Jakob Poeltl is underrated

[Scase]

Poeltl committed 22 offensive fouls last year. He has the same offensive foul rate as the following players (give or take a decimal point):

Sabonis
Nurkic
Bam
JV
Turner
Gobert
Lopez
Draymond
Zubac
Porzingis
Claxton
Kessler
WCJ
Sengun
Davis
Gafford

So yeah, it’s not an issue in the slightest. It’s the status quo for centers.

Fair I was being a tad hyperbolic saying he's not a good one, I don't think he is a particularly note worthy screen setter. I checked that entire list already before I posted, and as I mentioned, the vast majority of players that have more or similar offensive fouls, are higher usage players, players with only a few years of experience, or guys in the twilight of their careers/bad players in general.

Again, not saying he is awful, just saying I don't think it's some massive selling point either. As for saying it's equally the ball handlers responsibility, I recall constantly seeing way too aggressive moving screens from him, rarely due to the ball handler. But sure, let's say it is a split responsibility. That's a moot point when comparing him to other centres as they also have the responsibility shared.

I read Jakob isn’t a good screen setter and I tapped out of this convo lol. If we can’t even praise him for the things he does well there is no point in continuing. I like Poeltl, really enjoy his game, don’t think he’s a bad fit and I’m happy he’s here. Y’all don’t have to agree with me, that’s cool. Y’all be easy lol

Nah that's fair, like I said, it was a bit on the hyperbolic side. I just don't think it's something he does at a notable level, he's a solid screener.

Ahhh sorry I missed your comment stating that earlier. Yea he’s a good screen setter, I agree he isn’t elite or anything. But we’ve had so many bad screen setters in the front court the last few years his really stands out. And then just seeing how much it helped free up IQ compared to our other bigs was really nice to see.

My hopes with having Jak here was that he could teach Scottie how to set a proper **** screen, but that has yet to happen

[GLF]

Fair I was being a tad hyperbolic saying he's not a good one, I don't think he is a particularly note worthy screen setter. I checked that entire list already before I posted, and as I mentioned, the vast majority of players that have more or similar offensive fouls, are higher usage players, players with only a few years of experience, or guys in the twilight of their careers/bad players in general.

Again, not saying he is awful, just saying I don't think it's some massive selling point either. As for saying it's equally the ball handlers responsibility, I recall constantly seeing way too aggressive moving screens from him, rarely due to the ball handler. But sure, let's say it is a split responsibility. That's a moot point when comparing him to other centres as they also have the responsibility shared.



Nah that's fair, like I said, it was a bit on the hyperbolic side. I just don't think it's something he does at a notable level, he's a solid screener.

Ahhh sorry I missed your comment stating that earlier. Yea he’s a good screen setter, I agree he isn’t elite or anything. But we’ve had so many bad screen setters in the front court the last few years his really stands out. And then just seeing how much it helped free up IQ compared to our other bigs was really nice to see.

My hopes with having Jak here was that he could teach Scottie how to set a proper **** screen, but that has yet to happen

LMAO I really hope it happens before he’s gone, bc Scottie becoming a really good screen setter would open up so much for him and the team. It would also improve his on court chemistry with IQ. We shall see what happens lol

[Scase]

Ahhh sorry I missed your comment stating that earlier. Yea he’s a good screen setter, I agree he isn’t elite or anything. But we’ve had so many bad screen setters in the front court the last few years his really stands out. And then just seeing how much it helped free up IQ compared to our other bigs was really nice to see.

My hopes with having Jak here was that he could teach Scottie how to set a proper **** screen, but that has yet to happen

LMAO I really hope it happens before he’s gone, bc Scottie becoming a really good screen setter would open up so much for him and the team. It would also improve his on court chemistry with IQ. We shall see what happens lol

Scottie is so horrendously bad at screen setting that I think even being average would be a huge boon to his game lol. We should've picked up JV to really show him how it's done and just lay dudes out on the court

[YogurtProducer]

Adams has been traded multiple times. I’m referring to his 2021 trade when he was healthy.

The Spurs moving the 8th pick also has a great deal of context around it that you are leaving out. They received a future unprotected 1st and a swap. They also picked 4th so it’s not like they completely punted on the first round. They didn’t just give the pick away. This doesn’t even touch on the fact that Poeltl’s ceiling raising ability put us in the delicate spot where we finished 6th instead of lower.

And Barnes not being able to shoot 3’s does not close the book on him being better than Siakam. Plenty of PF’s cannot shoot from 3 and are better than Siakam. I don’t know why you’re extrapolating that to mean Barnes will top out at Siakam’s level. If he cannot shoot that makes things tougher. The highest end case of this is Giannis being paired with Lopez. This does not mean Barnes will be better than Giannis but it is an example of a worse shooter than Siakam PF who is optimized by a stretch C.

This team was never in a position where we should have been trading high risk (ie. upside) for low risk. Not when we were unsure if the Barnes/Siakam pairing was suitable long term, when we were 4 games under .500 two thirds of the way through the season (record when the Poeltl trade was made) and we were staring down 4/5 of our starters reaching UFA status in a 1 year window. It made little sense at the time and it’s born absolutely zero fruit for us.

Zero fruit - other than Poeltl of course who again, can be traded down the line.

This is true. I can’t rule out him being traded for decent value. I don’t think the market for him is going to be amazing but it only takes one team. I think his contract is aging better than I thought it would given what Claxton and Hartenstein just got.

If things break right he can easily be the JV who was traded for Ibaka or even the Ross who was thrown in for Ibaka.

Sometimes teams enjoy getting back a useable player in a deal.

[RapTelligence]

Zero fruit - other than Poeltl of course who again, can be traded down the line.

This is true. I can’t rule out him being traded for decent value. I don’t think the market for him is going to be amazing but it only takes one team. I think his contract is aging better than I thought it would given what Claxton and Hartenstein just got.

If things break right he can easily be the JV who was traded for Ibaka or even the Ross who was thrown in for Ibaka.

Sometimes teams enjoy getting back a useable player in a deal.

JV was traded for Marc Gasol no?

[Tacoma]

This is true. I can’t rule out him being traded for decent value. I don’t think the market for him is going to be amazing but it only takes one team. I think his contract is aging better than I thought it would given what Claxton and Hartenstein just got.

If things break right he can easily be the JV who was traded for Ibaka or even the Ross who was thrown in for Ibaka.

Sometimes teams enjoy getting back a useable player in a deal.

JV was traded for Marc Gasol no?

Yes, we traded JV for Gasol. We got Ibaka by trading away Terrence Ross + our 2017 first round pick (a Latvian player who fizzled). Ross was hardly a throw in, he was only 26 at the time and stayed 6 seasons with the Magic peaking around 15ppg.

Re Poeltl being potentially traded for decent value, then best to trade him by trade deadline (Feb 6, 2025), otherwise we're looking at another contract year player whom other teams won't give much for because Poeltl has a player option to become a FA in 2026.

[ConSarnit]

If things break right he can easily be the JV who was traded for Ibaka or even the Ross who was thrown in for Ibaka.

Sometimes teams enjoy getting back a useable player in a deal.

JV was traded for Marc Gasol no?

Yes, we traded JV for Gasol. We got Ibaka by trading away Terrence Ross + our 2017 first round pick (a Latvian player who fizzled). Ross was hardly a throw in, he was only 26 at the time and stayed 6 seasons with the Magic peaking around 15ppg.

Re Poeltl being potentially traded for decent value, then best to trade him by trade deadline (Feb 6, 2025), otherwise we're looking at another contract year player whom other teams won't give much for because Poeltl has a player option to become a FA in 2026.

The Poeltl experiment must be getting to close to its nadir when one of the arguments for Poeltl is “we might be able to still trade him for an upgrade”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Poeltl or the trade.

[YogurtProducer]

JV was traded for Marc Gasol no?

Yes, we traded JV for Gasol. We got Ibaka by trading away Terrence Ross + our 2017 first round pick (a Latvian player who fizzled). Ross was hardly a throw in, he was only 26 at the time and stayed 6 seasons with the Magic peaking around 15ppg.

Re Poeltl being potentially traded for decent value, then best to trade him by trade deadline (Feb 6, 2025), otherwise we're looking at another contract year player whom other teams won't give much for because Poeltl has a player option to become a FA in 2026.

The Poeltl experiment must be getting to close to its nadir when one of the arguments for Poeltl is “we might be able to still trade him for an upgrade”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Poeltl or the trade.

Its just a reality of the situation. Not everyone on the roster now is expected to be here in 6 months let alone 6 years. People get way to caught up on timelines and what not and how the fit is "now". We are so far way from legit contention that fit really is not a conern.

He is a good player to have now, he is a good enough player that if an upgrade becomes available we can trade him now. HE is a solid player on a solid contract who can pretty much fit in on any team in the NBA.



It is far from an "experiment".

[YogurtProducer]

If things break right he can easily be the JV who was traded for Ibaka or even the Ross who was thrown in for Ibaka.

Sometimes teams enjoy getting back a useable player in a deal.

JV was traded for Marc Gasol no?

Yes, we traded JV for Gasol. We got Ibaka by trading away Terrence Ross + our 2017 first round pick (a Latvian player who fizzled). Ross was hardly a throw in, he was only 26 at the time and stayed 6 seasons with the Magic peaking around 15ppg.

Re Poeltl being potentially traded for decent value, then best to trade him by trade deadline (Feb 6, 2025), otherwise we're looking at another contract year player whom other teams won't give much for because Poeltl has a player option to become a FA in 2026.

Yeah I meant Gasol. Put Ibaka twice.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Poeltl is good but he was a bad fit at the time we traded for him.

Unsure if he's a good fit here with the current team.

Sent from my SM-S928W using RealGM mobile app

If Poeltl is a bad fit it really means that there is like 4 centers in the league that are not a bad fit.

Reality is - "good fits" at the center position demand big dollars because not many exist.

At 19M a year, Poeltl is a damn good value. If Barnes develops a shot, and we get another plus shooter in the SL with IQ/Barnes/Poeltl then the fit issues are no more.

Poeltl is hella solid. and like you said at $19M hes great value for the type of contribution and defense he brings.

but at the time the Raptors were trying to get better with the team they had and trying to give up as little on the current roster to build out a playoff team, that failed horrendously and basically resulted on the Raptors resetting and trading OG and Siakam.

Raptors don't need to move him but they sure hella better get more shooters and slashers if they want to really utilize him to his full potential - or not - they just use him 20-25min per game and thats good enough.

like i said, i don't know if he's still a good fit for the current team but he surely wasn't when they traded for him.

[deeps6x]

I think we're going to really regret not landing Edey at #8. I like Poeltl, but he's more of a piece that a contending team needs at C, then a rebuilding team, like we are now.

[OakleyDokely]

Read on Twitter

[God Squad]

We're the wrong team for his talents at the moment. We need more blue-chip prospects across the board, particularly at SF and C.

[ForeverTFC]

We're the wrong team for his talents at the moment. We need more blue-chip prospects across the board, particularly at SF and C.

Those are some of the hardest positions to get true blue chip prospects in. But agree, we need rotation prospects in these spots. They're kind of trying to do that at the wing position (Agbaji, Walter, Mogbo) but these guys are all on the fringes of a real wing (shade to SG for Agbaji and Walter, shade to PF/C for Mogbo). We were spoiled at the wing so I understand why it's so bare now that we tore the team down.

The GB did the annual top 30 players and it struck me how old the wing cohort is and how limited the league is in real young talent following in their footsteps. 8 forwards made the top 30 list (26% of the top 30 vs ~40% of roster spots) and the average age is ~32. Only 2 guys under 30 is wild.

The wing players that made it in:

Small Forwards (SF)
1. Jayson Tatum (26)
2. LeBron James (39, 40 this year)
3. Kevin Durant (36)
4. Kawhi Leonard (33)
5. Jimmy Butler (35)

Power Forwards (PF)
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo (29, 30 this year)
2. Zion Williamson (24)
3. Pascal Siakam (30)

[Tacoma]

Yes, we traded JV for Gasol. We got Ibaka by trading away Terrence Ross + our 2017 first round pick (a Latvian player who fizzled). Ross was hardly a throw in, he was only 26 at the time and stayed 6 seasons with the Magic peaking around 15ppg.

Re Poeltl being potentially traded for decent value, then best to trade him by trade deadline (Feb 6, 2025), otherwise we're looking at another contract year player whom other teams won't give much for because Poeltl has a player option to become a FA in 2026.

The Poeltl experiment must be getting to close to its nadir when one of the arguments for Poeltl is “we might be able to still trade him for an upgrade”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Poeltl or the trade.

Its just a reality of the situation. Not everyone on the roster now is expected to be here in 6 months let alone 6 years. People get way to caught up on timelines and what not and how the fit is "now". We are so far way from legit contention that fit really is not a conern.

He is a good player to have now, he is a good enough player that if an upgrade becomes available we can trade him now. HE is a solid player on a solid contract who can pretty much fit in on any team in the NBA.

It is far from an "experiment".

If this (bolded above) is true, then why did we trade for Poeltl in the first place? We were in 10th place far from legit contention when we traded for Poeltl for fit because it was a concern and we needed a Center.

And if we're "so far way" then why isn't he already being actively shopped for trade? Will he become yet another in a long line of players we waited late to trade him (or he's lost as FA) and the pro-Masai folks will again be bitching against people complaining how we mostly got pennies on the dollar trade value for a contract year player?

But you're right to advocate not to "get caught up on timelines" because anywhere on the timeline - yesterday, today and tomorrow - a win-now non-shooting veteran Center being here doesn't make sense.

[YogurtProducer]

The Poeltl experiment must be getting to close to its nadir when one of the arguments for Poeltl is “we might be able to still trade him for an upgrade”. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Poeltl or the trade.

Its just a reality of the situation. Not everyone on the roster now is expected to be here in 6 months let alone 6 years. People get way to caught up on timelines and what not and how the fit is "now". We are so far way from legit contention that fit really is not a conern.

He is a good player to have now, he is a good enough player that if an upgrade becomes available we can trade him now. HE is a solid player on a solid contract who can pretty much fit in on any team in the NBA.

It is far from an "experiment".

If this (bolded above) is true, then why did we trade for Poeltl in the first place? We were in 10th place far from legit contention when we traded for Poeltl for fit because it was a concern and we needed a Center.

And if we're "so far way" then why isn't he already being actively shopped for trade? Will he become yet another in a long line of players we waited late to trade him (or he's lost as FA) and the pro-Masai folks will again be bitching against people complaining how we mostly got pennies on the dollar trade value for a contract year player?

But you're right to advocate not to "get caught up on timelines" because anywhere on the timeline - yesterday, today and tomorrow - a win-now non-shooting veteran Center being here doesn't make sense.

Because the team we had when we made the trade and the team we have now are very different.

There really is no point re-hashing this again. Both sides have made their arguments for years and it is just a waste of time at this point.

[will]

Masai enjoys dealing away FRP.

[will]

FRP are mad underrated.

[JB7]

Not all FRPs are created equal

[nikster]

Not all FRPs are created equal

Yeah for some reason I haven't heard one complainer bring up Malaki Branham when he's technically the one we traded Poeltl for.