Breaking: KAT to the Knicks

[Stannis]

Nothing > KAT for $60 million

So being over the cap with no way of signing players is better than acquiring one of the best bigs in the league? Yeah, okay

I think y'all don't realize how this second apron works or why teams are so adamant about staying under it. Unless you're a dynasty already going over the second apron will cripple your franchise for the foreseeable future. KAT is always a major injury risk. It's possible KAT is hurt, were over the 2nd apron twice due to his contract, and a pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules. Guys like KAT and Beal are team crippling right now.

I think you are right about how fans don't understand the 2nd apron. Do you know if the 2nd apron affects picks acquired from other teams? I thought it would just be your own picks?

I assume those are the picks you are referring to when you say "pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules"

[Clyde_Style]

Is there anyone here that would be happy paying Randle Joel Embiid money? Why tf is RANDLE the standard for a **** making Embiid money?

I wouldn't be happy paying Randle to continue playing for the Knicks at 25M or 50M. I don't think he's a winner. I do not believe in Randle's ability to thrive under pressure in the playoffs. I would have been rooting for his success if he remained, but I'm also glad he is gone.

Some people may feel the same way about KAT, but that's their prerogative.

I do think KAT is superior and will mesh better with our roster.

At $25 million you not paid to be a winner. You paid to be another guy.

At $60 million ($56 million for a certain someone that wants me to be specific before he buys a blood vessel) you better be the franchise. Especially when we got OG's terrible ass contract already on the squad.

If life was always about money = hierarchy then maybe so, but Jalen Brunson is our franchise player and he accepted less so other players needed to contend like OG could get paid. It also allowed for this trade to happen. So it does appear our best player is paid less than his new second fiddle. If he's OK with that, then so am I. If we win a championship that way then maybe you can live with it too.

[Stannis]

sounds like a lot of people who analyze this think the wolves won the trade. sad.

Our man is competing with guys from the 40s for the worse PO FG% lol

[mpharris36]

I think y'all don't realize how this second apron works or why teams are so adamant about staying under it. Unless you're a dynasty already going over the second apron will cripple your franchise for the foreseeable future. KAT is always a major injury risk. It's possible KAT is hurt, were over the 2nd apron twice due to his contract, and a pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules. Guys like KAT and Beal are team crippling right now.

I realize it. Once the FO traded 5 FRPs for Mikal and traded the youth for OG, it became clear what direction we were going. And it’s all in right now. So a pick going from lottery to 30th means nothing to this team right now. The cap is continuing to go up as well, so we’ll see the cap hit it’ll be in a few years.

All in to me means significantly improving the roster. Not sacrificing depth and cap flexibility for two guys we'd be lucky to get a combined 82 games out of.

once we traded for OG (knowing we were going to pay him) and then traded for Mikal knowing we will pay him...and extended Brunson...there is no more "capf lexiblity" is over...we officially signed the next 4-5 years we will be tax apron team. No getting out at this point. Randle leaving for nothing (for example) doesn't give us any additional flexibility (it just would happen what happened to ihart..he leaves and you can't replace him.

[Knicks218]

Loosing DiVincenzo hurts bad I can't get over it smh. The trade should have been Randle, Robinson, McBride two 1st rd picks for KAT.

PG-Brunson/Payne/Arcaidiacon/Kolek
SG-DiVincenzo/Shamet/McCullar
SF-Bridges/Hart/Okeke/Dadiet
PF-Anunoby/Archiuwa/Morris
C-Towns/Sims/Hukporti

With Hart as our 6th man... Smh.

[bronxknicksfan1]

I think y'all don't realize how this second apron works or why teams are so adamant about staying under it. Unless you're a dynasty already going over the second apron will cripple your franchise for the foreseeable future. KAT is always a major injury risk. It's possible KAT is hurt, were over the 2nd apron twice due to his contract, and a pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules. Guys like KAT and Beal are team crippling right now.

I realize it. Once the FO traded 5 FRPs for Mikal and traded the youth for OG, it became clear what direction we were going. And it’s all in right now. So a pick going from lottery to 30th means nothing to this team right now. The cap is continuing to go up as well, so we’ll see the cap hit it’ll be in a few years.

All in to me means significantly improving the roster. Not sacrificing depth and cap flexibility for two guys we'd be lucky to get a combined 82 games out of.

What depth was sacrificed? Donte wasn’t going to play more than 15-20 min.

The roster went from a starting lineup of Brunson/Grimes/RJ/Randle/Mitch to Brunson/Hart/Mikal/OG/KAT. That is a significantly improved roster.

[E-Balla]

So being over the cap with no way of signing players is better than acquiring one of the best bigs in the league? Yeah, okay

I think y'all don't realize how this second apron works or why teams are so adamant about staying under it. Unless you're a dynasty already going over the second apron will cripple your franchise for the foreseeable future. KAT is always a major injury risk. It's possible KAT is hurt, were over the 2nd apron twice due to his contract, and a pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules. Guys like KAT and Beal are team crippling right now.

We’ll end up a little bit under the 2nd apron but doesn’t really give us a lot of wiggle room to fix the holes in the bench. This is what really bummed me out about listening to hoop collective. They implied that the wolves didn’t have a ton of options to dump towns and we did them a huge favor while giving them assets. They traded the “best” player and I don’t think their roster looks any worse.

They've been trying to offload KAT with no one biting since he signed that extension last off-season and everyone knows it. That's Leon's guy so we traded positive assets for him when they'd need to include other assets to get rid of him if they were sending him to literally anyone but his former agent. At least with OG we offloaded RJ (I still hated the trade because I knew the only reason we did it is Leon wanted his son Sam to get a large payday by signing him to the worst deal in basketball but we're the Knicks of course we're ruining the franchise with blind nepotism).

[3toheadmelo]

For what it's worth Kevin Pelton, who does a statistical analysis and runs simulations to come up with projected standings (worth mentioning usually his predictions are accurate pre trade deadline) thinks this trade which cost a first round pick and all of our flexibility and pissed off Mitch as improving us by a whole... 0.5 wins. From an average of 44.9 wins in his simulations to 45.4 wins and 6th seed out East to 5th seed.

KAT had a minimal effect on the Timberwolves in the playoffs as well.

The Timberwolves had a net rating of 0.65 with KAT on the court in the 2024 playoffs.
With KAT off the court, they had a positive net rating of +10.48

[jvsimonetti0514]

We’ll end up a little bit under the 2nd apron but doesn’t really give us a lot of wiggle room to fix the holes in the bench. This is what really bummed me out about listening to hoop collective. They implied that the wolves didn’t have a ton of options to dump towns and we did them a huge favor while giving them assets. They traded the “best” player and I don’t think their roster looks any worse.

Minny said no several times...check this video out:

Watch on YouTube

Tim Connelly is a good executive. I’m not surprised he would actually negotiate a little bit. Unless I misunderstood Bobby Marks, this move still is going to save them almost 100 million in tax next year. Right now the wolves are almost losing as much money as they’re being taxed too. Plus there’s lawsuits over ownership. Apparently the group trying to force the sale is setting up an escrow account with 200 mill just to prove they’ve got the money to handle the franchises outstanding debt. It’s naive to think that financials didn’t play a huge role in this. Especially with Reid and Gobert’s contract extensions coming up.

[K_ick_God]

Him at 5 does make much more sense if Thibs can get the D straight.

[E-Balla]

So being over the cap with no way of signing players is better than acquiring one of the best bigs in the league? Yeah, okay

I think y'all don't realize how this second apron works or why teams are so adamant about staying under it. Unless you're a dynasty already going over the second apron will cripple your franchise for the foreseeable future. KAT is always a major injury risk. It's possible KAT is hurt, were over the 2nd apron twice due to his contract, and a pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules. Guys like KAT and Beal are team crippling right now.

I think you are right about how fans don't understand the 2nd apron. Do you know if the 2nd apron affects picks acquired from other teams? I thought it would just be your own picks?

I assume those are the picks you are referring to when you say "pick that should be a lottery pick ends up the 30th pick due to the new CBA rules"

Iirc it moves to a pick 5 years ahead but I might be wrong. They freeze the picks so they can't be dealt too.

[E-Balla]

I realize it. Once the FO traded 5 FRPs for Mikal and traded the youth for OG, it became clear what direction we were going. And it’s all in right now. So a pick going from lottery to 30th means nothing to this team right now. The cap is continuing to go up as well, so we’ll see the cap hit it’ll be in a few years.

All in to me means significantly improving the roster. Not sacrificing depth and cap flexibility for two guys we'd be lucky to get a combined 82 games out of.

once we traded for OG (knowing we were going to pay him) and then traded for Mikal knowing we will pay him...and extended Brunson...there is no more "capf lexiblity" is over...we officially signed the next 4-5 years we will be tax apron team. No getting out at this point. Randle leaving for nothing (for example) doesn't give us any additional flexibility (it just would happen what happened to ihart..he leaves and you can't replace him.

Randle could've been traded later, the MLE still exists, we still would've had access to waivers. A player like Hartenstein was signed using an exception that we would've still had access to before this move. Chances are Mitch is gone and not for any type of good replacement because we can't afford it. I really don't see us going above the 2nd apron for a 45 win squad.

[ibraheim718]

So they're thinking

Towns
Hart
Bridges
OG
Brunson

They probably don't want to be done. I would move Hart to the bench and get a stretch 4 but Towns has to play the 5.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Can you imagine people moaning about a starting unit with OG Anunoby, MIkal Bridges, Jalen Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns after the past 25 years of Knicks history?

Nah, I can't either. Nobody would be that ridiculous

I have been around this board since Amar'e first signed here. I was a lurker then and had a few names get banned before I really started posting a lot. Seeing the nonsense is nothing new. It's just more amplified since most of the knowledgeable posters are gone. There isn't a poster here who can brag about being right about everything. Most haven't been right about much at all honestly. You wouldn't know that from the tone some of these clowns take.

That's why I posted what you replied to, because what this FO has done is better than anything anyone else here would have done. If RealGM were running the Knicks we'd have Donovan Mitchell and a bag of crisps to root for.

Being right or wrong is fine. I don't care if somebody was wrong.

Staking out a position so you can gloat when you're right 50% of the time is boring AF, but for some guys that appears to be their life purpose. Rooting for the team's success becomes secondary with that kind of psychology.

And the team's failure becomes a form of validation for the sad sacks. Predicting failure is their hedge and gloating if it happens gives them pleasure.

The roster 2019-20 21 wins.

Elfrid/Frank/DSJr/Kadeem Allen
RJ/Reggie/Dot/Trier/Ellington
Morris/Harkless/Knox/Iggy
Randle/Portis
Mitch/Taj

I would love to see everyone's takes on those players back then!

[ibraheim718]

For what it's worth Kevin Pelton, who does a statistical analysis and runs simulations to come up with projected standings (worth mentioning usually his predictions are accurate pre trade deadline) thinks this trade which cost a first round pick and all of our flexibility and pissed off Mitch as improving us by a whole... 0.5 wins. From an average of 44.9 wins in his simulations to 45.4 wins and 6th seed out East to 5th seed.

KAT had a minimal effect on the Timberwolves in the playoffs as well.

The Timberwolves had a net rating of 0.65 with KAT on the court in the 2024 playoffs.
With KAT off the court, they had a positive net rating of +10.48

There was some drama too.. Towns loves and lives off drama.. drama follows him everywhere.

[E-Balla]

I’m curious as to what some of you think Donte was going to do on a fully healthy Knicks team and where his value would be compared to now.

He wasn’t going to start. Mikal took his spot. He wouldn’t backup either Brunson or OG, that’s either Deuce or Hart doing that. His minutes would be around where it was earlier in the season when he was a reserve. That was around 15-20 min. So where would his value be if he played for a few months?

Leon traded him while the iron was hot and traded Donte while his value was at the highest it’ll ever be. Again, a shooter off the bench is a dime in a dozen. He may not be as good, but Shamet is a career 38% shooter. He can fill the role. Or find another cheap shooter on the market. What Leon did was peak asset management. Traded a player while he was at his peak value before letting that value wither away along with Randle, who was perceived to have little to no value around the league.

We have OG Anunoby and Karl-Anthony Towns starting with Thibs as head coach, why are we assuming good health? Donte was supposed to be a bench player last year too, he ended up 2nd in scoring and breaking franchise records for 3 point shooting. It's an 82 game season if you build a team expecting perfect health you're building wrong especially in the modern NBA with all these injuries. The Celtics won a ring without KP and didn't play a single healthy playoff squad.

[mpharris36]

All in to me means significantly improving the roster. Not sacrificing depth and cap flexibility for two guys we'd be lucky to get a combined 82 games out of.

once we traded for OG (knowing we were going to pay him) and then traded for Mikal knowing we will pay him...and extended Brunson...there is no more "capf lexiblity" is over...we officially signed the next 4-5 years we will be tax apron team. No getting out at this point. Randle leaving for nothing (for example) doesn't give us any additional flexibility (it just would happen what happened to ihart..he leaves and you can't replace him.

Randle could've been traded later, the MLE still exists, we still would've had access to waivers. A player like Hartenstein was signed using an exception that we would've still had access to before this move. Chances are Mitch is gone and not for any type of good replacement because we can't afford it. I really don't see us going above the 2nd apron for a 45 win squad.

if Randle opts out (clearly likely at this poin). How can we trade him with S&T less and less likely now under new CBA.

and how many teams are banging down the door to trade for Randle, who is an extremely talented player but awkward fit for a lot of teams. (he's not a floor spacer or a defender).

We won 50 games last year and added Mikal Bridges...how is this a 45 in team?

[Guano]

sounds like a lot of people who analyze this think the wolves won the trade. sad.

Our man is competing with guys from the 40s for the worse PO FG% lol

Randle is in legendary company

[mpharris36]

So they're thinking

Towns
Hart
Bridges
OG
Brunson

They probably don't want to be done. I would move Hart to the bench and get a stretch 4 but Towns has to play the 5.

thats likely the closing lineup...not sure if that will be starters

[Context]

We’ll end up a little bit under the 2nd apron but doesn’t really give us a lot of wiggle room to fix the holes in the bench. This is what really bummed me out about listening to hoop collective. They implied that the wolves didn’t have a ton of options to dump towns and we did them a huge favor while giving them assets. They traded the “best” player and I don’t think their roster looks any worse.

Minny said no several times...check this video out:

Watch on YouTube

Tim Connelly is a good executive. I’m not surprised he would actually negotiate a little bit. Unless I misunderstood Bobby Marks, this move still is going to save them almost 100 million in tax next year. Right now the wolves are almost losing as much money as they’re being taxed too. Plus there’s lawsuits over ownership. Apparently the group trying to force the buy is setting up an escrow account with 200 mill just to prove they’ve got the money to handle the franchises outstanding debt. It’s naive to think that financials didn’t play a huge role in this. Especially with Reid and Gobert’s contract extensions coming up.

I dont buy that Kat has no value. He negotiated because they had other options- other places to send Kat. So ofcourse its pretty obvious that the financials were the primary factor but this notion that the Knicks were the only team that would trade for Kat
is not accurate. A center with Kat's skill set can play in a lot of systems and with a lot of players.