OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[Dogen]

This.

https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/subtle-shame-about-lonnie-walker-situation-with-celtics

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[Hal14]

You have to consistently play D, move the ball, not be a ball stopper. And score more efficiently (like at least at league average TS%) and you'll be good to go..oh and show you can rebound better than someone who's half your size (Pritchard)

[KamikazeK]

I'm here for the Lonnie hype train.

[24istheLAW]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

[165bows]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[24istheLAW]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

I just think people are hugely missing the forest for the trees here.

We are in a championship window, and one that is smaller than the people who'll talk up Jordan Mickey and Yam Madar might realize.

We will need to:
(1) manage load
(2) sustain performance ceiling through injuries

The notion that some hypothetical, low-maintenance, black hole 23-year old will be equivalent in utility to Walker, just because they play much better defense, relies on the perfect-world premise, where we are asking for little. Wherein you are comparing their ability to hypothetically play 10 minutes alongside 4 of our NBA Dudes in a role, in a matchup-specific situation in a rotation.

But that's not what we need them for! We need a guy for (1) and (2). We need a guy who can play 30 minutes, while Jrue Holiday or Jaylen Brown spends a whole game on the bench. We need a guy who can play 30 minutes, because Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday tore their ACL.

It's just misplaced priorities/living in Jordan Mickeyworld to me, to dismiss Walker's proven ability to scale to a larger role, and say, we'll spend all that money on the other guy, because you think they can be more efficient in their 10 bench minutes.

Besides, there's acres of space on the court with our team. It's not like Sam Hauser and Payton Pritchard are world beaters. Walker will be fine.

[Riverwalk2021]

No way does Lonnie not make the roster with that terrorist Jordan Walsh stealing a roster spot

[Hal14]

No way does Lonnie not make the roster with that terrorist Jordan Walsh stealing a roster spot

It doesn't work like that. They're not competing with each other for a spot.

Walsh has a guaranteed contract. A team over the 2nd apron is not going to waive a guy with a guaranteed contract. He's on the team. They like his future upside..

Walker meanwhile is on an exhibit 10 contract..it's non-guaranteed. Guys with that type of contract often get waived. He's not competing with Walsh. He's competing with us possibly deciding to leave the 15th roster spot open, because it would give us flexibility and around $10 mil in tax savings.

We're seeing more and more teams leave the 15th spot open - especially after the new CBA was put in place..and especially teams under the new CBA who are 2nd apron teams - their tax bill is sky high so they can lower the tax bill a bit by leaving that roster spot open.

And besides, whoever you have in the 15th roster spot is likely not making much of an impact anyways.

Lastly, a few of you (on here and on Twitter) seem so sure Walker is making the team, but:

-Brian Robb said he thinks t's about a 30% chance Walker makes the team
-Walker has said in interviews there's a chance he goes to Maine
-In interviews, neither Mazzulla not Brad has given much indication that Walker will make the team

He might make the team..and as I've said multiple times I think he could possibly help fill basically the only void on this roster (athletic wing w/ decent size who can shoot and create his own shot) so I'd like to see him make the team. But it's also not my money.

I think he might make it, but he might not..

[165bows]

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

I just think people are hugely missing the forest for the trees here.

We are in a championship window, and one that is smaller than the people who'll talk up Jordan Mickey and Yam Madar might realize.

We will need to:
(1) manage load
(2) sustain performance ceiling through injuries

The notion that some hypothetical, low-maintenance, black hole 23-year old will be equivalent in utility to Walker, just because they play much better defense, relies on the perfect-world premise, where we are asking for little. Wherein you are comparing their ability to hypothetically play 10 minutes alongside 4 of our NBA Dudes in a role, in a matchup-specific situation in a rotation.

But that's not what we need them for! We need a guy for (1) and (2). We need a guy who can play 30 minutes, while Jrue Holiday or Jaylen Brown spends a whole game on the bench. We need a guy who can play 30 minutes, because Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday tore their ACL.

It's just misplaced priorities/living in Jordan Mickeyworld to me, to dismiss Walker's proven ability to scale to a larger role, and say, we'll spend all that money on the other guy, because you think they can be more efficient in their 10 bench minutes.

Besides, there's acres of space on the court with our team. It's not like Sam Hauser and Payton Pritchard are world beaters. Walker will be fine.

Walker v Springer is just both potential in my eyes, and the FO has spoken by what they have paid for both guys. Sure Walker has more positive track record but he’s got waaay more negative track record of being a minus player at the same time.

I’m happy they have a shot to develop both guys I just think Walker (if he ever makes it here) is on the Sam Hauser 2022 track while we know Springer is actually on this team and just seems like a real clear bet to be first in line for big club minutes this year.

[Homerclease]

Not only will Walker make this team, he’s going to see rotation minutes early and often. If they’re hung up about money, they’ll either cut Walsh or trade Springer. I think people are making more of a deal about the tax than the Celtics are. The Grousbecks are already getting out way ahead of their initial investment, I don’t see 10 million in tax this season being any detriment at all

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see an extra 10 million dollars in tax money being an issue for an ownership group that’s about to cash out in the billions. Walkers tax hit wouldn’t even register as an accounting error. Even pre sale, ownership has shown zero regard for the second apron in any way. I don’t see how this changes here in the slightest. Media talking heads seem far more concerned with tax penalties than the Celtics ever have.

[Hal14]

Seriously. The notion that the Celtics are going to just dump Walker, for the privilege to pay Springer $4m to wave a towel, is galaxy brain stuff.

Walker is here to make the team. Someone else (likely Springer) getting paid to be out of the rotation has to improve enough this offseason to pass him. And while that would be welcome, it'd be a pleasant surprise, not the expectation.

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see an extra 10 million dollars in tax money being an issue for an ownership group that’s about to cash out in the billions. Walkers tax hit wouldn’t even register as an accounting error. Even pre sale, ownership has shown zero regard for the second apron in any way. I don’t see how this changes here in the slightest. Media talking heads seem far more concerned with tax penalties than the Celtics ever have.

I mean, we left the 15th roster spot open to start the season last year (for flexibility and tax savings) and that was the 1st season of the new CBA, when we were a 2nd apron team.

We kept that 15th spot open for basically the entire season, until converting Queta with like 5 games to go.

Letting Grant Williams go for basically nothing was a cost savings move.

And Brad himself said recently that he will likely leave the 15th spot open this season as well..and that any exhibit 10 guys we sign will likely end up in Maine.

Lonnie Walker himself said in interviews that he might end up in Maine and that he's ok with that.

And what do the Celtics beat writers gain from the team saving some $ on the tax bill? They gain nothing. They're simply giving their honest opinion about what could happen, based on what they are hearing when they say 30% chance Walker makes the team.

Again, I'd like to see Walker on the team, he could help make us better. But I'm also not sure there has ever been a team that was willing to add $10 mil more to their tax bill for a 15th man, especially when they're already paying a ton of money for a 2nd apron team..

Let's also remember that the only contract Walker was able to get last season was a $2 mil minimum deal from the Nets. So it shouldn't be surprising if a team doesn't want to pay $10 mil in taxes for his services.

[jmr07019]

If salary/tax is such a concern Celtics should dump Jaden Springer. He's not worth 4 mil and is a worse player than Lonnie and always will be. They're not that far apart in age. I expect Lonnie to make the team.

[Hal14]

If salary/tax is such a concern Celtics should dump Jaden Springer. He's not worth 4 mil and is a worse player than Lonnie and always will be.

If the bold part were true, then why would another team agree to trade for him?

Yet you make it seem so easy..like you could just snap your fingers and trade him..

Also, clearly Brad thinks he is worth $4 mil. Otherwise, he wouldn't have traded for him a few months ago.

They're not that far apart in age.

They're about 4 years apart in age - that's a lot.

[Homerclease]

Idk I don’t see it happening yet. I think both of you two are among the brighter, more interesting posters here, for me I just think Lonnie starts the year in Maine and might be there until 10-day season starts.

I could see him taking the Sam Hauser route though, and landing a real spot in a year or so if he cleans up his game. Ie, efficiency and defense.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see an extra 10 million dollars in tax money being an issue for an ownership group that’s about to cash out in the billions. Walkers tax hit wouldn’t even register as an accounting error. Even pre sale, ownership has shown zero regard for the second apron in any way. I don’t see how this changes here in the slightest. Media talking heads seem far more concerned with tax penalties than the Celtics ever have.

I mean, we left the 15th roster spot open to start the season last year (for flexibility and tax savings) and that was the 1st season of the new CBA, when we were a 2nd apron team.

We kept that 15th spot open for basically the entire season, until converting Queta with like 5 games to go.

Letting Grant Williams go for basically nothing was a cost savings move.

And Brad himself said recently that he will likely leave the 15th spot open this season as well..and that any exhibit 10 guys we sign will likely end up in Maine.

Lonnie Walker himself said in interviews that he might end up in Maine and that he's ok with that.

And what do the Celtics beat writers gain from the team saving some $ on the tax bill? They gain nothing. They're simply giving their honest opinion about what could happen, based on what they are hearing when they say 30% chance Walker makes the team.

Again, I'd like to see Walker on the team, he could help make us better. But I'm also not sure there has ever been a team that was willing to add $10 mil more to their tax bill for a 15th man, especially when they're already paying a ton of money for a 2nd apron team..

Let's also remember that the only contract Walker was able to get last season was a $2 mil minimum deal from the Nets. So it shouldn't be surprising if a team doesn't want to pay $10 mil in taxes for his services.

They also tried to trade for Lonnie at last years trade deadline. The 15th spot is meaningless, they can just cut someone if they want to sign someone else. You also have no evidence that they kept the spot open for tax savings. Flexibility? Sure.

Letting Grant Williams go was addition by subtraction. He was complaining, a distraction with his antics and frankly not very good. Which is why Dallas dumped him in 6 months.

What’s Lonnie supposed to say? I better make the team or else? If he doesn’t say all the right things he’s gone.

The beat writers are jumping to the same conclusion as other people, that the tax bill is a detriment and the Celtics don’t want to pay it. That just hasn’t been reality.

If he stays he’s not a 15th man, he’s closer to 9th quite frankly. And that’s exactly why he will stay.

[ConstableGeneva]

If Cs and Walker have an understanding that he would make the roster later in the year, there's just no rush to sign him to a guaranteed contract now. Same principle with Queta, who was signed at the last minute last regular season to the 15th spot. Flexibility AND tax savings.

Only KP is injured. We have enough to cover guard/wing positions. Nothing personal against Lonnie. If Cs weren't thinking about $$ (which Brad has openly said they are), they would've signed him to an automatic roster spot and not to a camp invite.

Likelier that they could find a taker for Walsh or Springer then sign Walker if he stands out in camp.

[Green89]

A lot of overthinking in here, but I don't think there's any way Brad would have brought Lonnie here if there wasn't a way to make him stick. It would make zero sense why he's even here. They know what he can bring, they know who he is, nothing is a surprise unless there's an injury concern no one is talking about.

[ConstableGeneva]

A lot of overthinking in here, but I don't think there's any way Brad would have brought Lonnie here if there wasn't a way to make him stick. It would make zero sense why he's even here. They know what he can bring, they know who he is, nothing is a surprise unless there's an injury concern no one is talking about.

Yep, it doesn't make sense that they didn't just sign him to a guaranteed veteran's minimum contract outright if they want him that bad. Guy could go elsewhere.

[jmr07019]

If salary/tax is such a concern Celtics should dump Jaden Springer. He's not worth 4 mil and is a worse player than Lonnie and always will be.

If the bold part were true, then why would another team agree to trade for him?

Yet you make it seem so easy..like you could just snap your fingers and trade him..

Also, clearly Brad thinks he is worth $4 mil. Otherwise, he wouldn't have traded for him a few months ago.

They're not that far apart in age.

They're about 4 years apart in age - that's a lot.

Springer and 3 mil in cash for a second that won’t ever convey. New team gets Springer for a million, Celtics save the taxes. Of course the possibility exists that there is no trade to be made. I know it’s not that easy but I don’t want to put a million qualifiers into every post.

Brad has been on an all time run as a GM. One great move after another. Taking on Springers salary when we are (allegedly) pressed for cash seems like a mistake though. Let me rephrase your question - why would we take on springers 4 million if the lux tax was such a big concern?