a chance of being a star?

I feel like I'm asking why people like Flagg more than Matas - and I'm being answered with vague responses like "he has more star potential and he's more highly regarded" or "why not both" which is not the questions I'm asking.

I see two very similar players both in terms of size/athleticism and skill


I find this line of thinking/questioning very weird.

Cooper Flagg is a consensus #1 pick who has been highly anticipated for years.

Matas was a lot less than that.

It's really simple.

I'm not going to try to break down their size or stats to make some argument because that is pointless. If you don't agree the #1 pick in next year's draft for a shot at Flagg is more valuable than Matas because the general consensus is Flagg is a better prospect, I really don't know what to tell you.

If your argument is "Flagg is more highly regarded, but I actually think Matas will be as good or better," then great! Maybe you have it right and all the draft experts of the world have it wrong. It happens all the time! But I guarantee you that, today, every front office in the NBA would prefer Flagg to Matas.

But mostly my point her is who freaking cares, because there is no tension between liking Matas and liking Flagg. The Bulls would be in a great spot if they magically had both on the roster! It's not a zero sum situation, so this critique just makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#107 » by sco » Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:21 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Two things:

Flagg is a much more highly regarded prospect than Matas.

If you think Matas has star potential (and I agree, he's just not considered to have as much as Flagg), wouldn't it be a nifty thing to have two stars?

Your argument is like saying "why would I want Kevin Durant when we already have Steph Curry?" to which the obvious reply is "why not both?"


What makes Flagg more highly regarded though? Why do you think Flagg has more of a chance of being a star?

I feel like I'm asking why people like Flagg more than Matas - and I'm being answered with vague responses like "he has more star potential and he's more highly regarded" or "why not both" which is not the questions I'm asking.

I see two very similar players both in terms of size/athleticism and skill


I find this line of thinking/questioning very weird.

Cooper Flagg is a consensus #1 pick who has been highly anticipated for years.

Matas was a lot less than that.

It's really simple.

I'm not going to try to break down their size or stats to make some argument because that is pointless. If you don't agree the #1 pick in next year's draft for a shot at Flagg is more valuable than Matas because the general consensus is Flagg is a better prospect, I really don't know what to tell you.

If your argument is "Flagg is more highly regarded, but I actually think Matas will be as good or better," then great! Maybe you have it right and all the draft experts of the world have it wrong. It happens all the time! But I guarantee you that, today, every front office in the NBA would prefer Flagg to Matas.

But mostly my point her is who freaking cares, because there is no tension between liking Matas and liking Flagg. The Bulls would be in a great spot if they magically had both on the roster! It's not a zero sum situation, so this critique just makes no sense whatsoever.

Granted it's not a perfect predictor, but there was a clip somewhere of Matas scrimmaging against Flagg. To me, Flagg looked bigger, stronger, with a better handle and stroke, fairly convincingly. Flagg reminded me of a young KG. Matas just reminded me he's young.
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#108 » by Jcool0 » Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:38 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Two things:

Flagg is a much more highly regarded prospect than Matas.

If you think Matas has star potential (and I agree, he's just not considered to have as much as Flagg), wouldn't it be a nifty thing to have two stars?

Your argument is like saying "why would I want Kevin Durant when we already have Steph Curry?" to which the obvious reply is "why not both?"


What makes Flagg more highly regarded though? Why do you think Flagg has more of a chance of being a star?

I feel like I'm asking why people like Flagg more than Matas - and I'm being answered with vague responses like "he has more star potential and he's more highly regarded" or "why not both" which is not the questions I'm asking.

I see two very similar players both in terms of size/athleticism and skill


I find this line of thinking/questioning very weird.

Cooper Flagg is a consensus #1 pick who has been highly anticipated for years.

Matas was a lot less than that.

It's really simple.

I'm not going to try to break down their size or stats to make some argument because that is pointless. If you don't agree the #1 pick in next year's draft for a shot at Flagg is more valuable than Matas because the general consensus is Flagg is a better prospect, I really don't know what to tell you.

If your argument is "Flagg is more highly regarded, but I actually think Matas will be as good or better," then great! Maybe you have it right and all the draft experts of the world have it wrong. It happens all the time! But I guarantee you that, today, every front office in the NBA would prefer Flagg to Matas.

But mostly my point her is who freaking cares, because there is no tension between liking Matas and liking Flagg. The Bulls would be in a great spot if they magically had both on the roster! It's not a zero sum situation, so this critique just makes no sense whatsoever.


Fwiw at this point last year Matas was seen as the #1 pick.
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Re: 2024/25 Bulls - what are you looking forward to? 

Post#109 » by Indomitable » Fri Oct 18, 2024 12:01 pm

Ball, Lavine, and Coby playing together.
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