DET-NYK: Robinson + 1st for Reed

[babyjax13]

DET trades: Paul Reed
NYK trades: Mitchell Robinson, 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2 2nds)

New York cuts about $7 million in salaries and returns a healthy backup center for Robinson. Detroit picks up what is likely 2 2nds but has a chance to be a first for a guy they picked up cheap.

[KOA]

Why would the Knicks send out Mitch and a first for someone who the 76ers waived? Embiid misses just as much time as Robinson and they chose to waive him with no viable alternative. Value here is way off.

[babyjax13]

Why would the Knicks send out Mitch and a first for someone who the 76ers waived? Embiid misses just as much time as Robinson and they chose to waive him with no viable alternative. Value here is way off.

Because they get a rotation player, dump money, and as I understand it, still need to move off of $9 million as part of the Towns trade (so this should be viewed as part of the whole). There is one team with cap space in the league and it is Detroit. Plus, the odds of the pick conveying as a first are rather low (though not impossible).

[cgf]

Is Reed going to play over Achiuwa?

[babyjax13]

Is Reed going to play over Achiuwa?

(a) I would imagine so, but (b) it seems like with Towns either can play at PF a bit.

FWIW Precious has had a negative BPM every year of his career while Reed is always around 0, and the eye test tells me he is a bit better, too. B/C his FT% is also much better, I also trust the three point shot he showed last season more than Achiuwa's. Not selling this as a homerun, but I think it's a deal that resolves a lot of issues around salary matching and the rotation. e.g., NYK could run with:

OG 20/Hart 28
Reed 24/Precious 12/OG 12
Towns 32/Sims 10/Precious 6

Or one of many other combinations. Power forward still doesn't look great, but I do like that they have some positional flexibility.

[JayTWill]

Why would the Knicks send out Mitch and a first for someone who the 76ers waived? Embiid misses just as much time as Robinson and they chose to waive him with no viable alternative. Value here is way off.

Because they get a rotation player, dump money, and as I understand it, still need to move off of $9 million as part of the Towns trade (so this should be viewed as part of the whole). There is one team with cap space in the league and it is Detroit. Plus, the odds of the pick conveying as a first are rather low (though not impossible).

Keita Bates-Diop has been added to the trade heading to Minny. I believe he is making $2.6M this year. DaQuan Jeffries is being sent to Charlotte as a 3rd team. I'm not sure how far along they are with that part of the deal. I can't keep up at this point. I don't know how much of the original $9M difference still needs to be made up or if these extra additions are enough to make the trade legal.

Either way I hope the Knicks would aim a little higher than Reed if they are looking to move off of Mitch's salary.

[babyjax13]

Why would the Knicks send out Mitch and a first for someone who the 76ers waived? Embiid misses just as much time as Robinson and they chose to waive him with no viable alternative. Value here is way off.

Because they get a rotation player, dump money, and as I understand it, still need to move off of $9 million as part of the Towns trade (so this should be viewed as part of the whole). There is one team with cap space in the league and it is Detroit. Plus, the odds of the pick conveying as a first are rather low (though not impossible).

Keita Bates-Diop has been added to the trade heading to Minny. I believe he is making $2.6M this year. DaQuan Jeffries is being sent to Charlotte as a 3rd team. I'm not sure how far along they are with that part of the deal. I can't keep up at this point. I don't know how much of the original $9M difference still needs to be made up or if these extra additions are enough to make the trade legal.

Either way I hope the Knicks would aim a little higher than Reed if they are looking to move off of Mitch's salary.

I think the $9 million was the amount they needed to fill the gap before other players were added. They'll also have minimum roster charges filling the gap, so KBD fills about 1.5 million of that gap. No idea on Jeffries b/c his salary isn't reported and I'm just not sure why or how he is involved. Robinson is at 14.3 and Reed is at 7.7, so that would be 6.7 million of it + the 1.5 million gets them pretty close. But, this is napkin math based on that 9 million number that several people have repeated in the original thread

The issue I see is that if New York is going to make up that amount of money Robinson has to be the outgoing salary and Detroit is the only team that can absorb him into cap space. Teams that have large enough TPEs are Atlanta, Brooklyn, Chicago, and Dallas, but with their salary structures I can't see them taking Robinson into a TPE.

A more complicated option is to find someone that would trade an MLE or below player for Robinson (someone who is below the 1st apron) with that player going to a team that has their MLE still available to absorb salary (Utah ; ). Charlotte has a lot of those midrange salaries, so there might be something there.

[A_dub06]

DET trades: Paul Reed
NYK trades: Mitchell Robinson, 2025 WAS 1st (1-10, 1-8, 2 2nds)

New York cuts about $7 million in salaries and returns a healthy backup center for Robinson. Detroit picks up what is likely 2 2nds but has a chance to be a first for a guy they picked up cheap.

As a pistons fan I wouldn’t want this. Realistically we need to see what Duren is and what he can become, and although you mentioned it I think the WAS 1st is guaranteed to become 2 2nds making this not worth it. Given Detroits makeup of younger players that are not good shooters and need to develop, it’s imperative that the team has a spacing Center on the team which currently there’s Stew, but picking up Robinson would take minutes away from Duren (not good for his development) or Stewart (not good for the teams younger players)

[cgf]

Is Reed going to play over Achiuwa?

(a) I would imagine so, but (b) it seems like with Towns either can play at PF a bit.

FWIW Precious has had a negative BPM every year of his career while Reed is always around 0, and the eye test tells me he is a bit better, too. B/C his FT% is also much better, I also trust the three point shot he showed last season more than Achiuwa's. Not selling this as a homerun, but I think it's a deal that resolves a lot of issues around salary matching and the rotation. e.g., NYK could run with:

OG 20/Hart 28
Reed 24/Precious 12/OG 12
Towns 32/Sims 10/Precious 6

Or one of many other combinations. Power forward still doesn't look great, but I do like that they have some positional flexibility.

Fair enough. I was going off our series last spring when neither his rim protection or rebounding seemed like they were up to Thibs’ standards. But small sample size is a thing and Thibs is the big man whisperer

I’m gunna keep hoping we can nickel and dime our way to making the cap math work because I think we still need Mitch


I certainly can’t complain about this offseason…but I will always wonder what would’ve been if we had just gone after Caruso instead of Mikal and then gotten Mitch a better back up instead of swapping Ju for KAT…leaving most of our warchest in tact.

[Mr Peanut]

On initial review it looks like good value for Detroit, but there seems a pretty good chance that the first rounder will become two seconds. And that feels like an underpayment for taking on 26M of salary for a guy with injury problems and when our C rotation is already covered between Duren and Stewart.

[JayTWill]

Because they get a rotation player, dump money, and as I understand it, still need to move off of $9 million as part of the Towns trade (so this should be viewed as part of the whole). There is one team with cap space in the league and it is Detroit. Plus, the odds of the pick conveying as a first are rather low (though not impossible).

Keita Bates-Diop has been added to the trade heading to Minny. I believe he is making $2.6M this year. DaQuan Jeffries is being sent to Charlotte as a 3rd team. I'm not sure how far along they are with that part of the deal. I can't keep up at this point. I don't know how much of the original $9M difference still needs to be made up or if these extra additions are enough to make the trade legal.

Either way I hope the Knicks would aim a little higher than Reed if they are looking to move off of Mitch's salary.

I think the $9 million was the amount they needed to fill the gap before other players were added. They'll also have minimum roster charges filling the gap, so KBD fills about 1.5 million of that gap. No idea on Jeffries b/c his salary isn't reported and I'm just not sure why or how he is involved. Robinson is at 14.3 and Reed is at 7.7, so that would be 6.7 million of it + the 1.5 million gets them pretty close. But, this is napkin math based on that 9 million number that several people have repeated in the original thread

The issue I see is that if New York is going to make up that amount of money Robinson has to be the outgoing salary and Detroit is the only team that can absorb him into cap space. Teams that have large enough TPEs are Atlanta, Brooklyn, Chicago, and Dallas, but with their salary structures I can't see them taking Robinson into a TPE.

A more complicated option is to find someone that would trade an MLE or below player for Robinson (someone who is below the 1st apron) with that player going to a team that has their MLE still available to absorb salary (Utah ; ). Charlotte has a lot of those midrange salaries, so there might be something there.

I could see Detroit being used as a 4th team if needed but I feel like the Knicks need to maximize the limited amount of reasonably tradable salaries and assets they have remaining. I don't feel like this deal does that.

Brunson/Payne/Kolek(Rookie)
Hart/McBride/min salary(Shamet?)
Mikal/Dadiet(Rookie)/min salary
OG/Precious/min salary
KAT/Reed/Sims

The bench is still incredibly thin imo. They still don't have a consistent offensive initiator outside of Brunson. There is no wing depth on the bench behind Hart, Mikal and OG, And there is still no interior defensive presence with size which Thibs always seems to want to have. Reed doesn't really fill one of the bigger needs imo. It just feels like the Knicks are adding another ok-ish center that they would want to upgrade.

The Knicks may be forced to make a deal like this. It felt the same way after the Mikal trade but they worked some CBA magic that I didn't know was possible at the time so I will just wait and see what they will do this time.

[spree8]

Reed doesn’t have anywhere near this type of value.

It was recently reported that the Knicks FO was interested in Stewart tho. Apparently Detroit was asking for Mitch, Deuce, and a 1st. If we replaced Deuce with Dadiet (our 1st rd pick this year) I’d do it.

[cgf]

Reed doesn’t have anywhere near this type of value.

It was recently reported that the Knicks FO was interested in Stewart tho. Apparently Detroit was asking for Mitch, Deuce, and a 1st. If we replaced Deuce with Dadiet (our 1st rd pick this year) I’d do it.

I definitely wouldn't. We're still going to need a healthy Mitch to protect the rim and control the boards, Stew can shoot a little more than Mitch and hasn't missed as much time, but he can't do those things nearly as well.

[cgf]

Is Reed going to play over Achiuwa?

(a) I would imagine so, but (b) it seems like with Towns either can play at PF a bit.

FWIW Precious has had a negative BPM every year of his career while Reed is always around 0, and the eye test tells me he is a bit better, too. B/C his FT% is also much better, I also trust the three point shot he showed last season more than Achiuwa's. Not selling this as a homerun, but I think it's a deal that resolves a lot of issues around salary matching and the rotation. e.g., NYK could run with:

OG 20/Hart 28
Reed 24/Precious 12/OG 12
Towns 32/Sims 10/Precious 6

Or one of many other combinations. Power forward still doesn't look great, but I do like that they have some positional flexibility.

Fair enough. I just think people are overlooking the Thibs in all of this KAT hoopla. I would be shocked if a big part of the interest in a re-union didn't come from seeing KAT succeed playing next to the kind of 5 that Thibs insists on having. Which is why I think our FO is likely going to prioritize rim protection & rebounding from any bigs they bring in to play next to KAT.

AKA why I still expect Mitch to start when healthy and Achiuwa to start when Mitch is hurt.

[spree8]

Reed doesn’t have anywhere near this type of value.

It was recently reported that the Knicks FO was interested in Stewart tho. Apparently Detroit was asking for Mitch, Deuce, and a 1st. If we replaced Deuce with Dadiet (our 1st rd pick this year) I’d do it.

I definitely wouldn't. We're still going to need a healthy Mitch to protect the rim and control the boards, Stew can shoot a little more than Mitch and hasn't missed as much time, but he can't do those things nearly as well.

Yea it’s a trade off, but he can shoot a lot more than Mitch, not a little, and that’s the main idea. He’s a good defender too. Playing him alongside Towns would be ideal imo to really play 5 out without sacrificing size and defense. But he has missed as much time as Mitch the past couple seasons, that’s kinda the tough part.

[theBigLip]

Is Reed going to play over Achiuwa?

(a) I would imagine so, but (b) it seems like with Towns either can play at PF a bit.

FWIW Precious has had a negative BPM every year of his career while Reed is always around 0, and the eye test tells me he is a bit better, too. B/C his FT% is also much better, I also trust the three point shot he showed last season more than Achiuwa's. Not selling this as a homerun, but I think it's a deal that resolves a lot of issues around salary matching and the rotation. e.g., NYK could run with:

OG 20/Hart 28
Reed 24/Precious 12/OG 12
Towns 32/Sims 10/Precious 6

Or one of many other combinations. Power forward still doesn't look great, but I do like that they have some positional flexibility.

Fair enough. I was going off our series last spring when neither his rim protection or rebounding seemed like they were up to Thibs’ standards. But small sample size is a thing and Thibs is the big man whisperer

I’m gunna keep hoping we can nickel and dime our way to making the cap math work because I think we still need Mitch


I certainly can’t complain about this offseason…but I will always wonder what would’ve been if we had just gone after Caruso instead of Mikal and then gotten Mitch a better back up instead of swapping Ju for KAT…leaving most of our warchest in tact.

Caruso was missed by the entire league. I still can’t believe he went for that cheap. He would have been a great fit on the Knicks.

[cgf]

Reed doesn’t have anywhere near this type of value.

It was recently reported that the Knicks FO was interested in Stewart tho. Apparently Detroit was asking for Mitch, Deuce, and a 1st. If we replaced Deuce with Dadiet (our 1st rd pick this year) I’d do it.

I definitely wouldn't. We're still going to need a healthy Mitch to protect the rim and control the boards, Stew can shoot a little more than Mitch and hasn't missed as much time, but he can't do those things nearly as well.

Yea it’s a trade off, but he can shoot a lot more than Mitch, not a little, and that’s the main idea. He’s a good defender too. Playing him alongside Towns would be ideal imo to really play 5 out without sacrificing size and defense. But he has missed as much time as Mitch the past couple seasons, that’s kinda the tough part.

I didn't mean he can shoot a little more than Mitch, just that he's not going to drag the Embiid's and KP's of this conference away from the rim with his shooting. And we brought KAT in to give us more shooting from our big men. This is still a thibs team, we're not just going to sacrifice rim protection & rebounding to play 5 out.

KAT's improved a lot as a defender, but a big part of that has been not being asked to be that rim protector / last line of defense. That's why I think Thibs would play Achiuwa over Stew next to Towns without even batting an eye. So unless you think Precious is good enough to start next to KAT in the playoffs, we'd still need to find a better rim protecter / rebounder.

We'll probably see more of Towns at the 5 than we did Randle...but I don't think it'll be too much more if we consider Achiuwa the 5 and KAT the 4 when those two are out there together.

[cgf]

(a) I would imagine so, but (b) it seems like with Towns either can play at PF a bit.

FWIW Precious has had a negative BPM every year of his career while Reed is always around 0, and the eye test tells me he is a bit better, too. B/C his FT% is also much better, I also trust the three point shot he showed last season more than Achiuwa's. Not selling this as a homerun, but I think it's a deal that resolves a lot of issues around salary matching and the rotation. e.g., NYK could run with:

OG 20/Hart 28
Reed 24/Precious 12/OG 12
Towns 32/Sims 10/Precious 6

Or one of many other combinations. Power forward still doesn't look great, but I do like that they have some positional flexibility.

Fair enough. I was going off our series last spring when neither his rim protection or rebounding seemed like they were up to Thibs’ standards. But small sample size is a thing and Thibs is the big man whisperer

I’m gunna keep hoping we can nickel and dime our way to making the cap math work because I think we still need Mitch


I certainly can’t complain about this offseason…but I will always wonder what would’ve been if we had just gone after Caruso instead of Mikal and then gotten Mitch a better back up instead of swapping Ju for KAT…leaving most of our warchest in tact.

Caruso was missed by the entire league. I still can’t believe he went for that cheap. He would have been a great fit on the Knicks.

Yeah. People balked at the Bulls 2 FRP asking price but I would've happily offered them both of the FRPs we had in this draft for Caruso if they'd have taken them. Brunson - Caruso - Anunoby - Randle - RobinHart would've just been ridiculously fun to watch play defense.

Bridges is an excellent defender and much bigger offensive threat, but he's not a DPOY-caliber perimeter defender like OG is...and Caruso is...

[spree8]

I definitely wouldn't. We're still going to need a healthy Mitch to protect the rim and control the boards, Stew can shoot a little more than Mitch and hasn't missed as much time, but he can't do those things nearly as well.

Yea it’s a trade off, but he can shoot a lot more than Mitch, not a little, and that’s the main idea. He’s a good defender too. Playing him alongside Towns would be ideal imo to really play 5 out without sacrificing size and defense. But he has missed as much time as Mitch the past couple seasons, that’s kinda the tough part.

I didn't mean he can shoot a little more than Mitch, just that he's not going to drag the Embiid's and KP's of this conference away from the rim with his shooting. And we brought KAT in to give us more shooting from our big men. This is still a thibs team, we're not just going to sacrifice rim protection & rebounding to play 5 out.

KAT's improved a lot as a defender, but a big part of that has been not being asked to be that rim protector / last line of defense. That's why I think Thibs would play Achiuwa over Stew next to Towns without even batting an eye. So unless you think Precious is good enough to start next to KAT in the playoffs, we'd still need to find a better rim protecter / rebounder.

We'll probably see more of Towns at the 5 than we did Randle...but I don't think it'll be too much more if we consider Achiuwa the 5 and KAT the 4 when those two are out there together.

Why wouldn’t a 38% 3pt shooter who takes 4 attempts per game drag out Embiid or KP to guard them on the perimeter? With him and Towns out there, are these guys just going to hang around the paint? They would if Mitch or Precious is out there tho. That’s my point. I also think Thibs would get more out of Stew on the defensive end like he does everyone else including Precious.

[cgf]

Yea it’s a trade off, but he can shoot a lot more than Mitch, not a little, and that’s the main idea. He’s a good defender too. Playing him alongside Towns would be ideal imo to really play 5 out without sacrificing size and defense. But he has missed as much time as Mitch the past couple seasons, that’s kinda the tough part.

I didn't mean he can shoot a little more than Mitch, just that he's not going to drag the Embiid's and KP's of this conference away from the rim with his shooting. And we brought KAT in to give us more shooting from our big men. This is still a thibs team, we're not just going to sacrifice rim protection & rebounding to play 5 out.

KAT's improved a lot as a defender, but a big part of that has been not being asked to be that rim protector / last line of defense. That's why I think Thibs would play Achiuwa over Stew next to Towns without even batting an eye. So unless you think Precious is good enough to start next to KAT in the playoffs, we'd still need to find a better rim protecter / rebounder.

We'll probably see more of Towns at the 5 than we did Randle...but I don't think it'll be too much more if we consider Achiuwa the 5 and KAT the 4 when those two are out there together.

Why wouldn’t a 38% 3pt shooter who takes 4 attempts per game drag out Embiid or KP to guard them on the perimeter? With him and Towns out there, are these guys just going to hang around the paint? They would if Mitch or Precious is out there tho. That’s my point. I also think Thibs would get more out of Stew on the defensive end like he does everyone else including Precious.

Maybe you're right, I just haven't seen teams respect Stew's 3ball like that even with Detroit's offense as the alternative threat. I'd imagine that Philly & Boston will happily keep the paint occupied to slow down Brunson, even if that means Stew hits a couple 3s.

And with Precious the potential was at least there pre-trade he just kept doing stupid stuff because Toronto enabled his bad habits. So some folks like Zach Lowe were able to predict that Thibs could iron out those stupid decisions and get Precious to focus on the things he can do well.

I can see Stewart's rebounding improving, but I just don't see the quickness or length to protect the rim like Precious...much less Mitch.