RGM GOAT Debate Thread

[bledredwine]

Adding more to the thread when I can.

LeBron against 50 win teams is 20-14-
MJ is 20-7
-LeBron against 60 win teams is 3-4
MJ is 7-2
-LeBron played with players who had a combined 100 all star appearances
-MJ had 10 combined allstars
-Nearly 200 players will be involved in trades on Lebrons teams
-LeBron is 4-6 in the finals including getting swept 2x and gentleman sweep 2x
-MJ is 6-0
-Lebron is the only playert in the top 10 with a losing record in the finals
-LeBron has 1 scoring title
MJ had 10
-LeBron has 5 1st team defense
MJ has 9
-LeBron has 0 DPOY
MJ has 1
-LeBron has 0 3 peats
MJ has 2
-LeBron has 0 steals titles
MJ has 3
-LeBron has 4 MVP's
MJ has 5
-LeBron has 4 finals MVP's
MJ has 6
-Lebron missed the playoffs 4x
MJ 2x
-LeBron streak of not losing 3 in a row-128
MJ-626
-LeBron plays in the weakest defensive era in NBA history
-MJ played in the toughest (hand checking, much more physical and greatest big men era in history)
-LeBron is 11-31 in game tying or winning shots in the playoffs
MJ is 9-18
-LeBron is 21-118 on GW shots total
MJ is 28-54
-Lebron all time leader in turnovers and soon to be missed shots
-LeBron shoots 38% for his CAREER beyond 3 feet from the basket, 72% from the FT line
-MJ is the all time leader in ppg in both regular season and post season at 30.1 and 33.5 and considered to be one of the greatest jump shooters in history
-% of 1st place votes for MVP in career
Lebrob-26%
MJ-36%
-Seasons with scoring title and 1st team def
LeBron-0
MJ-9
-Seasons with top 5 MVP
Lebron-5
MJ-9, 5 wins and 4 2nd place
-MJ never lost a championship game on any level
-Reg season in top 10 in def win shares, plus/minus and def rating
Lebron-WS-7
Plus/minus-7
Def rating-3
MJ- WS-8
Plus/minus-8
Def rating-4
-Seasons winning chip, FMVP, MVP, scoring title and 1st team defense
Lebron-0
MJ-4
-Championships without multiple AS
Lebron-1
MJ-6
-MJ has more 30ppg and 50% shooting seasons than Steph Curry, KD, LeBron, James Harden and Kobe combined
-Lebron has cheated game by flopping and teaming up with 2 other top 10 players in their prime.
-MJ made players better by his intensity in practice and demanding excellence from them and himself
-Teams with 20 or less wins
-Lebron 18 from 2010-2019
East-12
West-6. 14 of 18 were in Lebrons conference
-MJ-19 in the 90’s
East-5. 2 in 94
West-14
-5 out of 19 were in MJ’s and 2 were years he didn’t play

◾ Larry Bird: "I would never call him the best player I've ever seen if i weren't serious."

◾ Magic Johnson: "There's Michael Jordan, then the rest of us."

◾ Allen Iverson: "Mike is the GOAT, Mike will always be the GOAT."

◾ Shaquille O'Neal: "The Last Dance only solidified the argument about who is the greatest player of all time."

Desperation is off the charts on this one.

Translation: “I’ve got nothing to say. Damn.”

[Iwasawitness]

Adding more to the thread when I can.

LeBron against 50 win teams is 20-14-
MJ is 20-7
-LeBron against 60 win teams is 3-4
MJ is 7-2
-LeBron played with players who had a combined 100 all star appearances
-MJ had 10 combined allstars
-Nearly 200 players will be involved in trades on Lebrons teams
-LeBron is 4-6 in the finals including getting swept 2x and gentleman sweep 2x
-MJ is 6-0
-Lebron is the only playert in the top 10 with a losing record in the finals
-LeBron has 1 scoring title
MJ had 10
-LeBron has 5 1st team defense
MJ has 9
-LeBron has 0 DPOY
MJ has 1
-LeBron has 0 3 peats
MJ has 2
-LeBron has 0 steals titles
MJ has 3
-LeBron has 4 MVP's
MJ has 5
-LeBron has 4 finals MVP's
MJ has 6
-Lebron missed the playoffs 4x
MJ 2x
-LeBron streak of not losing 3 in a row-128
MJ-626
-LeBron plays in the weakest defensive era in NBA history
-MJ played in the toughest (hand checking, much more physical and greatest big men era in history)
-LeBron is 11-31 in game tying or winning shots in the playoffs
MJ is 9-18
-LeBron is 21-118 on GW shots total
MJ is 28-54
-Lebron all time leader in turnovers and soon to be missed shots
-LeBron shoots 38% for his CAREER beyond 3 feet from the basket, 72% from the FT line
-MJ is the all time leader in ppg in both regular season and post season at 30.1 and 33.5 and considered to be one of the greatest jump shooters in history
-% of 1st place votes for MVP in career
Lebrob-26%
MJ-36%
-Seasons with scoring title and 1st team def
LeBron-0
MJ-9
-Seasons with top 5 MVP
Lebron-5
MJ-9, 5 wins and 4 2nd place
-MJ never lost a championship game on any level
-Reg season in top 10 in def win shares, plus/minus and def rating
Lebron-WS-7
Plus/minus-7
Def rating-3
MJ- WS-8
Plus/minus-8
Def rating-4
-Seasons winning chip, FMVP, MVP, scoring title and 1st team defense
Lebron-0
MJ-4
-Championships without multiple AS
Lebron-1
MJ-6
-MJ has more 30ppg and 50% shooting seasons than Steph Curry, KD, LeBron, James Harden and Kobe combined
-Lebron has cheated game by flopping and teaming up with 2 other top 10 players in their prime.
-MJ made players better by his intensity in practice and demanding excellence from them and himself
-Teams with 20 or less wins
-Lebron 18 from 2010-2019
East-12
West-6. 14 of 18 were in Lebrons conference
-MJ-19 in the 90’s
East-5. 2 in 94
West-14
-5 out of 19 were in MJ’s and 2 were years he didn’t play

◾ Larry Bird: "I would never call him the best player I've ever seen if i weren't serious."

◾ Magic Johnson: "There's Michael Jordan, then the rest of us."

◾ Allen Iverson: "Mike is the GOAT, Mike will always be the GOAT."

◾ Shaquille O'Neal: "The Last Dance only solidified the argument about who is the greatest player of all time."

Desperation is off the charts on this one.

Translation: “I’ve got nothing to say. Damn.”

You didn’t even say anything to my last reply… you’re in no position to say this.

But next time you waste an hour of your life putting together a long lost no one is going to read, maybe start with one that isn’t cherry picked nonsense with a clear agenda. You really said “seasons with scoring title and first team defense”

And while you’re at it, make sure what you’re saying is correct too. LeBron with only five seasons finishing in top five in MVP voting? Who taught you how to count? How can I take your list seriously when you can’t even do basic math?

[coachEmily]

Something I never knew about Michael Jordan:
In the 1991 NBA Playoffs, Michael Jordan grabbed 19 rebounds (and 38 points and 7 assists) in a series-clinching Game 5 victory over Charles's Barkley's Sixers!

[bledredwine]

Something I never knew about Michael Jordan:
In the 1991 NBA Playoffs, Michael Jordan grabbed 19 rebounds (and 38 points and 7 assists) in a series-clinching Game 5 victory over Charles's Barkley's Sixers!

His stateliness and performances from 88-93 were just insane.

Jordan has 7 of the top 10 playoff series scoring averages of all time singlehandedly and 19 of the 100 top game scores (measuring best games).... yes, 1 in every 5.

In the 1993 finals, he averaged a hyper efficient 41 ppg, 8.5 Reb, 6.5 assists, 1.7 steals in 6 games.

What's also amazing is that he only had 2.5 TO per game on that volume.

[MavsDirk41]

Something I never knew about Michael Jordan:
In the 1991 NBA Playoffs, Michael Jordan grabbed 19 rebounds (and 38 points and 7 assists) in a series-clinching Game 5 victory over Charles's Barkley's Sixers!

GOAT

[bledredwine]

Something I never knew about Michael Jordan:
In the 1991 NBA Playoffs, Michael Jordan grabbed 19 rebounds (and 38 points and 7 assists) in a series-clinching Game 5 victory over Charles's Barkley's Sixers!

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

How wild is that? A three-peat... after all of that, just to shut down comparisons amongst Magic/Bird etc.
Then he retired because there were "no challenges left"... and of course his father's death. His father
always wanted him to become a baseball player.

[parapooper]

Something I never knew about Michael Jordan:
In the 1991 NBA Playoffs, Michael Jordan grabbed 19 rebounds (and 38 points and 7 assists) in a series-clinching Game 5 victory over Charles's Barkley's Sixers!

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

[coachEmily]

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

But was 28 year old LeBron as good as 28 year old Jordan?
My daddy-in-law showed me both 28 year olds and LeBron looked dullllll compared to MJ...
Bird and Magic were also better than LeBron!

[The Explorer]

Another crazy stat I saw was, Jordan leads all players in NBA history with 37 forty point playoff games. He had a 40 point game in 21% of his playoff games! The next player percentage wise was Jerry West, who scored 40 in just over 10% of his playoff games. Jordan also never had a teammate score 40 in a playoff game.

[DCasey91]

Heart says Bron, mind says Jordan if its today it's Bron.

Won't get into too many specifics after watching countless games from both. Easily the two best that we have exhaustive tape on imho.

Unfortunate that one got over half decade of incompetence in totality surrounding and the other got top shelf from the start to peak play.

It's ultra vital for objective outcome that I do think people just gloss over for arguments sake

In theory there is to me little difference between young Horford and Paul George in comparison to Grant/Pippen yes we can split straws here but I digress. Tex, Phil and Krause its just a lot of great support added onto near perfect continuity despite in house clashes (That is not necessarily a bad thing in competitive environments)

Lakers, Celtics, Spurs and GSW in a gauntlet that I do not believe anyone can come out perfect no matter how many times you run the who is greater question again.

It's neither fault obviously

Call me a fence sitter don't really care, I've enjoyed watching them both play immensely. Are either perfect? No.

Favourite season? 91 Jordan and funnily enough 2020 Lebron.

I won't disagree with anyone putting either as their GOAT.

[bledredwine]

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

What? This makes no sense.

He averaged a NBA record 41 ppg during that finals.
I get that you're upset, but stick to the discussion and make statistical arguments if you can.

[bledredwine]

Another crazy stat I saw was, Jordan leads all players in NBA history with 37 forty point playoff games. He had a 40 point game in 21% of his playoff games! The next player percentage wise was Jerry West, who scored 40 in just over 10% of his playoff games. Jordan also never had a teammate score 40 in a playoff game.

He averaged 40 in 5 playoff series, including once in the finals.

I also remember there was a stat around 2014. It was 50 point playoff games since 1984. Jordan 8 rest of the league 13

[MavsDirk41]

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

Wow! James has played more minutes than Jordan but won less while playing with more talent. Ok parapooper.

[MavsDirk41]

GOAT

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

[Swindle]

Apparently Nick Anderson told MJ that 45 isn’t 23 during the 1995 Playoffs where Magic defeated Bulls. The Bulls swept the magic in the playoffs the next year and in game 4 MJ purposely missed his last free throw. He finished with 45 pts on 23 shot attempts the last game of the series. GOATed but kind of psychotic ngl

[165bows]

Jordan was also fatigued that season after having repeated, and then playing in the 92' Barcalona olympics.

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

Wow! James has played more minutes than Jordan but won less while playing with more talent. Ok parapooper.

I thought you were making an insult then looked up and realized his username was parapooper

[MavsDirk41]

So MJ is the GOAT because of a game that was worse than LeBron's last playoff game a few months ago.
And 28-year-old MJ did it being super-fatigued compared to Lebron the year he turns 40 with more minutes than anyone in NBA history and >3x as many career minutes as MJ at the time.

Please keep making these GOAT cases for MJ - you guys are doing a great job!!!!

Wow! James has played more minutes than Jordan but won less while playing with more talent. Ok parapooper.

I thought you were making an insult then looked up and realized his username was parapooper

Lol yea IDK either

[Luke]

There is no debate : the goat is one.

It' s an incredible waste of time comparing Bron to MJ.

The only debate is about positions from 2 to 15 , and there are no clear cut positions, despite what media want us to believe...

[Special_Puppy]

LeBron has played 41% more minutes than MJ so MJ's peak would have to be outlier level good in order to match LeBron in terms of career value

[bledredwine]

LeBron has played 41% more minutes than MJ so MJ's peak would have to be outlier level good in order to match LeBron in terms of career value

Edit: double post