Breaking: KAT to the Knicks

[thebuzzardman]

Why tf we going after more wings?

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Christian wood is like a poor man’s KAT.

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God no.

I'd be for Tre Murphy.

Christian Wood is the Lakers offering scraps, doubt Knicks were interested

[3toheadmelo]

I gotta give it to Leon. This was a hell of a long con. He built up a lot of good will before he left us capped out with no assets and with an oft injured flawed one way overpaid star. Usually that happens sooner lol

He was probably watching games from the Isaiah Thomas era this summer and felt inspired to recreate that

[NoDopeOnSundays]

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Jakoba Reynolds?

[thebuzzardman]

Why tf we going after more wings?

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Christian wood is like a poor man’s KAT.

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trey murphy would be a very good get. he can play the 3/4.. that means were definitely leaning in to starting towns at the 5 then if we trade mitch for a wing

He’s gonna play like 15 mins a game with all of the wings we already have. We desperately need a rim protector next to KAT, not another wing.

He'd start at SF

Knicks would need another big, even a rando, after that.
Unless they have some irrational confidence in Haukpootie

[thebuzzardman]

Christian wood is a top 5 most worthless player in the league and he might be number 1

I agree, but where does it say the knicks have any interest in him?

The law firm of Jacoby and Reynolds says so lol

More like Duey, Screwem & Howe

[j4remi]

i get why they made the trade but i don't feel good about it.

to me, KAT was just never a winning player, hoping for the best though

This is basically where I'm at with it. I get the idea behind it. They can run five-out line-ups with a lot of positional flexibility between Bridges/OG/Towns to make adjustments depending on the opponent.

But KAT's always had the vibe of "this dude would fold in New York faster than Randy Johnson." Plus, I really liked how Randle was hooping before the shoulder injury, and wanted to see that version of him while OG and Bridges stretched the floor.

That said, Rose's crew has done well enough that I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It helps that the two Minne fans I know both talked about KAT like how I talk about Randle (a player whose bad reputation has gotten increasingly overblown as he's matured).

[Knicksfan1992]

Was busy this weekend so I didn’t get to post my thoughts here… Obviously, just in shock that something like this happened now.
I always maintained that I would understand if they traded for KAT even if I didn’t necessarily agree with the premise, but I understand the basketball reasoning behind it. That’s basically what I feel now. I honestly didn’t think they’d do it now and not at least give this roster a shot before sending Randle packing. However, it does kind of stay in line with their philosophy that they would not lose contract control on anyone. Basically, it seems like they saw the writing on the wall with the Randle upcoming FA and got out ahead of it.

I lean towards not liking this trade from the Knicks perspective but, I can talk myself into liking it at the same time lol. While I understand that the offensive fit with KAT is much cleaner than Randle’s was, I just can’t shake the feeling that Randle is just as effective of a basketball player as KAT is. Maybe in a different way but, to me, their impacts are similar… So taking that into account you are also giving up your best guard shooter who is also a great hustle guy and another draft asset for the privilege of bringing in someone who IMO is on the same tier as the other piece your sending out. On top of that KAT’s contract is an albatross. You’re taking a massive risk that if KAT doesn’t look good or maybe our ceiling gets capped because of his playoff under-performance, his contract becomes a negative quickly. From a pure asset perspective my feeling is that the Knicks have lost this trade. Maybe that doesn’t necessarily matter if you’re chasing a championship but, I can’t shake that feeling.

That being said, at least in the regular season, KAT is a special offensive big man. If he is your 5, you can truly play “5 out”. I know he gets memed for his “best shooting big man ever” quote but he genuinely is up there. Over the last 5 seasons he’s at 40.2% on nearly 6 attempts a game. That’s not only among the best big men over that time period, but also, in general, he’s an elite shooter. For how much I’ve defended Julius on here, he does not have a skill that is as elite as KAT’s shooting is. Combine that with the fact that KAT is a good post up player too, you have a great 1B to go with Brunson. The Knicks now have a chance at having the best offense in the league. I don’t think there was ever a chance with the previous roster that they could say and do that.

Also, given what the rest of the Knicks roster looks like, I think this is kind of the best personnel you could have to survive with KAT at the 5 defensively. Mikal, OG, Hart, Precious and McBride are all credible and versatile defenders. Which is why I’m struggling to decide if I actually just like the trade or don’t lol. Maybe that plays into how polarizing both Julius and Towns are. When you trade one polarizing player for another, it’s hard to make sense of the whole thing. Saying that didn’t really solve the issue that Julius presented of being a 4-5 tweener. KAT presents the same issue just in a different way. He’s bigger which helps but, his fundamentals and intangibles are just so poor on defense. He’s foul prone, his footwork is trash tier and now hasn’t played 5 on defense, full time, in 2 years… I just can’t see that being the anchor of our defense and playing him at the 4 creates other issues defensively too.

I appreciate the FO trying to get out in front of a potential problem in a proactive way but, I just wonder if there was a better risk to take if they remained patient with Julius.

[E-Balla]

I hate these insiders man... Basically people like this move because it fits their idea of what winning basketball looks like, not that it actually will lead to more winning basketball.

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Mind you here's the top 5 offenses since we signed Brunson:
1. Celtics - 120.5 ORTG
2. Kings - 118.2 ORTG
3. Knicks - 118.0 ORTG
4. Nuggets - 118.0 ORTG
5. Pacers - 117.8 ORTG

Basically according to everyone even people on here that love the trade we did this move so we can not improve offensively. That's always a nice feeling. But at least we have a C that shoots 3s now!

[snadler]

I agree with Leon, this team without Ihart was not good enough to beat Boston, especially with how injury prone Mitch is and still will be, Leon's plan has clearly been designed to beat Boston, and adding a stretch 5 along with 2 great defensive wings with OG and Bridges to contain tatum and brown was the only way to go

[TheGreenArrow]

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[Fat Kat]

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[BrOnXKing1]

I gotta give it to Leon. This was a hell of a long con. He built up a lot of good will before he left us capped out with no assets and with an oft injured flawed one way overpaid star. Usually that happens sooner lol

Leon did alot of good things here, hes the best gm we had in a long time. But the Kat deal has me a bit puzzled. Randle was an iron man outside of this freak shoulder injury and Donte is one of best 3 point shooters in the game. We would have had some of the best depth in the nba. We should have saw what this team could do. If it wasnt working out, than trade for Kat or someone else in the middle of the season

[SelbyCobra]

I don't care about fit at the moment, I trade Mitch for either of NOP's wings - Trey or Herb - in a heartbeat, and then sort things out later.

Either of those guys would be a steal for what Mitch is at this point. I'm not talking about the idealized version of what Mitch could still be if he makes changes, I'm talking about what he has proven to be 6 years into his NBA career.

[E-Balla]

Our offense was not the issue in the playoffs man. The Sixers cooked our defense, the Pacers cooked our defense, we're responding by crippling that unit.

[NYKinMIA]

he probably had that cap tucked away in his closet.

[KnixinSix]

I realize I have 14 pages to catch up to, so this is probably answered, but will KAT's salary truly push them over as it increases?

I'm not doubting you, I'm just wondering. Like, in past CBAs, there was salary that was taken on, that teams paid, that didn't count; pretty sure that was when teams re-signed their own FA. How the NBA wanted to encourage star players to stay on their original team etc.

So, as of right now, we know the Knicks are flirting with the 2nd apron, but haven't gone over. I'll assume they don't go over this season.

I know Aller is really good at managing this stuff so I'd be surprised if he was onboard with the Knicks making a move that pushes them over the 2nd apron, at the least, early in the deal - the only thing I could possibly think is that he caved and figured going over in KAT's final season or two might be a compromise he was willing to make. Obviously the ultimate decision is with Leon Rose so maybe Aller's advice got overruled.

If true, it's problematic, as Knicks will have to shed a low-mid to mid sized contract in a few years. Like a Hart sized one. Or Mitch.

Richard4444444 or BX#&H5J%8 usually understand this stuff. StLouisHawks guy too.

*edit - Was Brock Aller the voice in the Knicks FO alluded to as "Not everyone in Knicks FO likes the deal" ?

Just signing 3 vet minimums to fill the roster brings us over the second apron. That's why we're moving off Morris (been in the league too long his minimum is over 3 million), and why we're shopping Mitch.

But iHart was already gone, and if that's the fault of the FO, it was one that already happened. Not going to go over the long debate over it, but essentially the FO didn't sign him to a deal that secured bird rights (fail?) and then OKC did a large payday the Knicks couldn't beat, being capped out at 17 or 18 million per, and he took the payday, as usually happens.

After that, we've lost Donte. That's the difference in the bench. Other than Burks and Bogs, who were deadline additions and not that good.

I'm not exactly weeping over losing Bates-Diop, who got stuffed into this trade after being Bridges trade filler, though he would have been nice as a tall athletic solid pro.

I get Morris and Shamet got cut so the Knicks could S&T Jeffries, Brown etc as part of sending salary to Charlotte, but I think one of them comes back.

Which bench are we talking about?

The one that began last season when Knicks still had iHart, Grimes starting, and Donte off the bench, but not Mitch, because he was hurt? Damn, almost forgot that had IQ too

The trade deadline one where the Knicks briefly had Mitch, Bogs, Burks and Donte starting?

The theoretical one that never made it to this season with Donte, Bates-Diop, Mitch- but he's out half the year, Payne, Precious, Morris or Shamet (probably Morris)?

Hart & Precious on all the benches, except the start of last season


Now it's Precious, Hart, Deuce, Payne, with Morris or Shamet probably clearing waivers and coming back. That's a good bench.

Before this move we had assets to trade for other players. We could've easily picked up some depth while solidifying the C position I floated some names earlier. Hell Ayton can be added to the list of players I named too we seen him go to the Finals when properly motivated to play defense.

Yes this is in theory, but that's the point in stockpiling assets in the first place, to capitalize off their value. I don't think KAT is capitalizing off the value of the assets we got, I think KAT is a negative value asset. The Wolves should've gave us a pick and a bench player to take his contract off their hands not vice versa.

Jokic is a generational passer at C, probably the best all time, and is capable of spreading the floor by shooting 3s and operating as a league best passer from the perimeter. He's absolutely stretching the floor, though not the way people are saying KAT will.

AG does play almost entirely inside, that's true

We literally just watched Jokic lose both in the playoffs and Olympics because teams schemed to leave him wide open from deep and he smoked wide open looks consistently.

He shot 26% from deep in the playoffs last year, they're yapping about KAT's defense against him while not mentioning KAT only looked great defending him because he gave Jokic the 3 ball and he shot 4-21. That man can shoot, especially from midrange, he is not a shooter. He's low volume and he's occasionally hot but mostly cold.

Would you still make that Deuce/Kessler trade now?

What if the Knicks made that deal and then moved Mitch for a 4?

I would but according to others Utah didn't want it I guess. Mitch doesn't need to be moved to a 4 IMO we got OG and Hart and has Morris before this trade that's a good rotation at the 4 even without Jules.

Trust me, this stuff confuses the sh*t out of me, but since the Knicks are already 2nd apron, don't they have to trade Mitch for an equal value trade?

Meaning they can't clear cap space by trading Mitch

Or do you mean the Knicks will do a 1 for 2 or 1 for 3 trade with Mitch going out and 2 or 3 role players coming back?

It's only equal value if the trade doesn't bring you below the apron, and technically until we fill the last 3 roster spots we aren't over the 2nd apron so the 125% rule is still in play. I have no idea of what type of move we're doing to get Mitch out though so I can't say.

The season may very well prove this out (what will be an endless back and forth of opinions until then). Just chill and enjoy it!

[SelbyCobra]

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[E-Balla]

so the season is already over, right?

should I bother watching?

Y'all not real fans. We've sucked for 20 years and you need to think we're contenders to tune in?

[thebuzzardman]

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Anyone spot Tre Murphy there yet?

[snadler]

I gotta give it to Leon. This was a hell of a long con. He built up a lot of good will before he left us capped out with no assets and with an oft injured flawed one way overpaid star. Usually that happens sooner lol

Leon did alot of good things here, hes the best gm we had in a long time. But the Kat deal has me a bit puzzled. Randle was an iron man outside of this freak shoulder injury and Donte is one of best 3 point shooters in the game. We would have had some of the best depth in the nba. We should have saw what this team could do. If it wasnt working out, than trade for Kat or someone else in the middle of the season

Depth wasn't going to beat Boston.